Superb Scout edition harsh suspension

[Tonies]

Hello All,

 

Its my first topic here. Am driving a 2021 Superb Scout 2.0 TSI without DCC suspension.

I am having a horrible issue with the comfort of the car. The suspension is jiggling all over the road imperfections and there is enourmous LEAN when accelerating or breaking. Its soo disturbing that all of the passengers wife, kids and any other peoples that are sitting in the car. I guess the problem is that the car is with Rought Road suspenion with increased height with 1.5cm over the normal Superb (again without DCC because the DCCC ones are lowered).  Even the tiny road imperfections, stones, chips are feeling inside the cabin.  it is very strange because on the nice roads the car drives OK and its sitting very well. It has somekind of floatty feeling but in the second that there are even a small bumps the suspenions cannot settle down. The bad feeling increase when there are successive bumps in the road.

Plus that - there are always some kind of creaking and squeezing sound coming from the suspenion over the bumps. I heard that this may come from the gearbox which should be 'normal'....

Sadly, the local dealer is saying that 'its just normal' and there are no technical issues with the suspenion. I have been a few times there already to complain about that one.

Now I am looking for a suspenion upgrade options - what I can do without lowering the car? I already contacted Bilstein, Koni, KW but all of the does not have anything in their catalogs for edition Scout - which is sitting higher. To be honest I am not even sure from where the heigh is coming and whats the difference in the suspenion itself comparing the Scout and normal one ? Higher springs, longer shocks, any kind of harder struts? 

 

I know that there are no Scout modifications in UK but I guess there are peoples reading the forum from other contries as well. 

I would love to hear any other opinions what I can change to make the car drive a little bit better?

 

Regards,

 

[MarkyG82]

Have you checked the transport blocks have been removed. They fill in some of the from suspension to reduce the body movement in transport. Some dealers forget to remove them. They are usually in the front which would explain why the car feels floaty round corners as the rear is softer (not preferable in a front drive car). Would also explain why you feel small bumps as the front will be too stiff.

[ChrisCh]

Something does sound wrong - as the standard car is comfortable with and without DCC (and is tailored to the softer side), and the Scout version should be even more comfortable.

 

As above, check that the transport blocks have been removed.

 

Failing that you'll need to replace springs / dampers.

[Tonies]

The issue is from day 1 after I got the car out of the dealer. I never felt confident in driving it properly expect in the stright line, on perfect roads or on the autobahn where even with 200km/h I dont feel very confident.

Another interesting case I notice many many times. When the road is uneven, I notice that I drive slowly on the edge of the comfort and every time there are many other cars that are sitting on my tailgate even started to overtaking me. Much more older, smaller car. I am pretty sure that they feel more comfortable to drive with higher speeds with more settled suspension than me. 

Overall - with that car I am achieving my lowest average speed then any other car I had in the past considring the fact that its nearly 300hp...

 

Transport bolts was one of the 1st things that I requested to be checked on my earliest Inspection...Sadly they were already removed. 

 

[Tonies]

One more thing - I driven a few other Scouts with Diesel or with Petrol engines and all of them were much more comfortable then mine. I even checked the suspenion numbers from the one I tested and it seems the parts are the same as mine. Its just that all other cars are much more able to glide the bumps without being noticed in the cabin. The feeling is that on every bump the suspenion is bottoming out. Is this sounds like the suspenion is just too soft and cannot handle all road imperfection?

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, Tonies said:

The issue is from day 1 after I got the car out of the dealer. I never felt confident in driving it properly expect in the stright line, on perfect roads or on the autobahn where even with 200km/h I dont feel very confident.

 

100% the transport blocks have not been removed.

 

This is criminal negligence, the dealers who not only neglect  to remove the blocks but then do the "nothing wrong with the vehicle" BS this should serve a prison sentence.

[MarkyG82]

@Tonies I stand by my initial diagnosis (apparently others do also). Everything you describe is consistent with how the car would feel and drive with the blocks left in. I'd take it to a different garage for a second opinion. Even if it costs. Then maybe take that evidence (assuming we are right) to the original dealer for their comments.

[Bap33]

I may be wrong. But if you take a look at each spring, transport blocks are big enough, so that they can’t be missed.

No real need to go to a dealer to check if they’re still ON. 😉

[MikeM46]

On 11/08/2023 at 13:49, Tonies said:

One more thing - I driven a few other Scouts with Diesel or with Petrol engines and all of them were much more comfortable than mine. I even checked the suspenion numbers from the one I tested and it seems the parts are the same as mine. It’s just that all other cars are much more able to glide the bumps without being noticed in the cabin. The feeling is that on every bump the suspenion is bottoming out. Is this sounds like the suspenion is just too soft and cannot handle all road imperfection?

