the truth about electric cars

[Graham Butcher]

There is another issue with all of what does sound like exciting possibilities of using the cars battery pack in other ways, that is that it also needs some reasonably expensive hardware I believe that has to be fitted both to the car and the house which also needs to be factored into the equations. 

[Ootohere]

The social divide and the Worker getting assistance to run cars and private individuals.

 

I am lucky as in have a Motability Lease, so around £10 a day to have a large choice of vehicles on lease. 

Others are in my position.

 

But, 

not all will have a house where there can be charging, if there is maybe no smart meter or off peak tariffs, or Wall Charger, or Octopus incentives. 

 

Real world is BEV and maybe normal tariff at property if you use a 3 pin plug, or public AC charging slower or Rapid Faster.

Real world might be unless there are going to be financial savings why run a BEV unless you actually like doing so.  

I like doing so, i do  not mind sitting waiting to charge.   I do mind ignorant people that where money does not matter to them they hog chargers, care not about £10 or even £30 overstay charges.

Or even get to block bays and time so that they are not charging but getting away blocking / locked into the charger.

 

It is very much a p!ss take and a have and have nots.       I see people in big battery cars getting  40 minutes @ 35 pence a kWh and a £1 a minute over and they leave the car until at 100% as they NEED the FULL Battery in their big heavy / Large car they are travelling alone in.   Company is paying, their company or someone else's.

[Ootohere]

Ooop North there are Farmers, Fishermen and other business people registered as energy companies which is nice.

Many a single or multiple wind turbine or just solar, even hydro power and the tax man / general public helps it all happen. 

Paid to have a wind turbine on their land and even get grants for EV chargers. 

There are those with cars in garages and using as a Battery Pack, there are more and more building off grid properties or renovating, sometimes in the pretence they are Holiday Homes.

Nissan Leafs that could be used as storage were at a premium and now their daily or weekend cars can be a battery.

 

None of it is complicated, people have been doing it for years pre BEV,s.

Edited 2 March by Rooted

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

Ooop North there are Farmers, Fishermen and other business people registered as energy companies which is nice.

Many a single or multiple wind turbine or just solar, even hydro power and the tax man / general public helps it all happen. 

Paid to have a wind turbine on their land and even get grants for EV chargers. 

There are those with cars in garages and using as a Battery Pack, there are more and more building off grid properties or renovating, sometimes in the pretence they are Holiday Homes.

Nissan Leafs that could be used as storage were at a premium and now their daily or weekend cars can be a battery.

 

None of it is complicated, people have been doing it for years pre BEV,s.

 

Such a shame garages, used as garages to put cars in as in many houses in the States for example, when an EV charged in a garage, where the whole car including battery pack, could emerge all toastie from the garage and the range would probably be 20 or 30% more than what we see of a car charged outside in the cold on the drive.

 

Needs more tech to keep the battery warm when it is getting charged and ready to go out on the road. We learn that a decade ago on our Bluecars.

 

 

Edited 2 March by lol-lol

[J.R.]

5 hours ago, xman said:

Surprised you didn't include Brexit

 

Climate change caused the service ducts to collapse 🥴

 

Thats as good as my "Brexit ate my homework".

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

Climate change caused the service ducts to collapse 🥴  Thats as good as my "Brexit ate my homework".

 

Well something is going on a global scale. French rivers drying up so the power station cannot function properly etc and causing EDF to effectively go bankrupt and be bailed out by French taxpayers. 

 

[lol-lol]

7 hours ago, xman said:

How cheap is this Tesla electricity?

Not sure Id want to drive to my nearest Tesla charger, spend half an hour or more to top it up then drive home every 3 or 4 days at best. Oops I forgot about my freezer and fridge and home heating. Especially when I go out for the day, or go away for a few days.

Oh and what if I need to use the car to go anywhere a bit further? Yes another trip to the charger.

All to save £200, I don't think so.

Don't tell me your solar panels will help, not in winter or at night.

