I’m look to purchase a Superb estate (currently a Octavia owner) and 4x4 versions often pop up in searches.

Are these variants worth getting? I’m assuming extra servicing should have been undertaken and of course going forward. What should I be looking for in the service history, i.e gearbox and diff?

And when test driving, any particular way to drive it  to highlight any problems?

Are there known issues? And are they expensive if they go wrong?

 

TIA

Hard driving them on a road to know if the system is working.

You want to see Service Invoices & Receipts.

 

You will need to be looking for the Haldex having been serviced every 3 years / 30,000 miles or sooner and not just as a Skoda Main Dealer might do which is an oil change and not a clean up, filter change or clean up.

That is just an extra £100 or a bit more when getting the car serviced anyway.

You will want good tyres fitted and changed front to rear every year or sooner. 

 

An idea of Servicing recommendations.

 

37 minutes ago, roottoot said:

Hard driving them on a road to know if the system is working.

You want to see Service Invoices & Receipts.

 

You will need to be looking for the Haldex having been serviced every 3 years / 30,000 miles or sooner and not just as a Skoda Main Dealer might do which is an oil change and not a clean up, filter change or clean up.

That is just an extra £100 or a bit more when getting the car serviced anyway.

You will want good tyres fitted and changed front to rear every year or sooner. 

 

An idea of Servicing recommendations.

 

 

Many thanks for this, roottoot.

Basically have extra cost of Haldex servicing and extra fuel (due to extra weight).  You also need to swap the tyres around (can’t take the just wear out 2 and never move them approach).

 

Having said the above, do get better traction, useful if you live in the mountains, but there is a question about if it is much improvement over having dedicated summer and winter tyres.  When new the 4x4 system costs a premium of (roughly) £2000, but for much less can by set of winter wheels and tyres.

 

I never really understand why so many in UK buy the 4x4 version, then leave it on summer tyres all year.  

 

If there are more available unsold secondhand it suggests people subsequently realise they bought something they choose not to keep.  If there are lots available you have to think, why are they still unsold, whereas the 2wd have already sold.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

filter change

There is no filter to be changed on Haldex Gen 5. Only a strainer to clean up on the Haldex pump. 😉

But as you said, this is rarely done by Skoda dealers because not required in the workshop manual. You have to ask for it, but it’s hard to know if it has really been done. 🤔

@Sinbad1900 FYI there’s a « how to » guide to change Haldex oil and to clean the pump strainer in the « Superb how to » forum. 

At least to know, if you don’t intend to do it yourself. 😉

I have the TDI 190cv 4x4 and I am happy, except for the PPD suspension and that it makes more than 7 liters on average.

3 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

I never really understand why so many in UK buy the 4x4 version, then leave it on summer tyres all year.  

 

Well, I don't think I'm too far from you if you're in West Wilts, and I think for me in the winters we get down here it's either/or as regards 4x4 and winter tyres, in that winter tyres, whilst revelatory on a FWD car, don't make as much difference on a 4WD car. The last time we had bad snow here my then 4WD car on 'all season' tyres struggled, and I daresay anything short of snow chains would have made life difficult. 

I had an octy Vrs 2wd manual then went for a 4x4 superb estate 190 with a remap. 235bhp and 540nm. When I first brought it before it was mapped there was an issue with the haldex. Plates had turned to blamange so gad them replaced under warantee. Then had it mapped and did 110k trouble free miles but must have oil changed and pump out every 30k. Be about 100 quid. I used to do mine myself every 20k and was always mucky. 
I now have a 272 with a remap and will do the same. Just needs a bit of tinkering.. will also use more fuel due to extra weight but not a huge difference. In the wet and winter it’s fantastic and in the snow it’s epic 

I ran an Octy 1.0 TSI for three and a half years and then a combi for another year or so. I swapped that out for the current 4x4 150TDI Superb Combi. 

 

The difference in the snow and ice I drive in for half the year is massive between FWD and 4x4. The 4x4 is a giggle when you push it, it has grip for days and it's incredibly stable; I've "only" driven it for around 12 thousand miles last winter on winter tyres and I can't really fault it. Well, I could, but I'm splitting hairs then about how quickly the power is shifted to the back and when ESP kicks in - it behaves differently to the wife's Suzuki but is more predictable. It's like a train in poor conditions and you can feel the power being pushed around easily on third-gear corners on gravel now in the summer. And when the weather is good, I'm hitting 50mpg. It's quiet and a real mile-muncher. Too big for town IMO.

