Shame on the UK Government & Government Ministers & the Tory Party for the arrangement they are coming to with Rwanda.

[Ootohere]

This £5 million a day is interesting.   

 

***Someone is getting the money.  Surely paying taxes on profits from the £5 million that tax payers are shelling out daily.***

Money going into the UK Economy unless it is going to Off Shore TAX HAVENS.

Or to France, Rwanda or other countries that the UK wants to carry out contracts for it.

 

Councils just in England spend many millions annually, now billions  to put Homeless people in families in temporary accommodation while there is plenty Banked Land owned by financial institutions and plenty unemployed with a trade or skill that could be building accommodation that is not temporary.

The same happens in Scotland and very likely just the same in Wales & Northern Ireland.

 

Asylum seekers and refugees have been in pretty inhuman conditions for years now.

Hotels, hostels and private rented accommodation.

 

Some hotel rooms not at £19 or £29 or even £98 a night but hundreds of quid a night.

The UK Tax Payers are being ripped off and the UK Government allows this to happen.

 

Refugees & Asylum seekers can work and should be allowed to and to build houses and flats and hostels etc for them and for the country in general. 

 

Slum Landlords and some of those are the very supporters of the Political Parties and Politicians. 

 

It is not only Refugees and Asylum Seekers in the 4 countries of the UK that live in unsuitable and unhealthy accommodation it is many people.

6th richest country in the UK supposedly. 

 

This Multi Millionaire might well be concerned.

  Maybe not concerned enough to use his experience in property to be involved in affordable accommodation for the UK population.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56321969

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58781447

 

 

 

 

PS.

Church / Religious Groups in the UK need to look art land and property they own and that could be used to build on for homes, schools , hospitals etc. 

They need to look at how their money is used or could be used in a much less wasteful manner.

Edited 17 April, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

58 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Andrew Bridgen MP says he feels that the Archbishop of Canterbury 'Is not in step with the views of the country'..

https://news.sky.com/story/priti-patel-was-warned-it-is-highly-uncertain-sending-migrants-to-rwanda-will-act-as-a-deterrent-12592136

Is that the same Andrew Bridges as this Andrew Bridgen who, according to a Judge, lied under oath, behaved in an abusive, arrogant and aggressive way, and was so dishonest that his claims about a multimillion-pound family dispute could not be taken at face value?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dishonest-mp-bridgen-lied-about-conduct-in-family-dispute-hplmlxmmx

I saw that Rwanda will be kicking orphans out of a hostel to make room for the people who will be given a one way ticket to Rwanda for 'processing'.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/rwanda-genocide-orphans-booted-out-26728311?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

I had an idea for a TV show. It's like where MPs go and live with poor families for a week but go and spend a week being processed in Rwanda. 
I think it'll be a ratings hit.

[Ootohere]

I look forward to the revealing of cost / expenses spent already with Civil Servants from the Home Office or Foreign Office's time already spent in Rwanda. 

Also the cost of the UK politicians visits so far.  Flights, accommodations, security etc. 

There seems to be a fair few that say they have been recently and have seen how things are in Rwanda. 

[leckman]

All fair comments,but again these [millions]of refugees are not going to go away.Do we just turn a blind eye like the French are doing daily. The fifty odd million we just paid them to stop the boats has had no effect what so ever.Just been a story on Sky News where a woman and her kid’s fleeing domestic abuse has been stuck in a slum for the past 2 years.If she had just landed in a dinghy off Dover she would be in a 3/4 star hotel by now.These refugees are not bad people for wanting a better life,the UK are not bad people for saying sorry,we can not take all the worlds poor .Six hundred landed yesterday,two hundred odd today at this rate we will run out of hotel accommodation.Just saying.

[Ootohere]

Millions of refugees do not have to go away.  Scotland wants a few million as there are not enough working age people or people working.

 

So does England need workers as there are shortages.   Millions of jobs are needing filled in the UK. 

 

Millions of homes need building.  

 

 

 

Edited 17 April, 2022 by roottoot

[leckman]

Fair comment again but are there millions of homes to accommodate everyone ?.Liverpool was one of the first council’s to take in the Afghan refugees.They have been placed in hotel’s down by John Lennon airport which is an enormous industrial estate.Not family friendly but again,better than back in Afghanistan.

[Breezy_Pete]

I'm starting to worry about the number of illegal immigrant apostrophes more than anything...

[Ootohere]

The UK Prime Minister is off this week doing a deal where more can legally migrate to the UK as long as they bring money & an understanding of the English language and they will vote Conservative.

Liz Truss will be doing a deal there where the UK exports apostrophes and India can import anything that they fancy.  

[cheezemonkhai]

It’s interesting that it appears someone did tell the Home Secretary it’s not value for money but the minister overruled them.

