Used Superb II on Autotrader Already!

[cheezemonkhai]

Sorry, not end of! Nobody owes anybody. The dealer provides a service or product, the customer pays for it, end of!

If the customer enjoyed the product or service or felt they were treated fairly and are happy with the price, they may return to use the dealer again!

I for one, know of a dealer that gets a lot of repeat business by providing a fair and genuine service and looking after their customers needs, for which the customers are willing to pay for, but I would not say the dealer owes their customers anything!

If I don't like the way a dealer is acting I don't buy from them.

As a customer I need the dealer less than they need me.

The dealer needs their customers money, the customer has lots of dealers brokers and other options. At the end of the day if they are not in a hurry the customer can just hold on and wait.

A dealer having no sales for 6 months is going to be in trouble if they are still around at all.

[Allams Skoda]

A dealer having no PROFIT sales for 6 months is going to be in trouble if they are still around at all

[cheezemonkhai]

i think my and many others customer services on here are second to none. we are talking about silly discounts from brokers who dont give a stuff over your customer experiance.

The broker has one aim, to get you the car at the best price possible so that you by it and they can add their fee and make a profit.

When you go to a broker you are looking for the best price and for the car to turn up as stated.

A bunch of flowers for the misses isn't going to make me go to a dealer instead as the few thousand pounds you can save by going via a broker will buy a lot of flowers, shoes, handbags etc. *

At the end of the day, the customer is king, and if you don't keep them happy your company will go to the wall. That is the same for all companies no matter what they sell unless they are in the very fortunate position to have a complete monopoly on the item they are selling.

Since VAG don't have a monopoly on cars, never mind a single skoda dealer, you have to keep the customers happy.

DtD have kept many people I know very very happy, so if the choice is paying full RRP for that warm glow of "supporting the family dealer" vs saving 3k most people save 3k.

I got a good discount on a fabia VRS for a friends father. He had a VRS approaching 3 years old.

By going from the IoW where they had the full RRP or a used one at nearly full RRP, to the nearest mainland dealer would have saved £500.

Then get the DtD price had a chat and they matched that including swapping the leather over from his old VRS with the seats in the new one.

No problems with that and the car was great.

The dealer gave the same **** they give to anyone who bought a car from anyone who didn't buy from them until I pointed out that the ferry was cheaper than the hire car and that they would just go to the mainland for servicing. Suddenly everything was good again and the owner of the garage was apologising for his staff.

Point:

- If a dealer gives you trouble because you got it elsewhere that will be the same regardless of if it was a broker or another dealer.

- If you walk with you're money then the dealer will quickly find they have a problem.

One of my local dealers was so cr*p that they have been sending out discount offers and `begging you to come back`apology letters, which a few people on here got, for about 2 -3 years. They won't get us back no matter how much they try. I'd expect to see them going to the wall soon all because they didn't give two hoots about the customer.

There are some great dealers and yes it might be worth paying for them, but at the end of the day if I like a dealer they will get my servicing, which probably nets them more profit anyway.

*Choose your SWMBO's favourite here.

[cheezemonkhai]

A dealer having no PROFIT sales for 6 months is going to be in trouble if they are still around at all

I would hope that most dealers wouldn't sell at a loss.

I'm not averse to people making a fair profit, but then having dealer whine on about places being cheaper it's just the way capitalism works and market forces.

Insurance companies deal with it and how would you like it if you were given so much grief over using an insurance comparison site rather than supporting your local insurer that were £750 more per year.

(That equates to the sort of savings you get over 3 years)

Every industry has it, it's just that the car dealerships have not got to grips with the concept of you have to be the cheapest and sell lots, or be so good that people will choose to come to you over saving money.

A glass palace is fine and all, but when the service is **** then you don't go back. Luckily the dealer I use has the least glass palace like building and gives good service. As such I use them for parts where i get a good price, fitting when I can't or don't have time again they give a competitive price and book servicing.

