I like to cling to a little optimism now and then.

Depends how you define a 'no brainer'. We have - I suspect - more frequent and more challenging driving conditions here in the Yorkshire Dales than you in Cheshire, and yet relatively few drivers around here fit winter tyres, and those who venture out without them encounter relatively few problems (evidence based on my neighbours - mostly elderly and with everyday vehicles). I have no doubt that winter tyres do make driving in poor conditions much easier but - as with most aspects of driving - at least as much is down to the attitude and driving style of the person behind the wheel. I have seen sensible drivers cope admirably in appalling conditions without any kind of aid (in the days long before ABS, ESP and all the rest) while hotheads of all ages and genders have been left looking very silly. The cliche - true, as are all cliches or else they wouldn't achieve that status - that 'a bad workman blames his tools' applies to driving as much as to anything else.

With 40+ years experience of driving in all conditions, I agree totally with your comment about the driver's attitude to driving being the main contribution to success or failure in adverse conditions. However, I had never previously found a car so difficult to control on snow as my Yet in 2010. I lost control in circumstances that I most certainly would have coped with admirably in previous cars, crawling along at just 10 mph.

I can only put my difficulty down to wide tyres sitting on top of snow rather than cutting into it, coupled with electronics that refused to let me apply brakes gently and steer out of a "slow motion" skid.

I'm getting old ...

... but you do drive well in the snow!

I didn't know that had been made public!

Nokian WRG2's all round on our tdi 4x4 Yeti on 16" winter wheels. No problems with the snow at all. These tyres seem to stick to the road very well, indeed inspiring confidence. Only recently realised that these tyres are not snowflaked marked! I bought them a couple of years ago after they were recommended on this forum. So far - no regrets at all.

If driving abroad at this time of the year would these tyres be acceptable to the police as they are not snowflaked?

Just had a more careful look at the sidewalls of the tyres and indeed they ARE snowflaked!

With 40+ years experience of driving in all conditions, I agree totally with your comment about the driver's attitude to driving being the main contribution to success or failure in adverse conditions. However, I had never previously found a car so difficult to control on snow as my Yet in 2010. I lost control in circumstances that I most certainly would have coped with admirably in previous cars, crawling along at just 10 mph.

I can only put my difficulty down to wide tyres sitting on top of snow rather than cutting into it, coupled with electronics that refused to let me apply brakes gently and steer out of a "slow motion" skid.

I agree, the tyres do not have the most helpful profile - had you switched off the ESP as is recommended in the snow? My daughter has a Citroen DS3 which she found hopeless in recent conditions until she switched off the ESP, at which point it apparently became a dream to drive and outperformed several Volvos on a tricky slope in Sheffield.

... but you do drive well in the snow!

I wonder if my invite to John Haugland's Ice Rally School still stands from the time I serviced for the Works Team in the 1980's?

... but you do drive well in the snow!

With that much space around me and nothing coming the other way.... I'd certainly give it a go!

I have seen sensible drivers cope admirably in appalling conditions without any kind of aid (in the days long before ABS, ESP and all the rest) while hotheads of all ages and genders have been left looking very silly.

In the "good old days" people coped in the snow with summer tyres mainly because the standard tyres were narrow....... A 2CV with summer tyres will (I suspect) go most anywhere in the snow due to those super narrow tyres. It is the width of our wheels now that makes modern cars awful to drive on snow. Even basic cars now have standard tyres of at least 185 width or more!

You only need grip once in your life to be honest. That one emergency stop... that could change your life. So I'm sorry in my book one budgets for a set of winter tyres in the original price of the car. So you get an SE with a winter set instead of an Elegance. Bendy lights won't save your bacon, but decent tyres will. Ask this family:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...yshire-21176390

Very sad that. And had both those cars had winter tyres on would we have been reading that article? I doubt. So yes. Just the once in your life you need grip. Don't regret having had the wrong rubber on your car for the rest of your life when that one emergency stop did happen to happen to you.

Very sad, but what were they doing driving down a bridle path?

""The vehicles were being driven along a bridle path near to the Monsal Trail, north of the A6 near Buxton, when they came off the path and went into the River Wye at about 08:30 GMT.""

There are two sorts of people in this world those that make errors and those that know better.

That family is now without a father and I expect wished they'd made a different choice-if you make the effort Graham I suspect you could write the widow and the two young ones a note explaining their folly.

That bridle way is half a mile from their house. So I suspect they know it pretty well and use it all the time. The nature of this accident point to black ice I suspect - hence BOTH cars went off at the same spot. So even winter tyres might not have helped in this instance. But who knows. My point is just that you cannot put a value on a life nor the guilt you will live with for the rest of your life, if for the sake of £400 or so, you caused an accident that changed your or many other people's lives.

There are two sorts of people in this world those that make errors and those that know better.

That family is now without a father and I expect wished they'd made a different choice-if you make the effort Graham I suspect you could write the widow and the two young ones a note explaining their folly.