 

If it works then it worked and if it doesn’t the I guess we’ll be needing a new Home Secretary. Upsides either way 😂

[Ootohere]

?

Did they not say that it could not be shown as being value for money?  Different thing. 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61126360

 

So Boris might as well be way this week.

Papers tomorrow and Partygate will cause more Tories to be touching cloth.   Boris is just a party animal. 

 

[@Lee]

One point that isn't being mentioned, from what I've read from various journos and legal types on Twitter is that this is being sold to the public as refugees will be sent to Rwanda for 'processing'. This appears to be inaccurate.

From what I can tell, people will still be making perilous crossings from France (or wherever via other means - all of which aren't illegal) and then deported to Rwanda with no chance of returning to the UK. I hope that's incorrect.

IIRC over 75% of claims for asylum in the UK are approved as was Patels family's claim years ago. This system back then would have seen her own family being sent from Uganda to Rwanda. Maybe they should have just gone there in the first place.

[PetrolDave]

I still struggle with the fact that the people risking their lives to cross the English Channel in small overcrowded and unseaworthy craft have set off from countries that are 'safe' from a human rights point of view (France, Belgium, The Netherlands).

 

So why should the UK be under any moral or international obligation to allow them residence here when the country they have just come from will provide them a safe place to live?

 

It seems to me this last leg of their journey is about noting more than a perception that the UK will be a better economic choice, and surely that makes them economic migrants not refugees?

 

I accept and understand that others will have different views, but don't try to 'woke' me as a racist or other derogatory term because that I most certainly am not - whatever your opinion.

[StevesTruck]

14 hours ago, roottoot said:

Millions of refugees do not have to go away.  Scotland wants a few million as there are not enough working age people or people working.

 

So does England need workers as there are shortages.   Millions of jobs are needing filled in the UK. 

 

Millions of homes need building.  

 

 

 

 

Now my issue there is, I live in one of the biggest veg growing areas in the UK, which also suffers with unemployment and low wages.

 

I'm yet to see an English-language advert for veg pickers. The problem there is the growers are hooked on using cheap, disposable migrant labour rather than making it a half decent job people would want to do.

[Ootohere]

@PetrolDaveOr simply they can speak, read and write english.  No idea why so many from Commonwealth countries can freely come to the UK.  Time that some bogged off back to their home countries.     @StevesTruckwas there no call out at the start of Lockdown for anyone to come on down and work?  There are plenty UK areas where anyone is welcome to go work locally.  It is unbelievable how poorly people will try to get fit to do the very hard manual work.  Live in mobile homes or travel very early to the work.   Agricultural workers are well paid in my area.  Well accommodated as well. 

Edited 18 April, 2022 by roottoot

[mac11irl]

2 minutes ago, StevesTruck said:

problem there is the growers are hooked on using cheap, disposable migrant labour rather than making it a half decent job people would want to do

 

but then everyone would struggle to get cheap veg as the prices would have to go up.... 

 

id pay more for my fruit and veg if meant those growing picking and packing had a better quality if life, but thousands just want it cheap as possible.

[Ootohere]

Anyone can go to the Job Centre Plus and say I want a job.  Farms have websites with how to apply. They have email or a post code and address, phone number.    They will employ reliable and productive people but get fed up training people that can not be bothered to see out a week.  

Edited 18 April, 2022 by roottoot

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, PetrolDave said:

I still struggle with the fact that the people risking their lives to cross the English Channel in small overcrowded and unseaworthy craft have set off from countries that are 'safe' from a human rights point of view (France, Belgium, The Netherlands).

 

So why should the UK be under any moral or international obligation to allow them residence here when the country they have just come from will provide them a safe place to live?

There's no rule or law which says people must settle in the first safe country they get to. That's a myth.
Why do they cross the channel to seek asylum in the UK? Because there is no mechanism for refugees to claim asylum for the UK outside the UK.
 

Edited 18 April, 2022 by @Lee

[john999boy]

4 minutes ago, @Lee said:

There's no rule or law which says people must settle in the first safe country they get to. That's a myth.

But they're no longer escaping persecution etc if they decide that the first 'free' country isn't quite to their liking are they?

[@Lee]

4 minutes ago, john999boy said:

But they're no longer escaping persecution etc if they decide that the first 'free' country isn't quite to their liking are they?

I don't think they get to somewhere like France, stay a bit to see if it's for them and then move to another country, John. I reckon most have a clear idea of where they want to get to. UK takes far fewer than some other countries.

[ApertureS]

27 minutes ago, john999boy said:

But they're no longer escaping persecution etc if they decide that the first 'free' country isn't quite to their liking are they?