You might be onto something with the soft suspension possibility. Found this myself with my 4x4 Superb SEL after the suspension bottomed dramatically coming down off an elongated speed ramp at very moderate speed. Estate also

jittery over poor surfaces but floating serenely on good smooth motorway or dual carriage. Replaced shocks all round with Moni actives & handling transformed. When the old shocks came off the mechanic commented on how incredibly weak one of the rears was … hardly any resistance at all. The wheels will have been poinding up & down over poor surfaces with almost no damping/shock absorbing effect from the OEM shocks. 
 

But how old is your Scout? & what mileage? 

Compared with a 2015 Octavia Scout I had a few years ago I found my2018 Superb  so very disappointing regarding suspension … but no longer.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[J.R.]

On 11/08/2023 at 14:46, Tonies said:

The issue is from day 1 after I got the car out of the dealer.

 

Perhaps I misread that, did you buy the car new from the dealer?

 

If not then completely knackered shock absorbers are a possibility, the fronts a strong possibility, the rears unlikely at that age.

[xman]

Check your tyre pressures are correctly set as per the table you can find inside the fuel filler flap.

 

I believe that the tyres are set at the factory extremely high (I heard around 50 psi), to ensure no tyre distortions are developed if the car is stood for a long time.

 

They should then be reduced to correct setting at PDI, sometimes overlooked.

Edited 13 August, 2023 by xman

[Warrior193]

15 hours ago, Bap33 said:

I may be wrong. But if you take a look at each spring, transport blocks are big enough, so that they can’t be missed.

No real need to go to a dealer to check if they’re still ON. 😉

 I recall reading somewhere that you have to raise some type of shroud on the suspension unit to see if the transport blocks have been removed.

Edited 13 August, 2023 by Warrior193
repetition

[cnc]

There is a very helpful picture here of the transport blocks in place 

 

[Carlston]

On 11/08/2023 at 10:25, Tonies said:

Hello All,

 

Its my first topic here. Am driving a 2021 Superb Scout 2.0 TSI without DCC suspension.

I am having a horrible issue with the comfort of the car. The suspension is jiggling all over the road imperfections and there is enourmous LEAN when accelerating or breaking. Its soo disturbing that all of the passengers wife, kids and any other peoples that are sitting in the car. I guess the problem is that the car is with Rought Road suspenion with increased height with 1.5cm over the normal Superb (again without DCC because the DCCC ones are lowered).  Even the tiny road imperfections, stones, chips are feeling inside the cabin.  it is very strange because on the nice roads the car drives OK and its sitting very well. It has somekind of floatty feeling but in the second that there are even a small bumps the suspenions cannot settle down. The bad feeling increase when there are successive bumps in the road.

Plus that - there are always some kind of creaking and squeezing sound coming from the suspenion over the bumps. I heard that this may come from the gearbox which should be 'normal'....

Sadly, the local dealer is saying that 'its just normal' and there are no technical issues with the suspenion. I have been a few times there already to complain about that one.

Now I am looking for a suspenion upgrade options - what I can do without lowering the car? I already contacted Bilstein, Koni, KW but all of the does not have anything in their catalogs for edition Scout - which is sitting higher. To be honest I am not even sure from where the heigh is coming and whats the difference in the suspenion itself comparing the Scout and normal one ? Higher springs, longer shocks, any kind of harder struts? 

 

I know that there are no Scout modifications in UK but I guess there are peoples reading the forum from other contries as well. 

I would love to hear any other opinions what I can change to make the car drive a little bit better?

 

Regards,

 

 

Try Bilstein B6 shock absorbers. You would have to use the standard ride height ones, but I doubt the extra 15mm of ride height would cause the Bilstein B6 shock absorbers any problems. This is because if you have ever jacked up your car to change a wheel, you will know that standard ride height shock absorbers extend quite a bit before the wheel lifts off the ground.

 

Perhaps try changing the rear shock absorbers first. This is because they are cheaper than the front and the labour involved is a lot less than the front. If you are happy with the change, then go ahead and change the front.

 

Another option is to use standard ride height springs with the Bilstein B6 shock absorbers. However, I think in keeping with the style of the Scout, keeping the increased ride height would be more appropriate. The Bilstein B6 shock absorbers should give the suspension excellent control, so I doubt you will need to lower the car to standard ride height. However, keep in mind Bilstein B6 shock absorbers combined with standard ride height springs if the shock absorbers on their own don't provide the desired effect.