 

I have an average of less than 6l/100, around 47mpg. Would I buy another? Definitely. Very little slows it down, unless it's 10-15cm of unploughed snow at -10C with winters on. But then maybe 40-45mph, is appropriate not 50+... very happy with it. 

 

An FWD would probably get me 10-15% better consumption. However, it will struggle in the wet to get the power down, never mind in the ice and snow, and I have that starting again in less than 2 months. 

I've got the current 4x4 200TDI DSG Estate.

 

If you are going to be towing, it is the version to have, the extra grip the system affords is brilliant, especially when trying to shunt the caravan about on gravel or grass! That said, driving on dirt tracks is very fun.

 

Economy wise, I find round town it is abysmal - even using eco mode in not particularly heavy traffic I'm lucky to be in the 40's and if I am it's the low 40's. It's a different story on the motorway though, lock the cruise control off at 70mph in any mode and it delivers in excess of 56mpg - and still over 50mpg at 80 (ahem). That would probably be better in eco mode driving without cruise control - I've noticed that the system doesn't go out of gear and to idle when coasting with cruise control on in eco mode - massively affecting economy.

 

The Good

- From a rolling start or overtaking you will embarrass most things on the road.

- Acres of space.

- Far more grip than a FWD variant.

- Confidence in bad weather.

 

The Bad

- Bogs down from a standing start, not sure if this is the 4x4 or the DSG.

- The suspension, lovely and comfortable in a straight line, your passengers are in for a roller coaster ride on bumpy/twisty roads. Big lean!

 

Andy

Edited 8 August, 20223 yr by boff180

Before you buy your 280 or 272 make sure its not the less desirable version without exhaust flaps ....

On 09/08/2022 at 21:13, Nick_H said:

Before you buy your 280 or 272 make sure its not the less desirable version without exhaust flaps ....

How do you determine this Nick?

Have paid a deposit on a 2018 (68) 272. 
 

Thanks. 

5 hours ago, dunc69 said:

How do you determine this Nick?

Have paid a deposit on a 2018 (68) 272. 
 

Thanks. 

Sorry dunc it’s kind of an in joke they are all great cars 😀

On 05/08/2022 at 13:51, SurreyJohn said:

Basically have extra cost of Haldex servicing and extra fuel (due to extra weight).  You also need to swap the tyres around (can’t take the just wear out 2 and never move them approach).

 

Having said the above, do get better traction, useful if you live in the mountains, but there is a question about if it is much improvement over having dedicated summer and winter tyres.  When new the 4x4 system costs a premium of (roughly) £2000, but for much less can by set of winter wheels and tyres.

 

I never really understand why so many in UK buy the 4x4 version, then leave it on summer tyres all year.  

 

If there are more available unsold secondhand it suggests people subsequently realise they bought something they choose not to keep.  If there are lots available you have to think, why are they still unsold, whereas the 2wd have already sold.

 

 

 

 

For most UK people a serious 4x4 isn’t a Superb. In 3 years I haven’t been stranded or stuck by winter weather on summer tyres. However if you want to leave junctions and roundabouts safely, this car puts my former GTI and Octavia VRS in the shade, no wheel spin in the wet or dry. Haldex service at a garage was ‘only’ £90 and tyres lasted about the same as my VRS. If Autotrader is anything to go by I imagine the ratio of 4x4 for sale is probably similar to the 2WD versions. 

A Haldex Oil change done properly at a Garage is maybe around £90,  but at a Skoda Main Dealership on the Fixed Servicing & Maintenance is might be only £85.

 

The issue is that can cost your lots when that Haldex Service does not get done properly and they are just changing the oil.  

Skoda Workshops that will do a proper strip and clean and oil change sometimes charge over £100. 

A belated thanks to everyone that have responded - definitely food for thought. 

Main/Common issues to look out for are:

 

Waterpump/Thermostat housing leak - c £500 - £700 to fix

DCC Shock absorbers misting - c £1200 - £1500 to fix

 

On 14/08/2022 at 07:06, Redboy said:

For most UK people a serious 4x4 isn’t a Superb. In 3 years I haven’t been stranded or stuck by winter weather on summer tyres. However if you want to leave junctions and roundabouts safely, this car puts my former GTI and Octavia VRS in the shade, no wheel spin in the wet or dry. Haldex service at a garage was ‘only’ £90 and tyres lasted about the same as my VRS. If Autotrader is anything to go by I imagine the ratio of 4x4 for sale is probably similar to the 2WD versions. 

I would say this is the thing. The Haldex is quite poor on snow etc, not a patch on my previous car which was a Subaru with limited slip diffs all round. However it does make a huge difference in everyday town driving in the wet - no annoying wheelspin when making a "spirited" entrance to a roundabout from stationary, etc etc. When I go back to driving our other car which is mini cooper s (FWD), the wheelspin thing is very annoying.