They will make more money off me on that than they will off me buying a car from them

Edited 7 October, 2008 by cheezemonkhai

[fluffmeister]

I tried to hold back and just munch on my popcorn, but there are some great points being made on both sides of the fence. I feel it all comes down to personal preference, I like to buy from a dealer because in the vast majority of cases I have had a good experience. In particular I have had great service from the Service department of Alex Lawrie Skoda in Liverpool however recently the sales team seem to be ............................ well .................carp since some nutty woman took over.

If I take Alex Lawrie as an example

1. Each time I have had a car serviced, it's been washed and hoovered and returned in a pristine condition, and I have had a courtesy car offered or a lift into town. I choose normally to deplete their supply of flavia coffee.

2. The Service and parts department are great, any time I want a part ordering for the odd tweak, I don't get any problems, they just order it and give me a ring when it's in.

3. I have had some Warranty work done on both the previous Octavia's and my original Skoda, a Fabia vRS, each time they did a fantastic job (SUK are a different matter .... turds they are), the car was also cleaned and hoovered after a warranty job. On the Fabia I got an Airbag warning light just before they closed I called them, (at the time I did not have Vag-Com) and they waited for me to make the 30 min trip to Liverpool, checked and reset the light.

4. If I have needed anything like Torque settings whilst doing a job, a quick call to Tony on service reception get's me the info I need.

Now, I accept that there will be very valid counter's to be raised against each one of my points, but if the dealer disappears, who does the Warranty work? Were do you go for servicing? and were (apart from here of course) can you get some technical advice?

Another point I think is valid (well in my eyes) if I buy a car from a dealer, and I need something I always "feel" that because I have supported that dealer that I get a better level of service. I got 10% off my mk2 vRS 20K service for being a loyal customer. Why should people buying cars from brokers expect a dealer to then bend over backwards to satisfy any requests they have or get them in as a priority for Warranty work?

I run my own business and one story that springs to mind is once, one of the largest UK IT Training providers had me booked as a freelancer to deliver an SMS 2003 course (and SMS is my "Thing" baby) , I got a phone call the week before the course and was told they have another SMS "trainer" who can deliver for £30 per day less, can I match it. I said no, they cancelled my order and employed the other guy. The course went badly, the other guy had never laid hands on an SMS Server in his life and regurgitated content from the manual, delegates walked out and demanded a refund or a fresh course. I was approached to go back, I delivered the course (after adding a few quid onto my normal rate) and they had happy customers and more importantly repeat business.

Cars are the same, you buy from a broker and you will get the car at a knockdown price, but once you drive off that forecourt, you are not their problem, any niggle you have will have to be sorted by a Skoda dealer, and if the nearest one is a 200 mile round trip because the local boys close down, how happy would you be? In my experience, you get what you pay for and I am happy to part with my cash at a dealer and accept that they need to live and make a profit, just as my customers accept that I give their customers a high level of service and I also have a mortgage to pay, kids to feed and Emelda Marcos, sorry the Mrs to keep in shoes and handbags.

[woodenspatulas]

The broker has one aim, to get you the car at the best price possible so that you by it and they can add their fee and make a profit.

When you go to a broker you are looking for the best price and for the car to turn up as stated.

.

a broker has one aim: to make himself as much money as possible. when this broker situation starts the threaten the amount of dealers that are out there (and it will), either the manufacturers will step in (like BMW) or the brokers will find them selves without suppliers

comparing insurance to the car makret is mental. insurance doesnt cost anything to anyone until you claim. so if 1000 people have insurance through these comparision sites saving each of them a 100 quid, but no one claims that year, thats 100 percent profit to the insurance company.

the same cant be said about the car industry. plus i go looking for insurance every year, and ive yet to find a comaprision site that offers anything but the same prices as what the insurance companies will give you when you phone them.

may i also point out that if you go with the cheapest insurance cover it wont be the same cover as a more expensive company will offer. look at the extras direct line offer over some unknown cheaper company? ive even found fully comp cover without windscreen cover or even the ability to cover me to drive another car. but again with the broker situation the cars are the same no matter how provides them!

so please stop comparing to completely different products, as its just ridiclous. you cant even compare it to electrical goods, as an independant seller buying a few hundred tvs gets less discount than the buying power of curries or dixons. all skoda dealers get the same mark up, so it will only go so far before it starts eating into the base line per car sold, then the dealers start making a loss per car, and finally the go bust. it really isnt hard to see how different it is.

i still put it like this, how would you like it if you were self employed put a price out for a job, only to have someone undercut it and then sell the work to you to do for less, AND take a cut from the profits making him more money than you?

how long would you stick it for?

how long coulds you remain in business?