 

TESLA electricity can be as low as 29p per kWh at some Superchargers and then sometime it is even free like we had a few weeks ago.

With Octopus it can be super cheap like 7.5 or 9 p per kWh or even lower with Agile tariffs or even Octopus will pay you to take it.

Not hear of oil companies doing something similar,

 

My fridge freezer run off my home batteries and the fridge uses about 100w.  My home battery storage is currently 5 kWh but I aim to quadruple that this year so it certainly good enough for a week even without the solar panels adding power then, if I am working away, I would be able to put the EV in to topping the home batteries up when I get home with its V2H. 

 

It is not the saving of the £200 per year, that is just the base saving, it is acquiring electricity from sources in to ones vehicle and bringing it home like bread and milk.  We already do it charging phones and many other electrical device when travelling in an EV and bring home multiple lithium powered devices all topped up.  I have several portable speakers, torches, lanterns as well as smaller home batteries in the 100 to 500 wh range just in case the grid goes down either at home or when I am away from home. Survivalist basics.  

 

[Stonekeeper]

To disconnect your electricity supply, contact the National Grid. The job will typically cost you £500-£1,000, and take four to six weeks.

[wyx087]

7 hours ago, Stonekeeper said:

Model 3 Standard Range: £32.16 Per Charge

60 (battery size in kWh) x 80% = 48 kWh 

48 x 0.67 (cost in pence per kW) = £32.16

Model 3 Long Range & Performance: £44.22 Per Charge

82 x 80% = 66 kWh 

66 x 0.67 = £44.22

Model Y Standard Range: £32.16 Per Charge

60 x 80% = 48 kWh 

48 x 0.67 = £32.16

Model Y Long Range & Performance: £44.22 Per Charge

82 x 80% = 66 kWh 

66 x 0.67 = £44.22

 

 

Tesla owners who subscribe to the £10.99 per month membership will be charged around 53p per kWh to charge their car.

 

Bargain😂

 

https://www.vanarama.com/electric-leasing/cars/tesla-charging-cost-guide

 

That is not right at all.

 

Tesla owners do not need to pay the said subscription. The subscription is for non-Tesla to get same rates as Tesla vehicle.

 

For Tesla owners, cheapest is typically mid 30/kWh. Highs are ~50p/kWh.

 

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

This idea of plugging in a "Granny Cable" which I take is yet another term for an extension cable is also fraught with problems in its own right, it needs to maintain its protection against water ingress, as well as condensation from frost or snow causing internal damage to the connections.

"Granny cable" is referring to the cable that plugs into 3pin domestic socket. There is typically a bit of electronics just after the domestic 3-pin for safety protection. For example good ones monitor plug pin temperature to ensure the plug doesn't burn.

 

First month owning our Leaf, I'd charge using this cable and an interior socket, pass the cable out of a window.

Since then, I've installed an armoured cable rated up to 32 amps to a high quality outdoor double socket. As with all outdoor sockets, it is weatherproof even when plugged in. Apart from much easier doing lawn mowing, I can use those to charge my EV's in a pinch. (or something something tax ). 

 

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Once people are converted over to electric, you are then in the hands of profiteers and even if you have solar and or wind generators, there will be times when they are not producing sufficient power if indeed any at all,

Indeed, that's why I think future variable tariff will see bigger rate differences between windy sunny vs calm gloomy days.

 

So I think the more storage I own, the more "protected" I can be. V2H gives the cheapest and easiest method of upgrading the battery capacity. for example £15k for 60 kWh of storage in a second hand Leaf.

 

8 hours ago, xman said:

I'm sure there would be legal, insurance and tax implications. You might be even in breach of your contract with electricity companies or mortgage provider.

Public liability, safety certificates, declaring income to the taxman. If you rent your property you'd certainly be in breach of your rental contract.

Insurance - this is a grey area and depends on where the fire started. House insurance would cover house fire, car owner's insurance would also cover its car.