 

Many Superb MK3 owners aren't happy with the car's standard shock absorbers, so the Scout version with its 15mm increased ride height might simply make things worse.

 

Edited 15 August, 2023 by Carlston

[Bap33]

I just think back to a point… Considering your Scout version has DCC, it may be a problem with front schock absorbers leaking. It’s unfortunately a common issue with DCC. Some of us had to replace them at 30000 km. I also had to do it ‘fortunately’ at 96000 km.

 

Take a look at your front schock absorbers. If they’re a bit greasy, they need to be changed and it’s probably the main reason.

 

However, this hypothesis doesn’t match with this happening from the beginning… 🤔

[J.R.]

It matches with the "leaning" on acceleration and decelleration which I took to mean "pitching" or "porpoising" mine were as dry as a bone every time I checked them which was frequently but during my many removal journies towing a large overloaded trailer I noticed it pitching and the oscillations were not damped, the shockers had leaked and were no longer functioning.

 

To my great surprise while driving normally without a trailer attached the lack of damping was not really noticeable even when cornering due to the anti-roll bars, had I been driving it aggressively  throwing it into corners I would have noticed the change in transient behaviour, across normal road bumps the lack of damping was not noticeable.

 

On a softly sprung and heavier vehicle like the Superb I expect any damping deficiency to be more noticeable.

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, Bap33 said:

… Considering your Scout version has DCC,......

 

Says in the first post that it's not DCC.

[Bap33]

Sorry, I´ve read too fast on my smartphone. 🙄

Edited 16 August, 2023 by Bap33

[SurreyJohn]

Do some basic checks first :

 

1) Tyre pressures 

2) hook your hands under each wheel arch, lift it a bit and let go, if it wallows or doesn't settle straight away then shock absorbers faulty

3) check for transport blocks, normally have to jack body up and look at top of spring under the cover, shouldn't be any lumps of U shaped plastic slid in.

4) Are tyres (especially front) wearing more on one edge, if so got tracking or alignment issue.

 

From memory the scout being higher has slightly different size tyres, so check the pressure not been set to standard Superb (should be a pressure sticker (either inside the fuel filler cap, or on left front door frame).  

If it is a 2021 car then double check someone hasn't put wrong size tyres on it (because they are cheaper).  What tyres and size have you got, and is the tyre date code (4 digit number near rim) consistent with few weeks before build (say 3 or 4 months before registration), as this will indicate if tyres are original.   If you don't understand tyres just copy the brand and range name and numbers and 4 digit code written on them and someone here is bound to explain it.

Edited 16 August, 2023 by SurreyJohn

[Tonies]

 

On 16/08/2023 at 17:16, SurreyJohn said:

Do some basic checks first :

 

1) Tyre pressures 

2) hook your hands under each wheel arch, lift it a bit and let go, if it wallows or doesn't settle straight away then shock absorbers faulty

3) check for transport blocks, normally have to jack body up and look at top of spring under the cover, shouldn't be any lumps of U shaped plastic slid in.

4) Are tyres (especially front) wearing more on one edge, if so got tracking or alignment issue.

 

From memory the scout being higher has slightly different size tyres, so check the pressure not been set to standard Superb (should be a pressure sticker (either inside the fuel filler cap, or on left front door frame).  

If it is a 2021 car then double check someone hasn't put wrong size tyres on it (because they are cheaper).  What tyres and size have you got, and is the tyre date code (4 digit number near rim) consistent with few weeks before build (say 3 or 4 months before registration), as this will indicate if tyres are original.   If you don't understand tyres just copy the brand and range name and numbers and 4 digit code written on them and someone here is bound to explain it.

 

1. Its Ok, I driven with a different value from 2.3 bar to 2.5 bar - not satisfied.

2. It looks fine for me.
3. I dont see transport bolts and apart from that I already driven the car to the local dealer to check explicetly for them.

4. Alignment is not an issue.

 

Tyre sizes are the same as the normal editions - 235/45/18.

 

Current tyres - Michelin Primacy 4. Winter Michelin Pilot Alpin and Goodyear UltraGrip Performance +  same size...

 

There was an interesting suggestion above about the softness? What if the problem is really that the suspenion is too soft? But that would be strange because with a low low speeds even the tiny uneven surface or bump is feeling at the cabin? Is that supposed to be an effect of a too tight suspenion? 

However, I dont think we have a too tight suspenion or at least not with a full motion of it.