[woodenspatulas]

I would hope that most dealers wouldn't sell at a loss.

but dont you see thats whats happening at the moment, the discounts being pushed are the profit from the car itself. there are allot of dealers living on bonus money and becuase of the poor september will find themselves in deep doo doo now.

[cheezemonkhai]

Whilst I agree in principle and as stated my dealer get the servicing and parts from me, I am not in a position to be able to pass up a big saving.

That plus a lot of dealers refuse to move from RRP rather than saying we won't be able to match that but we will meet you somewhere between RRP and that price sir.

Why not say well they will give you 2k off, so how about we give you £500/750/1k off at point of sale and a discount on the first service or two.

That means you are making the money back as they have an incentive to come back to you as servicing.

At the end of the say I do travel £60 or so miles to my dealer because the local one is that carp. If this dealer went carp, I'd change brands to one that provides good customer service. Ford are IMHO miles ahead of VAG in my area, but people won't believe that.

[cheezemonkhai]

but dont you see thats whats happening at the moment, the discounts being pushed are the profit from the car itself. there are allot of dealers living on bonus money and becuase of the poor september will find themselves in deep doo doo now.

It's a really simple solution, rather than selling at a loss say no.

The broker can't sell that car as they can't get it any cheaper than the RRP and people go to the dealer to buy.

The problem has been made by a few in the trade chasing the sales. That is the joy of "market forces". The dealers that are living off bonuses have made their bed and now must lay in it.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

IMHO the internet comparison sites are good for consumers and bad for company profits per item. However they sell more quantity and make the same or more money.

Insurance people will claim and they know full well what it costs to provide, so they will have a profit. Same goes for any item. Every item has a margin level and the retailer won't (if they have any sense) go below a certain margin. Any business operating on almost no margin will be in trouble as soon as things don't go how they plan.

To be fair, even if brokers didn't exist I think a lot of car dealers would be going to the wall anyway right now.

Problem is price will win as proven by people slating the dealer , who IMHO are very good for service, for advertising the superb at the price they did.

[skippy41]

:rofl:Its gone down another ten bob while you have all been debating:rofl:

[Ants]

What tends to happen though is this.

Dealer A agrees a deal with the broker for a discount of x.

6 months later dealer B are a bit short of target and contact the broker and offer a discount of x+2, just so they can get a few deals in to reach target and recieve the bonuses (which are not as great as most of you think).

Broker contacts dealer A and says we've had a better offer, do you want to play ball?' Dealer A says no thanks.

Dealer A loses ground on their target, so agrees to match or even better dealer b's discounts, lowering prices further.

Broker thinks, this is great!

Both dealer A and B reach target at a decreased profit and the manufacturer says 'well done guys you reached target. Next year we want 10% more volume before we'll pay your bonuses!

Dealer A and B, look like failing to reach target so increase the discount further in panic!

Dealer C, thinks, well I can't match those prices and I won't reach the target so I'll sell fewer cars and try to make as much money as possible out of them and risk getting called a 'stealer'!

Then dealers A, B & C all close down and teh broker finds someone else!

[cheezemonkhai]

Fair enough Ants and I know from discussions with you that on that front that you know what you're on about.

At the end of the day however, if the customer does their homework then they would get the best price without the broker and the brokers do send more business to some dealers.

There is a balance point to all the peeing about with prices, but the free market allows certain dealers to hang themselves.

