Felicia Combi 1.3 - what oil?

[nta16]

53 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Yes, they are available here.

Either I have remembered wrong (very possible) or things must have change as I am  sure last time I put up a stockist you put they were hard to get to and P&P is very prohibitive to Greece.

 

I don't see the ones I linked to but 5W-40 EE LONGLIFE in 1l bottles is with a 14.1 (and a 85.9) if you like those figures.

 

I will have to think of a blender you don't get over there next time.  😄

 

 

53 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

This one.

That's the first one I saw when looking but it's the US of A version, I expected you were attracted by the labelling having "High Zinc Formula" and "Flat Tappets" and on site "Ideal for applications where the extra protection of a higher-viscosity oil is desired.  Excellent for motor homes and older vehicles, as well as many types of modern equipment and compatible with some motorcycles.".  Do bear in mind it's the additive package that matters rather than just one ingredient of the package and old American cars and bikes are different from European ones, their motor manufacturers stuck with old designs and technologies as generally that suited their corporations, in many ways they remain backwards facing. 

 

You let the SL (up to 2004) and no VW approval go by (as I would) -

AMSOIL Premium Protection Synthetic 10W-40 (AMO)

• Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445) - 14.6
• Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445) - 95.9

https://www.amsoil.com/p/premium-protection-10w-40-synthetic-motor-oil-amo/

 

I assume you buy in 3.874 litres (1 US Gallon) cans, it might be less expensive to see if Amsoil sell a more local equivalent (or near equivalent) version and or look for small  racing oil supplier businesses as I  have sometimes found they offer lower prices especially if the blender is changing labels or cans and want clearance of current label/can supply.

 

You have loads of choices for oil so as Dave Allen almost said - and may your oil belief go with you.  🙂

 

[RicardoM]

Skoda factory recommended at that time (1994-2001) to use mineral engine oil 10W40 for petrol engines.

Since the oil technology evolved a great deal, I invite everyone to use a semi-synthetic engine oil 10W40 for petrol engines. You will have no issues at all.

It is not rocket science, unless you have too much free time, too much worries, or you want to split hairs.

[nta16]

Splitting hairs I know but semi-synthetic and synthetic are generally used as marketing terms and tools, a good oil is a good oil be it mineral, semi or fully synthetic (and you can often get better of those if you need/want to).

 

Best to buy first to cover your particularly needs and second to cover your particular wants and then not worry too much what the label is.

 

I've had people tell me they've never changed the oil in a car and run the car fine for years, not my choice but good luck to them, others, particularly engineers,  tell me any oil (of recommended grade/weight) is fine in an older car buy whatever is on low price offer and that may well often be fine too, depends on your needs and wants.

 

You could hardly want more consumer choice in things like engine oils, possibly far too much for a long time, and ever increasing thanks to modern motor manufacturers' demands (like VW's).  😄

 

[RicardoM]

Let's get back to the specifics of Skoda Felicia engines. We are talking about Felicia here, right? They were designed to be small family cars, with low maintenance and operation costs. The engine metallic parts, the seals, and the lubrication system as a whole have been designed for a moderate mechanical load. A Skoda Felicia is not a performance car by any stretch of imagination. The selected engine oil had to comply with the design of the engine, so Skoda chose mineral oil 10W40 for most countries having a temperate weather. By no means Felicia was designed for Siberia or Sahara.

The difference between a mineral oil and a synthetic oil is that the mineral one is (by oversimplification) what comes from the petrol in the ground, without additives, while synthetic oil has human made additives that help extending the oil stability, lubrication efficiency, washing capabilities, and many more. Those are not marketing lies, except maybe for cheap, no name brands. Fully synthetic oil is not good for Felicia engines. I will not enter into details why, but remember what I said in the beginning. The engine was designed for mineral oil. Using a semi synthetic oil has the advantage of both worlds.

[J.R.]

7 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Fully synthetic oil is not good for Felicia engines. I will not enter into details why

 

Why not ? Unless you cannot back it up, if its just your belief then thats fine, as I said earlier any decision that you believe in is the right one for you, semi-synthetic seems like a sensible compromise.

 

When I was racing motorcycle engined Caterhams I found that synthetic oils were a problem, they were great for the engine as it hit very high oil temps on endurance races on short circuits, fully synthetic oil made the difference between bearings running at 170°c and remaining intact, the problem was clutch slip (multi-plate wet clutch) caused by the friction modifiers, eventually I had to settle on Castrol Superbike oil as it was then.