+1

I gonna bite my tongue and not say much for the sake of the quiet life except to say to Graham - you come across as a bloke who always offers "good" advice but seem never to have made a mistake yourself or made a bad judgement call and are quick to jump on people that are subject to human frailty in a tone which has the effect of getting their back up. And it's not just on this forum is it?

All Graham did was ask why they were on a bridle way!!!! Come on!!! And as I said these people probably use that road every day and have never once considered it as anything but "a road" taking them away or to their home. That technically it is called a bridle way is neither here nor there. They used it often and sadly two cars slipped on what I would presume was invisible ice. I don't think Graham meant any harm in stating that they were on a bridle way, which is not really a road in the normal sense, to use daily.

Please note that my first words were "very sad"!

The query is that this bridle path was not a vehicular Right of Way, so was it suitable for vehicular use? If it wasn't then whilst it is still a terrible thing to happen it was prevantable.

But whatever I say is going to be picked on, dissected and criticised.

My point is just that you cannot put a value on a life nor the guilt you will live with for the rest of your life, if for the sake of £400 or so, you caused an accident that changed your or many other people's lives.

Totally agree, plus spend / enjoy it while you can, you can't take it with you.

Totally agree, plus spend / enjoy it while you can, you can't take it with you.

Another member of the S.K.I Club?

(spending kids inheritance)

I'd say as long as you've got snow in winter, It's a question of “When?”, rather than “If” Britons finally agree that changing to winter rubber in winter is more or less necessary. I remember the same debate here in Russia a dozen years ago. I drove on all-season tires myself back then. And before that time few had even heard about winter tires. Things change, cars become more powerful and quick. Wheels just have to match other parts of the car performance-wise, and the car itself has to match the performance of other cars on the road. IMHO.

Another member of the S.K.I Club?

(spending kids inheritance)

Member?? I'm founder!

The query is that this bridle path was not a vehicular Right of Way, so was it suitable for vehicular use?

Purely in the spirit of clarification of facts, and not wishing to cast aspersions anywhere:

This BBC local news report states that the family comes from Blackwell Mill. The OS map indicates that the only vehicular access to Blackwell Mill is along an unfenced track which is also a bridle path - and which is clearly visible as a made track on aerial photographs. It's not an otherwise unprepared route across open fields, it's a surfaced track over which the public have right of way on foot, bicycle or horseback. I'm sure Johann is right: the family lives along that track and they drive it every day to get to and from, they weren't using it as an illicit short cut or anything like that. I think I'd blame poor wording of the report by the BBC for any misunderstanding. (From the BBC report referenced above, it turns out that the deceased actually worked for the Beeb in Salford.)

And yes, a very sad incident.

Edited 25 January, 201313 yr by ejstubbs

I've ridden along that bridleway many times - it is quite narrow and borders the River Wye, the bank is steep and loose and the river rises dramatically when in flood.

There are a number of properties served by the track and it is their legal access.

Very tragic outcome and a dreadful experience for all the family - even had they not been 'legally' using the track, this is no time to infer criticism.

I know a lot of people said that their smaller engined 2wd yetis were poor in the snow and putting the blame on to that as one of the reasons, (I'm sure it's a factor) but my 2wd yeti with a big 2.0 diesel engine sat over the drive wheels is probably just as bad.

I'm sure if I had some good winter tyres on, it would improve but I still can't see it being amazingly better.

My current 2wd yeti is terrible in the snow, I was shocked just how bad it was. I expected it to be at least as good as a focus or golf but I was left in my works car park tonight stuck while a golf a focus and lots of little cars all drove off. I know these people so know they didn't have snow tyres. Luckily a few of my colleagues remained to help me get out but it was so embarrassing (again)

Sorry for going off the previous subject of the poor family who had the accident, but I needed another rant.

I've had the same issues over the past few days in Devon. Greenline 1.6tdi Yeti behaving very poorly in the snow. I'm disappointed with it but then on the other hand I got 68.3mpg on a drive from Devon to Durham.

I drove home in a blizzard on the M8 last night. The outside lane was covered in snow and all other cars were crawling along at 30mph in the inside lane. My 2wd yeti had no problems cruising past in the fast lane . Only car to have used it as there were no other tracks.<br /><br />Your cars don't grip the surface, tyres do. If you tried walking on a snowy surface in smooth soled leather shoes would you conclude you weren't as good at walking on snow as a guy wearing good boots

Another 2WD Yeti on winter tyres here - same story. No problems at all in the snow even where other cars were getting hopelessly stuck. However, for me, that isn't the main argument for having them (although it is fun in the snow). As stated before winter tyres outperform summer tyres in the wet, and where the temperature is below 7C (pretty common in winter). Even very experienced drivers have to cope with emergencies, and in this instance that little bit of extra grip might make all the difference. Yes, £800 for wheels and tyres is a lot to find but worth it for me.