It all falls apart when people think short term to how do i get my next hit. The current banking mess shows that it isn't just car dealers that have this issue.

Some of the now strongest banks were getting slated until recently for not making enough profits for their shareholders as they were staying out of the mortgage and derivatives markets. I guess the boot is on the other foot now though

[Supurbia]

One of my local dealers was so cr*p that they have been sending out discount offers and `begging you to come back`apology letters, which a few people on here got, for about 2 -3 years. They won't get us back no matter how much they try. I'd expect to see them going to the wall soon all because they didn't give two hoots about the customer.

*Choose your SWMBO's favourite here.

It's ok you can say Sparshatts.

[Supurbia]

Lets summarise, 1 place asks 21k another asks 17k, scrub the 3 yr value you will not get anything like the true value of a 3 yr old Skoda in px,

Skoda/VAG are robbing barstools, they buy back alll their cars to keep s/h retail high, shame they don't do the same for px cars.

If they had an ounce of brains they would realise 100k units at a discount is better than 5k units at full askings, never mind what do I know I'm only a cabby

[skisbp]

Lets summarise, 1 place asks 21k another asks 17k, scrub the 3 yr value you will not get anything like the true value of a 3 yr old Skoda in px,

Skoda/VAG are robbing barstools, they buy back all their cars to keep s/h retail high, shame they don't do the same for px cars.

If they had an ounce of brains they would realize 100k units at a discount is better than 5k units at full askings, never mind what do I know I'm only a cabby

It goes beyond that. VAG do this the world over! It's a pride thing... If nothing else in any write-up you'll see of a VAG product they'll often mention how it's more expensive than it's rivals. Yet most of the time it's also noted how it's resale will more than make up for the difference!!!

[snownrock]

This is a great thread to read

[Ants]

If they had an ounce of brains they would realise 100k units at a discount is better than 5k units at full askings, never mind what do I know I'm only a cabby

Would you accept £250 to drive from London to Edinburgh? Sure you would because that covers your costs and leaves you some profit.

Would you do it for £200? Maybe.

What about £150? You'll still cover your fuel costs and have some left over, go on then you'll do it!

What about for £100? No, why not? The guy down the road will! OK you'll do it on this occassion because you're quiet.

2 days later......

Will you take me to Edinburgh for £100? You've done it before, that's the going rate, go on, please! But what if you get a puncture or another unexpected cost, is it really woth it?

Or would you rather hang around in London and charge 3 customers £50 each for taking them to Heathrow?

Or, even hold out for a £250 fare to Edinburgh!

Do you see what I'm getting at? I appreciate these locations and prices may not be accurate, but it's the same idea as what you're suggesting!

Edited 8 October, 2008 by Ants

[jcblincs]

good analogy Ants !!

[Supurbia]

Would you accept £250 to drive from London to Edinburgh? Sure you would because that covers your costs and leaves you some profit.

Would you do it for £200? Maybe.

What about £150? You'll still cover your fuel costs and have some left over, go on then you'll do it!

What about for £100? No, why not? The guy down the road will! OK you'll do it on this occassion because you're quiet.

2 days later......

Will you take me to Edinburgh for £100? You've done it before, that's the going rate, go on, please! But what if you get a puncture or another unexpected cost, is it really woth it?

Or would you rather hang around in London and charge 3 customers £50 each for taking them to Heathrow?

Do you see what I'm getting at? I appreciate these locations and prices may not be accurate, but it's the same idea as what you're suggesting!

I see your point in comparison, but it doesn't compare tbh, I'm a one man op doing a one time job so I to give it away just can't happen although on longer runs a 25% discount out of my own pocket isn't unheard of it called oddsing it up taking into account fuel and time of day etc, so if someone wanted a £400 ride but only had £300 they would still be in luck because it converts from miles into a profit margin for the day.