Electricity company - I pay for whatever I consume, can't see how letting other people use my charge point breach that.

Mortgage provider - Only if it constitutes as sub-letting. Lending house infrastructure to a neighbour = sub letting??

Public liability - I honestly don't know.

Safety - unless EV's catch fire, which might be a real concern based on internet videos 😜 

Declaring income to taxman - Only if profiteering by asking for more money, otherwise there is no income to declare.

 

I have done something similar when my neighbour got their EV and were on a long waiting list for charge point install. Let them charge about twice a week. Just read the number off my CT clamp energy monitor and they paid for whatever they consumed.

[Ootohere]

There is still a Tory Government 11 years on and the seemingly are Pro-EV,s so by now at least for England they should have everything clear to understand between Land Owners, Lease holders, Council,s / planning departments, Insurers and HMRC. 

Edited 3 March by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

I know that many completely dismiss anything that this YouTuber has to say but please, don't too quick to kick his latest video into the long grass and also ignore the banner on his thumbnail, it might be well worth your time to watch this one, it is NOT about bashing EV's at all despite the impression given on the thumbnail. We might find out in the future that there is some merit in what he is saying about all cars includes ICE.

 

 

[Ootohere]

It is the Truth about electric vehicles and the ICE BMW X5 he was driving about in.

Too heavy / big cars than really many need to kick about in if not a Police Armed Response vehicle which is needed incase heft is required against bad people.

 

They were supposed to be taxed on high emissions, but maybe not enough taxing if they are still being used and much cheapness to buy.

even the big tyres are not expensive. 

 

?

Are the BEV,s lasting only 3,5 or 10 years?    Well that is terrible if the truth of electric vehicles.   The DVLA will have the numbers and the SMMT, Office for National Statistics and maybe the Mail Online. 

Edited 5 March by Rooted

[wyx087]

A quick summary of the video would save many people loads of time. You'd also get what your discussion point across much better than typing 3 lines of excuses for the title and thumbnail.

[Ootohere]

The figures will be around for how many BEV,s are being scrapped every year and the insurers know how many are written off. 

[Graham Butcher]

Well I did not think that I would have to spell it out as the real clue is hidden in clear view and Geoff managed to pick up on this aspect and indeed most of his vide was centred around the TYRES, which all cars have. I really have zero idea why you picked up on the BEV,s lasting only 3,5 or 10 years?? and questioning it when it should also have been relatively clear where that was coming from, the Daily Mail and also the fact that it is becoming increasing common now for BEV's to be written OFF following many accidents, whereas cars like his Renault, 55 years old and still going because there is not the fear factor associated with them.

 

He was thrusting at the suggestion that there is no another agenda at play here, that as more BEV's hit the roads, there will less ICE cars, so they are now possibly gearing up for an attack on the pollution aspects coming from the tyres as BEV's are heavier than ICE cars and so it is being claimed that BEV's are far heavier on tyres than ICE cars, and that is something Geoff does not buy into because he has been checking forums etc and there are equal claims both saying that tyres do and do not last as long.

 

You really need to stop seeing every thing as being anti and look between the cracks and reading between the lines, which Geoff had already done for you in that very same video. 

[Graham Butcher]

29 minutes ago, Rooted said:

The figures will be around for how many BEV,s are being scrapped every year and the insurers know how many are written off. 

None of the figures you quoted are a surprise, given that EV's (including hybrids and BEVs) only account for around 7% of all cars, so be simple deduction, it must follow that 93% are ICE and are also going to be far more older cars among them that are being scrapped. Ford Focus, been around since 1999, Vauxhall Astra, since 1980, Vauxhall Corsa, 1983, Ford Fiesta since 1976, VW Golf 1974, Vauxhall Zafira 1999, and lastly, Renault Clio, 1990, all self-explanatory so they will be the most scrapped cars in 2023 by default.