 

I tried other oils that claimed different formulations against my baseline test for the Castrol oil against the Comma fully synthetic I had been using, gripping an oiled spanner in an oily hand it would slip through my fingers with the friction modifier containing oil.

[RicardoM]

Again, remember this section is about Skoda Felicia. Any example about other cars, bikes, trucks has no relevance to this section or what I've commented.

[Thefeliciahacker]

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

Why not ? Unless you cannot back it up, if its just your belief then thats fine, as I said earlier any decision that you believe in is the right one for you, semi-synthetic seems like a sensible compromise.

RicardoM has a point it will leak easily for example oil pan has a Cork gasket which doesn't like synthetics

[Thefeliciahacker]

8 hours ago, RicardoM said:

Skoda factory recommended at that time (1994-2001) to use mineral engine oil 10W40 for petrol engines.

Sorry to break the news to you but you are wrong this time. 

According to the official user manu in my possession for the environmental temperature range in southern Greece 

-5C - 40C the reccomened oils are the last bar 

Not 10W40 as I have advised maybe 5W50 for the widest range but 15W40 or 50 for the real mediterranean conditions 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Thefeliciahacker

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Spoiler

Skoda factory recommended at that time (1994-2001) to use mineral engine oil 10W40 for petrol engines

 

Skoda recommended Semi-Synthetic and not Mineral.

 

Also in manual said for coolant to use G11 for Felicia, in an older topic i remember that the other guy suggest to another Felicia driver to use G12.

That wasn't a "split hair" case? 

 

11 hours ago, nta16 said:

 old American cars and bikes are different from European ones

 

Amsoil has a 5W-40 European formula oil but unfortunately not 10W-40.

Have you or a friend of yours ever use in an old classic car a Synthetic oil?

[nta16]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Amsoil has a 5W-40 European formula oil but unfortunately not 10W-40.

Yes I saw that on their website but I didn't know if a 10w-40 was previously available in a European formula, oils and their labels get changed with sales and marketing needs and wants.

 

5W-40 (AFL) -

• Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445) - 14.3
• Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445) - 88.5

https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3395.pdf

 

I would contact Amsoil Europe and see what oil they suggest, as I have their oil finder, when I tried it, suggested as I put above (unless I typo'd anything).  I know you, quite rightly, would check any information, opinion or belief you get off the internet or from a manufacturer and go your own way.

 

 

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Have you or a friend of yours ever use in an old classic car a Synthetic oil?

Yes.  I used Mobil 1 in at least one old "classic" if not two before your Felicia was made or you bought it and they both had cork gaskets.  One that I know of was still going a couple of decades later after I sold it, the other I know was going fine a few years later but was moved off-shore so contact and records were lost.  With my last "classic" which I had for 15 years I ran on various oils from initially mineral to Mobil 1 to a Millers, the current owner, along with his two other "classics" uses Castrol Magnatec (semi-syn?) as his brother works for Castrol.  He also uses silicone brake fluid in his "classics", for the 25+ years since he restored one  that I can remember - but that's a different can of worms.  AFAIK his "classics" will have cork seals, unless he's updated their materials, I can't remember asking about them.

 

I was told by some "classic"  owners back then, particularly those that rarely drove their "classics" whereas I was using mine daily, that the Mobil 1 would ruin the engines, rot my teeth and steal my looks, the engines were fine and I still have all my own teeth and looks.  😁 

 

All the "classics" mentioned above had engines designed in the 1950s and built in the 60s, one in the 70s and one replacement engine in the 80s.

 

I have also used Mobil 1 in old and brand new Rover V8 engines in various cars, the engines being made in the 70s and 90s.

 

I can not with honesty tell you if the synthetic oils I have used have caused or made worse any leaks to any seals including cork on my last "classic" as old British engines tend to leak a bit anyway,  I do remember initially it being without oil leaks as it was reconditioned but after tens of thousands of miles of use, and unlike many "classic" owners I don't drive them like Miss Daisy, (and a couple of head gasket failures) it did leak, certainly from the rocker cover even after I changed from cork seal to silicone seal (I wished I had done that many years before).  One way to check if an old British made engine has oil in it is to look and see if any is dripping out.  😄

 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

All the "classics" mentioned above had engines designed in the 1950s and built in the 60s, one in the 70s and one replacement engine in the 80s.

