1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[TheClient]

Yes BLG - Euro 4. 125kw / 170ps.

 

Interesting that the design must have been so close to the limit for the extra 7-11kw to change things dramatically. Edit: And the Euro5 compliance.  However, I am aware of oil consumption problems in the Golf mk5 guise as well.   From reading that Revo guidance, it seems they would of never flashed mine - mine had a very spluttery idle from cold even with plug changes. Coil packs were original as far as I could tell, but it drove perfectly well even cold (I was always gentle when cold). Maybe the coil packs were fubar.

 

Revo comment suggests software update as well - ECU? Edit: Now not sure, as that document appears to only relates only to Euro 5?

 

Scans never recorded anything to do with misfires and driveability didn't suggest otherwise for 5.5 years! Even when I had it serviced 2 or 3 times at vw dealers they never picked up anything (I didn't ask specifically)! 

Edited 22 March, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

1 hour ago, TheClient said:

I've have had an EA888 2.0TSI in a vRS for 12 months. It's at 41k miles now. It doesn't use any oil between fixed interval oil changes. It has always been on fixed interval from new. I was running Quantum long life III 5W30 initially but now just go with Platinum 5W40 to  VW502.00. Mostly due to the fact the engine runs pretty hot, commonly (edit: oil temp) 100-105C on motorway and my thought process is the 30W viscocity could make oil usage and carbon build up worse at those temps due to thinning.

 

The service records indicate no plug changes before I purchased. I changed at 5.5 years 38k miles. Photo attached - they all looked pretty good, thew were Bosch Genuine VAG items.  I thought my Skoda service manual says something like 60k miles. Didn't fancy risking that!  They were double platinum so I suppose might last 50k miles.. I'd want to inspect though and by the time you've done that thought a new set wouldn't hurt.

 

 

 

I believe the fixed interval and correct VW 502.00 is what helps to keep your engine it that good condition. What I would check is the ACEA specification, even VW502.00 can have only Cx, what is not good for those EA888 as those need the "cleaning" power of "Full SAPS" oil. By the way, in Russia no LL service allowed, they must use only 0W30 VW502.00 and they especially highlighted it must be ACEA A3/B4. Isn´t it curious when VAG has its own norms? https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/419089-yeti-burning-oil-should-pistons-and-rods-be-replaced-as-well-as-piston-rings/?do=findComment&comment=4771837 Is sad that not all follow that ...

 

Your spark plugs looks in perfect condition, absolutely no oil in threads, no carbon on insulator/electrodes, perfectly clean. That must stay so for next thousands miles

 

Yeah, the twincharger is other story. EA888 are well known for oil issue, whole second generation from end 2008 to June 2011, and timing chain/tensioner issue, first and second generation till March 2012, when "K" tensioner has been introduced. Modified chains appeared first on end 2013.

 

Well, we all are only test drivers for the VAG ...

Edited 22 March, 2017 by rayx

[TheClient]

Every day is a school day for me it would seem! I didn't even know what ACEA is, let alone C(x) designations versus A(x)/B(x). Never come across its' importance before.  Seems Quantum Platinum VW 502.00 5W40 is C3 as is Long Life III 5W30  - all use base Castrol oils I believe. It seems all the Castrol marketed "Edge varieties i clicked before tying this were also C3..... Meaning all low SAPs for DPFs?

 

I've just changed the oil (it did about 7k miles). So will probably leave it for another 7k miles or so, may consider going to Mobil Super 3000 X1 5W40 which is VW502.00 and ACEA A3/B3 + A3/B4. So I suppose is a normal SAPS content oil?!  Not sure I fully understand the classifications, but you have got me thinking, I have another 11 months to get my head around it - thanks.

 

Totally Bizarre too, as I recall it, VW doesn't allow Platinum 5W40 to be used in Diesels with particulate filters yet it is low SAPS C3 grade... confusing or what.

 

Yes, it would seem we are test drivers for VAG and it would also appear across the group, different norms are applied for service guidance in different countries not only explained by climate variations!

Edited 22 March, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

Yes, world is not that simple as Simply Clever Yes, now do not worry, drive normal fixed interval with what you have in engine, than think about another possibility. VAG has own norms, other brands too, and than is API for America and ACEA for Europe. And it all must coexist ...

 

But, EA888 have a design flaw of piston rings, so right oil only fights better with its results. I believe the recommendation for Russian market, besides the viscosity, is good one.

 

C2-C3 are mid-Saps, but A3/B4 have yet richer content of SAPS.