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

The Haldex is quite poor on snow etc, not a patch on my previous car which was a Subaru with limited slip diffs all round. However it does make a huge difference in everyday town driving in the wet - no annoying wheelspin when making a "spirited" entrance to a roundabout from stationary, etc etc. When I go back to driving our other car which is mini cooper s (FWD), the wheelspin thing is very annoying.

Poor on snow? I disagree. Different to a locked, limited slip diff car? Yes. Will most people notice the difference if they're using the correct tyres for the conditions and driving on treated roads? No. 

 

Splitting the hair: the Haldex will by definition wait for some slip before diverting power. It's not a viscous coupling where there's always 5% of power going to the rear wheels, but it's more efficient as a result. It's not a synchronous system where 50-50 splits are the norm, like the Subaru, nor is it a Torsen mechanical diff which will be faster in pushing power around but also less efficient. 

 

Having written all of that, I've been driving two different systems this past winter and the differences are shades of grey. They're both a world better than the FWD, spikes or no (all cars currently run Hakka 8 spikes in different sizes). What conditions? I've been driving to the office, which is now 400kms away, and we moved house from south to north, 300kms further north. I've plastered so much snow on the rear hatch that I've had to dig my way in to the handle to open it. Plate has been unreadable many times because of snow. I've put well over 16000 kms on the Superb in some varying, sometimes absolutely atrocious conditions, down to -28C, with regular snow and ice from October through to late April; I changed to summers again beginning of May and had winters on already in mid-October. I'm not looking for the ultimate in grip: I want something that gets me from A to B rapidly and without drama. The Superb pushes those buttons really rather well.

The electrical gizmos in my wife's Suzuki S-Cross mean that the Auto pushes too much power too late to the rear wheels, so it's unnervingly unpredictable. Setting to Lock and Snow mode - so power 50-50 and front / rear the same rotation rate - makes a huge difference and it's much more predictable as a result. The viscous coupling in the previous Swift was faster to react and better to a point, but in normal (even normal winter) driving, the difference is nigh-on undetectable unless you're looking for it. ESP on the Swift felt like it was reading your mind, the Superb's lets things get a little more lairy, the S-Cross and A2 systems just feel slow.

The Superb does a great job of shifting some power to the rear when it's needed and ESP an even better one of limiting the excesses of slides. My personal favourites are definitely the ESP Sport mode in the Superb and ESP off / snow / lock in the S-Cross. Both are eminently controllable with a sensitive right foot. Flick, destabilize, add power, sliiiiiide, dab of oppo, and we're good. Feeling like a hero at 20km/h  I will be trying to push the Superb on the ice track this winter if we get an event set up, I really want to push the limits harder. But from here, as a long term winter driver being relatively new to 4x4 in its many forms, this is a game changer for stability and I don't want to revert to FWD.

 

There was a grand total of one time last winter when I actually felt I had to seriously slow down as the car was dancing. We'd had 10-12cm of snow at around -10C and it was essentially unploughed on the main road to Jyväskylä south of Suonenjoki. Speeds down to 60-65km/h and we were good. Further south, where the ploughs had been through, 80km/h was possible again. I'll repeat myself: Poor on snow? No. It's a stunningly good all-weather cruiser for long distances. I regularly do 250mile one-way commutes - so 800km in one day - and it's quiet, comfortable, and eminently capable, come rain, ice, snow or glom of nit.

2 hours ago, brettikivi said:

Poor on snow? I disagree. Different to a locked, limited slip diff car? Yes. Will most people notice the difference if they're using the correct tyres for the conditions and driving on treated roads? No. 

 

Splitting the hair: the Haldex will by definition wait for some slip before diverting power. It's not a viscous coupling where there's always 5% of power going to the rear wheels, but it's more efficient as a result. It's not a synchronous system where 50-50 splits are the norm, like the Subaru, nor is it a Torsen mechanical diff which will be faster in pushing power around but also less efficient. 

 

Having written all of that, I've been driving two different systems this past winter and the differences are shades of grey. They're both a world better than the FWD, spikes or no (all cars currently run Hakka 8 spikes in different sizes). What conditions? I've been driving to the office, which is now 400kms away, and we moved house from south to north, 300kms further north. I've plastered so much snow on the rear hatch that I've had to dig my way in to the handle to open it. Plate has been unreadable many times because of snow. I've put well over 16000 kms on the Superb in some varying, sometimes absolutely atrocious conditions, down to -28C, with regular snow and ice from October through to late April; I changed to summers again beginning of May and had winters on already in mid-October. I'm not looking for the ultimate in grip: I want something that gets me from A to B rapidly and without drama. The Superb pushes those buttons really rather well.