[Graham Butcher]

Lets see if we can get any sensible response to this article then where the rise in SUV and 4x4s and pickup's is causing more deaths of pedestrians then normal family type cars, shall we.

 

Its only a 3:32s video so is not taking up much of your time @wyx087

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingas****/comments/1b7d59m/grille_height_kills_509_people_in_the_us_every/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 

Edited 5 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

@Graham Butcher  I know there are millions of those cars.   It was an example of the DVLA know what is scrapped, as we all surely already know.

The point is of the less than a million BEV,s in the UK registered they will know how many are scrapped after 3, 5 or 10 years.

 

What i would like is New news, not the same stuff that we have seen and read and heard for years now.   And the 'i am not sure' but!.

 

Lots of people are not sure, but keep not bothering to find out. 

 

As to SUV,s , 4x4,s and Pickups, the answer is stop driving them then, or stop killing people while driving them, or stop going to the USA where you might get killed by them, or in a mass shooting.  

Edited 5 March by Rooted

[Ootohere]

@Graham Butcher   i picked on a point or 2 from Geoff.  because how often has the tyre thing been discussed. 

?

Do you remember what you post, what you discuss and how often it is the same Truth about EV,s that really often is the Truth about big vehicles being driven with one or 2 people only in them nearly all the time.

Often company cars with tax payer assistance when the big cars with big tyres are not necessary for the business use.

 

Looks like the HMRC Double Cab Pickup / dual use loop hole is going to be knocked on the head where the Lifestyle vehicle never has a pallet in it or actually any stuff carried to do with the business / trader using it, or parking it up during the working day but used for their weekend / leisure use.

Edited 5 March by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

10 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@Graham Butcher  I know there are millions of those cars.   It was an example of the DVLA know what is scrapped, as we all surely already know.

The point is of the less than a million BEV,s in the UK registered they will know how many are scrapped after 3, 5 or 10 years.

 

What i would like is New news, not the same stuff that we have seen and read and heard for years now.   And the 'i am not sure' but!.

 

Lots of people are not sure, but keep not bothering to find out. 

 

As to SUV,s , 4x4,s and Pickups, the answer is stop driving them then, or stop killing people while driving them, or stop going to the USA where you might get killed by them, or in a mass shooting.  

Well that is not how your message came across ref the DVLA and scrapped cars. As to new news, well to me that was new news with regard to the switching of the focus (pun intended) from tailpipe emissions to that of tyre emissions to try and pry us away from our cars, so sorry for that.

[Graham Butcher]

5 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Looks like the HMRC Double Cab Pickup / dual use loop hole is going to be knocked on the head where the Lifestyle vehicle never has a pallet in it or actually any stuff carried to do with the business / trader using it, or parking it up during the working day but used for their weekend / leisure use.

Is it? The last I heard was that following pressure about this aspect, the government was backing away from changing the tax loophole as it would seriously impact many businesses as a result.

[Ootohere]

There will still be cars about in your lifetime and mine.

 

What you seem to miss is that never once has a video from Geoff that you think tells us something had anything in it not already touched on, discussed, linked to or posted about in this section, 

 

@Graham Butcher  save me looking please, have you anything you can link to on the Pickup thing, or where did you hear it.

You might well be right, but we hear a load of sh!te daily. 

Edited 5 March by Rooted

[Ootohere]

OK, Found it,  major U-turn.   Not White Van man they can keep on putting their gear in them.  Sole Trader, Jet-Skiers.Mountain bikers, Horse rides. 

Edited 5 March by Rooted

[Graham Butcher]

7 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@Graham Butcher  save me looking please, have you anything you can link to on the Pickup thing, or where did you hear it.

You might well be right, but we hear a load of sh!te daily. 

I did have something, I'll see if I can find it again, I never posted it because I honestly did not think anyone would be interested.

Oh I see you have found something on it already.

Edited 5 March by Graham Butcher

[Ootohere]

Thanks,

it took 4 key words on google.