However with regards to retailing there are further bites of the cherry to be had by discounting, you have the servicing side and the parts,acc and repeat business to make some money from, the larger the volume the more financial lower pricing becomes, and the ability to do this is there as a mate had 5k off list on a Vectra estate last year, so somewhere in the original 22k asking price was still a dealer profit after they'd retailed it at 17k proving that this policy of asking 22k and then trying to make it look like the car cost the manufacturer 21k to make doesn't hold up.

I know you will say that's how much Skoda charge the dealer for the car etc, and it was the manufacturer I was pointing at with regard to better pricing rather than the dealers tbh, and the future will show this as there will be 100X more Insignia's and Mondeo's than Superb's otr.

[Supurbia]

It goes beyond that. VAG do this the world over! It's a pride thing... If nothing else in any write-up you'll see of a VAG product they'll often mention how it's more expensive than it's rivals. Yet most of the time it's also noted how it's resale will more than make up for the difference!!!

Sad thing is it's px price doesn't hold as well as they like to say, it does for the dealers screen pricing, but px'ing the value is as bad if not worse than a VX or a Ford.

[cheezemonkhai]

It's ok you can say Sparshatts.

Actually it isn't... although they were unbelievable when i did go in there as the car had been recovered to them.

Suffice to say Mr Wonder could have done a better fitting job on the accessories and that they were charging for lot of things I wouldn't expect.

As for the courtesy car charge after I had been left stranded I won't go into that on here other than to say they used the excuse approximating but we can't charge it out to another customer for a whole day as you had it a few hours over 24 so you have to pay for 2 days.

[Noblemon]

Right I've read most but not all of this (long) thread. Most of it seems to relate to private purchasers. What about business users looking to contract hire a SuperbII?

I'm getting quotes and the variation in prices is ridiculous. I'm talking almost £140 p/mnth between my cheapest and most expensive quotes :eek:with plenty inbetween for the same vehicle over the same term with the same mileage.

Can anyone explain how the whole thing works as the prices seem to be plucked out of the air? Although that last comment doesn't apply to a certain person not too far from here who was at least able to give a reasonable explanation for their quote...

I'm in a partnership so although it's the "business" paying, it's my money and in the current climate we've even had to reduce that budget and agree that the balance comes from our pockets personally. With the wildly varying quotes the whole process gets very frustrating believe me.:(

[cheezemonkhai]

you might want to start a separate thread on this, but my first port of call would be to look at the mileage allowance on each deal.

[VRStu]

Right I've read most but not all of this (long) thread. Most of it seems to relate to private purchasers. What about business users looking to contract hire a SuperbII?

I'm getting quotes and the variation in prices is ridiculous. I'm talking almost £140 p/mnth between my cheapest and most expensive quotes :eek:with plenty inbetween for the same vehicle over the same term with the same mileage.

Can anyone explain how the whole thing works as the prices seem to be plucked out of the air? Although that last comment doesn't apply to a certain person not too far from here who was at least able to give a reasonable explanation for their quote...

I'm in a partnership so although it's the "business" paying, it's my money and in the current climate we've even had to reduce that budget and agree that the balance comes from our pockets personally. With the wildly varying quotes the whole process gets very frustrating believe me.:(

I would guess it quite simply boils down to purchase price, if one lease company has a good deal on the motor then they may choose to pass this on to the customer.

[skippy41]

Right I've read most but not all of this (long) thread. Most of it seems to relate to private purchasers. What about business users looking to contract hire a SuperbII?

I'm getting quotes and the variation in prices is ridiculous. I'm talking almost £140 p/mnth between my cheapest and most expensive quotes :eek:with plenty inbetween for the same vehicle over the same term with the same mileage.

Can anyone explain how the whole thing works as the prices seem to be plucked out of the air? Although that last comment doesn't apply to a certain person not too far from here who was at least able to give a reasonable explanation for their quote...

I'm in a partnership so although it's the "business" paying, it's my money and in the current climate we've even had to reduce that budget and agree that the balance comes from our pockets personally. With the wildly varying quotes the whole process gets very frustrating believe me.:(

Try here www.thetaxicentre.co.uk or www.autosalesgroup.co.uk

The second link has them from £59.19 a week