 

I have also used Mobil 1 in old and brand new Rover V8 engines in various cars, the engines being made in the 70s and 90s.

 

👍

 

In the chart that @Thefeliciahacker posted:

 

Petrol engines

A - Light Multi type oils

specification VW 500 00

B - Multi type oils

specification VW 501 01

specification VW 502 00

specification ACEA A2 or A3-96

 

The viscosity class of the oil must be selected based on the diagram. If the temperature exceeds the indicated values for a short period of time, there is no need to change the oil.

Important Notes:
Because engine oils are constantly being improved, the information contained herecorresponds only to the situation valid at the time of publicationof this book.

 

 

 

 

[J.R.]

13 hours ago, RicardoM said:

Again, remember this section is about Skoda Felicia. Any example about other cars, bikes, trucks has no relevance to this section or what I've commented.

Yeah right! 😄

 

I forgot they used warp drives lubricated by magnetic repulsion.

[J.R.]

8 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

RicardoM has a point

 

But not one he is willing to explain.

 

14 hours ago, RicardoM said:

Fully synthetic oil is not good for Felicia engines. I will not enter into details why

 

13 hours ago, RicardoM said:

Any example about other cars, bikes, trucks has no relevance to this section or what I've commented.

 

[RicardoM]

8 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Sorry to break the news to you but you are wrong this time. 

According to the official user manu in my possession for the environmental temperature range in southern Greece 

-5C - 40C the reccomened oils are the last bar 

Not 10W40 as I have advised maybe 5W50 for the widest range but 15W40 or 50 for the real mediterranean conditions

A 10W40 multigrade oil is designed for outside temperatures between -20°C and 40°C. I quote from my previous replies "Skoda chose mineral oil 10W40 for most countries having a temperate weather". I didn't say anything about mediterranean or tropical weather.

Furthermore, I have attached a screenshot from Skoda Felicia Workshop manual. You will find interesting notes that I emphasized in red. Remember that Skoda dealers' recommendations from year 2000 take into account two things: 1st: Felicia's engine was designed for cheap, mineral oil (to keep maintenance costs low and also because it is not a performance engine), and 2nd: temperate weather was different in temperatures range than today.

Felicia workshop manuals are above Felicia owners manual, also I had the occasion to exchange technical information about my Skoda Felicia with numerous Skoda mechanics in VAG dealerships when I worked in Europe.

The engine on my Felicia 1.3 is running strong with high compression at 180,000 km and I used 10W40 mineral oil till 2010-ish, then 10W40 semi-synthetic oil till today. Any full synthetic oil IN FELICIA engines has two visible disadvantages: leaks around all seals and also "boils" in the engine oil sump, then the vapors are sucked through the PCV hose into combustion chamber where they are burned. The mineral part in the semi synthetic oil FOR FELICIA prevents those 2 issues.

PS. I hope that our friend JR will find my reply satisfying for his sarcastic demands.

 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by RicardoM

[R_Blue]

I also want to add an important detail.

The discussion is about an owner's 23 years old engine. We are not in 2003 when the Felicia's engine could be considered new.

@D.FYLAKTOS 's engine has already been bedded in with thicker oils. Oil pump has been worn.

As we all know, when the engines age, internal clearances increase and so the oil requirement.

 

If we were discussing about priming a completely renewed Felicia 1.3 engine, discussion may be more logical. But, suddenly reducing the oil thickness without doing anything mechanically does not makes sense to me.

The oil pump works like squeezing the oil. If you reduce the oil thickness too much it won't be able to squeeze the oil properly and oil starvation might happen especially at high revolutions just like @Thefeliciahacker mentioned.

[vucko1011]

I would reccommend 10W40 if your engine is in very good shape and you live in a colder climate. But personally I would use 15W40 because 1.3 engine is quite old tech (OHV-Pushrod engine) and the tolerances are not that good comparing to newer engines.

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, RicardoM said:

PS. I hope that our friend JR will find my reply satisfying for his sarcastic demands.

 

Absolutely, especially the bit about global warming raising sump temperatures to boil synthetic oil, that was very satisfying, I should point out that I did not demand satisfaction but nonetheless am very appreciative to have received some.

Edited 19 November, 2023 by J.R.

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, RicardoM said:

A 10W40 multigrade oil is designed for outside temperatures between -20°C and 40°C. I quote from my previous replies "Skoda chose mineral oil 10W40 for most countries having a temperate weather". I didn't say anything about mediterranean or tropical weather.

