Automatic boot - Completed

[chr1staylor]

I've been following this post pretty closely but is it just me that has got a bit confused? I've got a hatch.......was looking at getting red springs, are we now thinking that these aren't up to the job?

They are up to the job but when the boot is closed the springs are fully-compressed, which will reduce their effectiveness over time, but it's very difficult to say by how much, and over what period.

[No Waiting]

So who's going to be first and stick a ladder or similar on their roof bars, then open the boot forgetting about the springs and said item on the roof - that's the end of your rear window!

[Mute]

So who's going to be first and stick a ladder or similar on their roof bars, then open the boot forgetting about the springs and said item on the roof - that's the end of your rear window!

Lol it's opening it straight into a low carpark roof i'm worrying about if you don't hold the remote for 2 secs, you just press it normally, the boot only unlocks and you still have to press the release button on the bootlid to open it. It doesn't spring open violently or anything so you would just use your hand to hold it opening right up i guess.

[Captain Kremen]

So who's going to be first and stick a ladder or similar on their roof bars, then open the boot forgetting about the springs and said item on the roof - that's the end of your rear window!

I am sure you do not have to stand half a mile away from the boot - you could just stand next to the car & catch it on the way up?

Looks good though, tempted to do it if I could be arsed.

[ollybroad]

I've got a hatch so just ordered some Yellow Extra Heavy duty springs but a bit shorter at 44 also ordered the red 51s that prolfe has said are fully compressed to compare them with will let all you hatch owners know how I get on with the yellows.

[prolfe]

I've got a hatch so just ordered some Yellow Extra Heavy duty springs but a bit shorter at 44 also ordered the red 51s that prolfe has said are fully compressed to compare them with will let all you hatch owners know how I get on with the yellows.

Cool cheers Olly

If any estate owner wants to purchase some red ones at a reduced cost then pm me.

Cheers

[prolfe]

I'd have left them on, worst case is that you'd have to replace them in a few months. Would be good to have yours as a test case to see how long they do last.

They didn't work last night, and when i tried this morning, again they didn't work, boot would spring open but then wouldn't rise to the top.

it might of been the heat in them yesterday that made the difference.

Will be getting some shorter yellow ones.

I saw some interesting info on max compression. The softer the spring the more it can be safely compressed, up to 50%, then the harder ones at 18-20%.

[chr1staylor]

They didn't work last night, and when i tried this morning, again they didn't work, boot would spring open but then wouldn't rise to the top.

Ah right, blimey.

Will be interested to see how effective the shorter yellow springs are.

[sherlocks VRS]

People are having concerns about these springs at 16 by 51 being compressed to much but if you have got a small grinder why not cut a coil or two of and sit a washer at the cut end to keep it square then you can have what length you like,You wont see the cut if you are heat shrinking them as well, ive got a hatch and when my tailgate is shut ive got 25mm of ram on show and ive got some red/heavy duty springs comming and i shall be looking at cutting them down to 40 to 45mm if they are to coil bound, and i think 40 to 45mm on heavys will be good enough and wont harm the spring, ive seen 16 by 38mm yellows which are extra heavy duty in my mind i think these will be to heavy and could cause other issues.Any thoughts?? Phil.

[SBirch]

Hi I am interested in developments in this direction as I used to have this feature standard on my old BMW 325 Hatch. Very handy when you had your hands full.

However this was done by just having slightly more powerful gas struts. Wouldn’t this be a better solution? I once costed up a replacement set as they where starting to lose some of their old vigour after 7 years. I think they where only £14 each.

I guess some other VAG car has this feature and the struts can be replaced for £30 or so?

[vRS Carl]

Hi I am interested in developments in this direction as I used to have this feature standard on my old BMW 325 Hatch. Very handy when you had your hands full.

However this was done by just having slightly more powerful gas struts. Wouldn’t this be a better solution? I once costed up a replacement set as they where starting to lose some of their old vigour after 7 years. I think they where only £14 each.

I guess some other VAG car has this feature and the struts can be replaced for £30 or so?

Now that for me would be a better solution

[Keith Lard]

I guess some other VAG car has this feature and the struts can be replaced for £30 or so

My previous Audi A4&A6 both had this feature. It was done with a combination of stronger struts and springs on the boot hinges (saloons). Just the struts alone would not be strong enough to lift the Skoda tailgates.

I think the estate Audi's that have this feature use electrical actuators as they are able to open and close the boot remotely.

Edited 17 July, 2010 by Keith Lard

[rossm]

Having waited patiently for my red R16x51 Heavy Load Die Springs to arrive, I rushed out today and fitted them up to the hatchback Octavia vRS.

Desperate to join the rest of the elite, I made a video recording of the inaugural boot opening...

...but what was this?

FAILURE!

I'd read issues Prolfe's issues with these springs, but hoped that maybe some sort of difference in the gas struts might have somehow made mine work. Unfortunately not. Having seen the springs in action, I don't think making them shorter would help. Theres quite a bit more lift required to get the boot to the point where the gas struts kick in. I'm thinking longer, more heavy springs would do it. They'd need to compress more(in order to fit, because these were very tight.

I'll have a look around for alternatives, or wait for prolfe's feedback on the extra heavy duty ones.

Ross

Edited 17 July, 2010 by rossm

[prolfe]

i think shorter but stronger could be the way forward.

[m0bov]

[sherlocks VRS]

Having waited patiently for my red R16x51 Heavy Load Die Springs to arrive, I rushed out today and fitted them up to the hatchback Octavia vRS.