 

For sure there is too big movement of the whole chassis on bump stops or when I gently stroking the break pedal of the car. The car than instantly sticks the front part of the car to the road... Its horrible. You can receive a sea sickness just touching the breaks not even breaking... The whole car shackes than.

 

May be everything is just a wrong springs and shock absorbers. May be there are soft springs but tights schock absorbers? Or shock absorbers that doesnt work with the same pressure of the whole movement ....  What if the springs are too soft and cannot expand the shock absorbers properly? Too many questions...

 

What would be the possible results if I buy Bilstein B6 for a normal Superb Suspenion hight and keep the same 'higher' springs? 

[UndertheRadar]

14 hours ago, Tonies said:

 

 

1. Its Ok, I driven with a different value from 2.3 bar to 2.5 bar - not satisfied.

2. It looks fine for me.
3. I dont see transport bolts and apart from that I already driven the car to the local dealer to check explicetly for them.

4. Alignment is not an issue.

 

Tyre sizes are the same as the normal editions - 235/45/18.

 

Current tyres - Michelin Primacy 4. Winter Michelin Pilot Alpin and Goodyear UltraGrip Performance +  same size...

 

There was an interesting suggestion above about the softness? What if the problem is really that the suspenion is too soft? But that would be strange because with a low low speeds even the tiny uneven surface or bump is feeling at the cabin? Is that supposed to be an effect of a too tight suspenion? 

However, I dont think we have a too tight suspenion or at least not with a full motion of it.

 

For sure there is too big movement of the whole chassis on bump stops or when I gently stroking the break pedal of the car. The car than instantly sticks the front part of the car to the road... Its horrible. You can receive a sea sickness just touching the breaks not even breaking... The whole car shackes than.

 

May be everything is just a wrong springs and shock absorbers. May be there are soft springs but tights schock absorbers? Or shock absorbers that doesnt work with the same pressure of the whole movement ....  What if the springs are too soft and cannot expand the shock absorbers properly? Too many questions...

 

What would be the possible results if I buy Bilstein B6 for a normal Superb Suspenion hight and keep the same 'higher' springs? 

Contact Bilstein and ask them the question directly for a definitive response. 

[MarkyG82]

15 hours ago, Tonies said:

 

 

What would be the possible results if I buy Bilstein B6 for a normal Superb Suspenion hight and keep the same 'higher' springs? 

 

It sounds like you have a fundamental issue with the setup and swapping to B6 might not fix it. Although they are amazing shocks.

Have you looked at the front suspension yourself or simply gone on what the dealer said about the transport blocks? Wouldn't be the first time they've been missed.

Maybe also check that the rear roll bar is fitted and correctly. Did you do the bounce test on each corner as suggested by @SurreyJohn?

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

Have you looked at the front suspension yourself or simply gone on what the dealer said about the transport blocks? Wouldn't be the first time they've been missed.

 

I agree, this forum is flooded with what later turns out to be BS because people believe what a garage tells them.

 

Check yourself by jacking the car up and lifting the piston rod shroud, that is the only way to be sure.

[Tonies]

Hello All,

 

A little update from my side. Already checked everything and the car with the dealer for some time. They didnt find any techincal issues... just like the last few times I asked them to check.

However, I was in contact with Bilstein but the cannot provide me a dampers for my car because it is with tag 'raised suspension'. They dont have 1 to 1 replacement of my shocks. They are very strick in that to not mount a shocks, that are not exactly replacement of my oem shocks. How can I find a proper replacement of that crappy shocks or at least how to know which one of the Bilstein are the shocks for 'not raised' suspension?

[Carlston]

2 hours ago, Tonies said:

A little update from my side. Already checked everything and the car with the dealer for some time. They didn't find any technical issues... just like the last few times I asked them to check.

However, I was in contact with Bilstein but the cannot provide me a dampers for my car because it is with tag 'raised suspension'. They don't have 1 to 1 replacement of my shocks. They are very strict in that to not mount a shocks, that are not exactly replacement of my oem shocks. How can I find a proper replacement of that crappy shocks or at least how to know which one of the Bilstein are the shocks for 'not raised' suspension?

 

There aren't many aftermarket shock absorbers for the increased ride height Superb MK3.

 

Do you want to try standard ride height shock absorbers, such as Bilstein B6, with your increased ride height springs, or do you want to drop the ride height by changing to standard ride height springs.

 

Unless you need the increased ride height, it makes sense to change to standard ride height springs and standard ride height shock absorbers.

 

Edited 7 February by Carlston