Furthermore, I have attached a screenshot from Skoda Felicia Workshop manual. You will find interesting notes that I emphasized in red. Remember that Skoda dealers' recommendations from year 2000 take into account two things: 1st: Felicia's engine was designed for cheap, mineral oil (to keep maintenance costs low and also because it is not a performance engine), and 2nd: temperate weather was different in temperatures range than today.

Felicia workshop manuals are above Felicia owners manual, also I had the occasion to exchange technical information about my Skoda Felicia with numerous Skoda mechanics in VAG dealerships when I worked in Europe.

The engine on my Felicia 1.3 is running strong with high compression at 180,000 km and I used 10W40 mineral oil till 2010-ish, then 10W40 semi-synthetic oil till today. Any full synthetic oil IN FELICIA engines has two visible disadvantages: leaks around all seals and also "boils" in the engine oil sump, then the vapors are sucked through the PCV hose into combustion chamber where they are burned. The mineral part in the semi synthetic oil FOR FELICIA prevents those 2 issues.

Interesting facts, but from what I see the owners manual preety much has combined these oils in my right most category but the 50 weight oils seem to be able to stretch a bit higher in the temp range which I like. 

As for the notes it doesn't come as a surprise that lower than 10w shouldn't be used, the oil pump has to be able to pump it and it's a straight gear style. 

As for fylaktos I've warned him he shouldn't use 5w40 he does not listen, quite frankly I cannot care any more... 

And yes you are correct I only ever used semi synthetic blends 

Motul 4100 15w50 technosythesse or however it's called I use currently switching about a year ago from castrol gtx 15w40

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, vucko1011 said:

I would reccommend 10W40 if your engine is in very good shape and you live in a colder climate. But personally I would use 15W40 because 1.3 engine is quite old tech (OHV-Pushrod engine) and the tolerances are not that good comparing to newer engines.

I agree 10w40 in Greece has killed timing chains... 

[Thefeliciahacker]

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

But not one he is willing to

Some things are self explanatory my friend cork gaskets and synthetics cause oil leaks 

[Thefeliciahacker]

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

👍

 

In the chart that @Thefeliciahacker posted:

 

Petrol engines

A - Light Multi type oils

specification VW 500 00

B - Multi type oils

specification VW 501 01

specification VW 502 00

specification ACEA A2 or A3-96

 

The viscosity class of the oil must be selected based on the diagram. If the temperature exceeds the indicated values for a short period of time, there is no need to change the oil.

Important Notes:
Because engine oils are constantly being improved, the information contained herecorresponds only to the situation valid at the time of publicationof this book.

 

 

 

 

I hope you understand I am trying to protect you here, yet you keep on insisting about the 5W-40 being fine, which everybody on this thread is saying no, some people suggesting 10w40 some people 15w40

Some people 15w50.

All of them more viscous, it's your motor your money your time at play, I think you should reconsider for the life of your motor, or at least fit an oil pressure gauge 

[J.R.]

13 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Some things are self explanatory my friend cork gaskets and synthetics cause oil leaks 

If you say so.

[J.R.]

Oils is the new religion/politics!

[D.FYLAKTOS]

12 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Some things are self explanatory my friend cork gaskets and synthetics cause oil leaks 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

I agree 10w40 in Greece has killed timing chains... 

 

An Amsoil 10W-40 Synthetic can do this?

 

17 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

As for fylaktos I've warned him he shouldn't use 5w40 he does not listen, quite frankly I cannot care any more... 

 

I can not do an oil change now, i can't pay 70 euros at the moment, i will in the future but till then i drive my car normally in a city.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

18 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Some things are self explanatory my friend cork gaskets and synthetics cause oil leaks 

 

Quote

The idea that synthetic oils are bad for older cars probably comes from the fact that early synthetic oils (we're talking 1970s) contained a chemical compound that could damage engine seals and, in some cases, cause leaks. These days, all types of motor oils are tested to make sure they won't damage your car's engine, and synthetics no longer use the chemical compound (ester) that caused these problems.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34762175/synthetic-oil-classic-cars/

 

16 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

yet you keep on insisting about the 5W-40 being fine

 

As i have seen now, should i close my eyes or say a lie?

I have lower motor noise, less fuel consumption, the car rev-up better, should i ignore all these and say what?

I have tested Motul Synthetic and Castrol-Valvoline Semi-Synthetic, they didn't work for me, i don't want them any more in my car !