Desperate to join the rest of the elite, I made a video recording of the inaugural boot opening...

...but what was this?

FAILURE!

I'd read issues Prolfe's issues with these springs, but hoped that maybe some sort of difference in the gas struts might have somehow made mine work. Unfortunately not. Having seen the springs in action, I don't think making them shorter would help. Theres quite a bit more lift required to get the boot to the point where the gas struts kick in. I'm thinking longer, more heavy springs would do it. They'd need to compress more(in order to fit, because these were very tight.

I'll have a look around for alternatives, or wait for prolfe's feedback on the extra heavy duty ones.

Ross

Yes mine does exactly the same it must be the fact that the hatch tailgate is heavier or running at a different angle ive even tried the red heavy springs in there standard length. Very dissapointed Edited 17 July, 2010 by sherlocks VRS

[Mute]

However this was done by just having slightly more powerful gas struts. Wouldn’t this be a better solution?

This might just be the fix for the hatch, very good shout i don't think it'll work on the estate (about 1.5 inches from closed, the mounts on the tailgate side of the struts drop below the imaginary line through the tailgate hinge and body strut mount, which means the pushing force from the struts helps close the tailgate below this point) which is unfortunate for us estate owners because it would have been a better solution for looking OEM.

FAILURE!

Just looks like it doesn't have the guts, it looks like it only needs a bit more and it'll be there. Hopefully the stiffer springs will do it. If not, there might be a silver lining in so much as you can buy the spring damper struts in all sorts of strengths and all sizes.

The BMW i'm most familiar with, they used an electric pump unit and hydraulic system to power it all, talk about expensive solution

[SBirch]

This might just be the fix for the hatch, very good shout i don't think it'll work on the estate (about 1.5 inches from closed, the mounts on the tailgate side of the struts drop below the imaginary line through the tailgate hinge and body strut mount, which means the pushing force from the struts helps close the tailgate below this point) which is unfortunate for us estate owners because it would have been a better solution for looking OEM.

Just looks like it doesn't have the guts, it looks like it only needs a bit more and it'll be there. Hopefully the stiffer springs will do it. If not, there might be a silver lining in so much as you can buy the spring damper struts in all sorts of strengths and all sizes.

The BMW i'm most familiar with, they used an electric pump unit and hydraulic system to power it all, talk about expensive solution

My 325ti was completely standard, to achive the auto lift hatch, BMW just fitted very strong gas struts. No springs at all. Although I guess the Octavia's hatch is bigger so probably has a little more weight. There were disadvantages though, one the boot was a harder to close and also some struts did fail during the life of the car. Failure just meant that it needed a little manual help to lift up, they never dumped the hatch on someone's head as far as I know.

I wish I could find the link to the replacement supplier I sourced as they had lots of different struts for all sorts of cars....

Edit

Found one of them. This company will make bespoke units...

http://www.sgs-engineering.com/shop/categories/search/fixed-force-gas-struts

Edited 18 July, 2010 by SBirch

[JLneonhug]

Thanks guys! this has been very useful, Im eyeing this up for the Fabia boot so if you have any pointers please let me know

I have a couple of questions -

1. would this spring method cause more pressure on the boot latch mechanism itself; enough for premature failure?

2. if the spring was not strong enough (as some say) could one put washers in to compensate the lack of spring length?

[175GDY]

Very interesting thread

Had to check if this mod was possible on my 2009 FL Estate. But with the hatch closed there were only 29mm gap for the auxiliary spring.

And datasheet for the medium strength Raymond Die Spring (D=15,88mm/d=8,72mm/L=50,88mm) says max compressed length = 33,02mm.

If one choose to go for stronger Gas Springs, how much stronger will they need to be?

Installed gas springs have some printed data outside: 1Z9 827 550 01S and 9674XC 0480N 088/09 A31. The first seems to be a Skoda item number. The second - havnen't got a clue, but 0480N could well be the force strength.

Gas spring measures: L=475mm (tip to tip)/Housing-D=19mm/Strut-D=8mm/M6 tips in both ends. Haven't got a scale, so force was not tested.

I did try this configurator, just to see how it worked: Bansbach Configurator Anyone tried this approach?

[MPM]

:D

Gotta add mine to the list :b

It does feel 'tight' when closing now, but nothing i won't get used to over a few closes...

MPM

[rossm]

i think shorter but stronger could be the way forward.

...after thinking about it for four days, I agree!

Longer springs just aren't going to fit, and if they did the constant compression placed upon them would mean they stopped working pretty soon after fitting. Most of these die springs aren't meant to be compressed more than 25% of their length (12.8mm for the 16x51 springs).

My cars in the garage this week (not boot related), but when I've got it back I'm going to try the gold (extra heavy duty) 16x38 or 20x38 springs, data specs below:

Gold Exta Heavy Die Springs

Also - I got the chance to compare my 3-year old hatchback to a brand new estate boot, the difference was massive, the estate took hardly any effort to open in comparison, which is why I'm swaying towards the 20x38 springs if they'll fit.

If those don't work, I think uprated gas struts are the only option, but will be a bit pricier - and again, no idea which ones to go for.

Part of me wonders if its really worth all the hassle, but seeing the increasing number of estate owners with videos of their automatic boots just makes me more envious and determined

Edited 21 July, 2010 by rossm

[prolfe]

still not ordered new ones yet - let me know how you get on.

[partyboy1101]

Has anyone sussed how to make the hatch work yet!!! I'm going to explode if I cant have an automatic open soon!

[m0bov]

I have pair of heavy duty reds going spare which I don't need. PM me.