The electrical gizmos in my wife's Suzuki S-Cross mean that the Auto pushes too much power too late to the rear wheels, so it's unnervingly unpredictable. Setting to Lock and Snow mode - so power 50-50 and front / rear the same rotation rate - makes a huge difference and it's much more predictable as a result. The viscous coupling in the previous Swift was faster to react and better to a point, but in normal (even normal winter) driving, the difference is nigh-on undetectable unless you're looking for it. ESP on the Swift felt like it was reading your mind, the Superb's lets things get a little more lairy, the S-Cross and A2 systems just feel slow.

The Superb does a great job of shifting some power to the rear when it's needed and ESP an even better one of limiting the excesses of slides. My personal favourites are definitely the ESP Sport mode in the Superb and ESP off / snow / lock in the S-Cross. Both are eminently controllable with a sensitive right foot. Flick, destabilize, add power, sliiiiiide, dab of oppo, and we're good. Feeling like a hero at 20km/h  I will be trying to push the Superb on the ice track this winter if we get an event set up, I really want to push the limits harder. But from here, as a long term winter driver being relatively new to 4x4 in its many forms, this is a game changer for stability and I don't want to revert to FWD.

 

There was a grand total of one time last winter when I actually felt I had to seriously slow down as the car was dancing. We'd had 10-12cm of snow at around -10C and it was essentially unploughed on the main road to Jyväskylä south of Suonenjoki. Speeds down to 60-65km/h and we were good. Further south, where the ploughs had been through, 80km/h was possible again. I'll repeat myself: Poor on snow? No. It's a stunningly good all-weather cruiser for long distances. I regularly do 250mile one-way commutes - so 800km in one day - and it's quiet, comfortable, and eminently capable, come rain, ice, snow or glom of nit.

Just picking up on a few points, firstly the recent generations of Haldex (including gen 5 on the Superb III) don’t need to sense wheelspin before engaging the Haldex clutch, they use data from the engine and transmission to predict when the front wheels might slip, and operate the Haldex clutch accordingly.

 

I live in Scotland which is a bit snowy sometimes, but not that bad. So I am very naughty and keep summer tyres on all year round. I did this with the Subaru and never regretted it. I have a caravan which is down a bank in the Highlands. Subaru never a problem, Skoda struggles to get up in snow. I have to drive over a mountain pass, never had a problem in the Subaru, in the Skoda I nearly came to a stop with the traction control working overtime on all 4 wheels!

 

You are of course correct that the penalty for “proper” AWD is poor efficiency. My point is only that the Haldex system, whilst definitely better than nothing, isn’t as good as “proper” AWD when trying to get traction in snow or muddy field.

We come back to No Traction No Action.  Or not of the kind you want. 

Is a FWD car on the correct tyres for the job better than a AWD / 4x4 / Part Time AWD on the wrong tyres?

 

We know the answer to that when it is snowy or icy and we have thew right tyres on and drive past some very capable fat lumps of prestige cars on the wrong tyres. 

Edited 22 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

On 13/08/2022 at 22:15, Nick_H said:

Sorry dunc it’s kind of an in joke they are all great cars 😀

Errr, no. I’ve been assured by a certain QW that flapped cars are now achieving £750-1000 over non-flapped cars… 😁

11 hours ago, Awesam said:

Main/Common issues to look out for are:

 

Waterpump/Thermostat housing leak - c £500 - £700 to fix

DCC Shock absorbers misting - c £1200 - £1500 to fix

 

I'd possibly add the 'Don't leave gear selector in park' or similar, faulty microswitch,  700 to fix, some goodwill from skids if recently out of warranty. Plus sqeaky/groans from suspension bushes (no damage but sounds awful).

Had all but the DCC misting but still love it. 

Re 4x4, see it as skodas 'quatro'  useful in snow but a game changer for spirited acceleration in the wet. Never worry about axle tramp again. 

If anyone got charged £700 to fix that fault they were robbed! 

 

https://www.akstuning.co.uk/shop/home/1770-genuine-dq250-dsg-parking-brake-fault-fix-3q0713128.html

 

Part is around £100 and Labour should no more than 1 to 1.5hrsmax.

 

As for the squeaky front bushes completely agree however you upgrade them to the TTRS ones then that solves that. 

 

Edited 23 August, 20223 yr by Awesam