If you get the offer of staying in a hotel for free for the night... are you gonna walk to the first ****ty hotel and stay there for the night, or you gonna walk a bit further and find a decent hotel that includes dinner and breakfast....

 

22 minutes ago, @Lee said:

I reckon most have a clear idea of where they want to get to. UK takes far fewer than some other countries.

UK takes far fewer but we are also a much smaller land mass compared to other EU countries.

 

 

 

I think the issue it comes down to is nothing to do with the EU, Brexit, Migrants. It simply comes down to, if you make yourself a ripe apple thats free to be picked, people are going to pick it. People are passing through other countries because it doesnt meet their needs, so we need the same policies as these countries that make them undesirable in certain situations to prevent over migration, simple as that.

[@Lee]

18 minutes ago, ApertureS said:

 

 

UK takes far fewer but we are also a much smaller land mass compared to other EU countries.

 

 

 

I think the issue it comes down to is nothing to do with the EU, Brexit, Migrants. It simply comes down to, if you make yourself a ripe apple thats free to be picked, people are going to pick it. People are passing through other countries because it doesnt meet their needs, so we need the same policies as these countries that make them undesirable in certain situations to prevent over migration, simple as that.

 

That first sentence seems to be a variation of 'Britain is full'. Population density of Rwanda is higher than that of the UK. 

"if you make yourself a ripe apple thats free to be picked, people are going to pick it."

Asylum seekers in Germany receive €354/month ( £293) In the UK they receive £5.66/ day ( x 30 = £169/ month. 

Asylum seekers in German are permitted to do charitable work and earn up to €84/ month on top of their €354 before their claims have even been finalised. In the UK, asylum  seekers aren't permitted to work. 

I don't know what the details are for other countries. 

Brexit made it more difficult for the UK to remove asylum seekers. 

[Ootohere]

The Tories want people to produce ID to vote in elections but not ID cards for everyone.

 

Scotland has it's own Tax System (Not NI yet though).

Scotland has started it's own Social Security System so it is maybe time that the Westminister Government stopped dictating who can migrate to or get asylum in Scotland and work.

 

If everyone did need to have a NI Number, a NI & PAYE card and Picture ID to be able to work and to use services it would be much easier to actually know who is in the UK and working and using the services.  

[@Lee]

A letter by Enver Solomon, Chief Executive of the Refugee Council to The Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fc523544-be71-11ec-b4e3-203ad1be3cbc?shareToken=b0ea66ae99074c83ade5f863d8fe3c96

Screenshot in case you hit a paywall.

[ApertureS]

18 minutes ago, @Lee said:

 

That first sentence seems to be a variation of 'Britain is full'. Population density of Rwanda is higher than that of the UK. I dont agree with the Rwanda situation at all, i was comparing to say Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Poland. Rwanda is a very densely packed country already.

Im not saying we shouldn't bring anyone into our country at all, Just that if a country like France takes on 100,000 people, it would have a very different impact compared to the UK taking on 100,000 people (France has a 230% less dense land mass compared to the UK.)

"if you make yourself a ripe apple thats free to be picked, people are going to pick it."

Asylum seekers in Germany receive €354/month ( £293) In the UK they receive £5.66/ day ( x 30 = £169/ month. You got the source for these figures - and Im assuming this is just a single kind of income, does this take into account any form of local income like housing, council tax, bills, food? not sure on this one so the source would be nice

Asylum seekers in German are permitted to do charitable work and earn up to €84/ month on top of their €354 before their claims have even been finalised. In the UK, asylum  seekers aren't permitted to work. Another silly thing in the UK, not saying people are lazy but if you literally arent allowed to work, to some that could be an incentive - im definitely not saying all. Plus once you have refugee status in the UK you are allowed to work and can apply for standard benefits.

A quick look on the UK gov site shows that youll get £40 per person per week + free housing and bills. The later part alone has to be worth over £1000 a month depending on location and property size

I don't know what the details are for other countries. 

Brexit made it more difficult for the UK to remove asylum seekers. 100% agree and correct, Brexit was not the solution ever.

Replies in bold ^

[Ootohere]

If it is England that is supposedly densely populated it is not actually.

The places not densely populated are where Tories want fracking carried out.

 

Scotland is not densely populated.  The issue is where there are lots of job vacancies nobody wants to go live at or there is no accommodation.

Too many Holiday Homes & Air B&B's being an issue.

 

People want to go and holiday and have fun and places can not open or stay in business because they can not get staff.  

 

Hundreds of thousands have left the UK pre and post Brexit.  

 

The UK Government never know who has been in and out of the UK because they have never had control of borders and stil do not from those in the Irish Republic / EU that can just cross into the UK.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/56846637

 

The UK Government  knows how to make people unwelcome. 

Edited 18 April, 2022 by roottoot