 

http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

http://www.oilspecifications.org/

http://www.acea.be/news/article/oils-lubricants

 

http://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-documents/oil-categories

Edited 22 March, 2017 by rayx

[Ootohere]

Sorry OTT but might interest some, and the engines and Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Material & Component Choice Failures and failures in QC are common 

due to the VW Group and being 3 monkeys.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/421365-links-to-lucifers-ultimate-guide-to-14-tsi-twincharger-engines

http://adamlewin.co.uk/vw-mk5-golf-tsi-engine-timing-chain-problem 

[TheClient]

Yes, lots of detailed info there. Clearly some of those problems for the Euro 5 1.4Tsi twin charger thread  were a carry over from the Euro 4 engine. However, they seem to be more of them and became more severe in the latter higher tune versions.  Certainly, timing chain tensioner / timing chain (in common with EA888), water pump / Supercharger activation and rings / pistons, plastic rad tanks were weaknesses I was aware of or became aware of! Luckily I only got afflicted by one of them. 

[hitthenorth]

I've nervously followed this thread for the last three years. I'm hoping to shortly part with my Octavia 1.8Tsi, but am rather forced to go for another petrol engine as although I do some long journeys, they can be few and far between.

 

Given all the excellent knowledge in the last few posts, I was wondering what manufacturer's petrol engines, say from 2013 onwards, people rate for reliability. I love the Octavia, but with a previous diesel one's DMF starting to fail, and the problems discussed in this thread with oil consumption and timing chains, I'm thinking of a 1.6L Kia Sportage. At least then there's a good warranty.

[rayx]

7 hours ago, TheClient said:

The service records indicate no plug changes before I purchased. I changed at 5.5 years 38k miles. Photo attached - they all looked pretty good, thew were Bosch Genuine VAG items.  I thought my Skoda service manual says something like 60k miles. Didn't fancy risking that!  They were double platinum so I suppose might last 50k miles.. I'd want to inspect though and by the time you've done that thought a new set wouldn't hurt.

I forgot to tell you, I changed mine on 1.8 TSI at 88kkm/54,6k miles and were still in a good shape, genuine NGK for VAG. Just sorry for the quality of the photo, must make better one soon.

Few more details here, as same engine used across brand and VAG, VAG has 3 versions, Bosch, NGK ane Beru at ETKA

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/426100-superb-oil-consumption/?do=findComment&comment=4837401

 

Edited 22 March, 2017 by rayx

[TheClient]

Photo of plugs is reasonable. They all look good really, electrodes and insulators a little hard to see in detail of photo due to some blurring.  But with your attention and detail knowledge, I'm sure you examined closely on removal!

[TheClient]

20 hours ago, hitthenorth said:

I've nervously followed this thread for the last three years. I'm hoping to shortly part with my Octavia 1.8Tsi, but am rather forced to go for another petrol engine as although I do some long journeys, they can be few and far between.

 

Given all the excellent knowledge in the last few posts, I was wondering what manufacturer's petrol engines, say from 2013 onwards, people rate for reliability. I love the Octavia, but with a previous diesel one's DMF starting to fail, and the problems discussed in this thread with oil consumption and timing chains, I'm thinking of a 1.6L Kia Sportage. At least then there's a good warranty.

Does sound like a petrol car is required.  My understanding is it is more about the amount and frequency of short trips probably more so than total miles.  Lots and lots of short trips and no frequent (say 20 - 30 mile plus trips)  will make it very hard for the DMF and software hardware combinations to manage the situation in any make of current diesel emission car really.

 

If you have avoided any significant oil usage problems in your 1,8tsi, that is a good win for you! What mileage is it on?

 

As to your question, most of the content here is obviously targeted on Skoda / VAG cars.  You might be lucky and get someone who is in the know across marques but a long shot probably.  You may be best trying to locate a Kia owner forum site (not sure if any exist). Or start googling model, spec of car, engine code or spec if you can find it and read.  Honest John also seems to have a fairly good indication based on contributor posts to get a feeling about cars.

 

Googling or other search engine is your friend here - devote some time to it and maybe copy and paste content and links so you can refer to it at the end as you compile some research over a few days?  That is how I would approach anyway.

 

Personally, as far as a soft off roader goes they look reasonable, they are well priced, and the warranty - either they build them pretty well or have a big warranty budget.   Either way it gives you some piece of mind.  The 1.6L petrol base model as far as I recall is normally aspirated and is going to feel very busy and underpowered (edit: I probably mean more driveability and torque at low to mid revs, rather than outright power) compared to what you are used to, unfortunately IMO..... Edit; The turbo 1.6 would be a lot better match based on what you are used to - not sure of reliability of either though.

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 March, 2017 by TheClient

[hitthenorth]

Thanks. Yes going back to a car that takes double digit seconds to get to 60 will be one of the hardest compromises.

 

Mileage is 35,000 and it appears I seem to have started going through oil. Next service is due very soon (fixed 12 months) but hoping to change before that.

[TheClient]

12 minutes ago, hitthenorth said:

Thanks. Yes going back to a car that takes double digit seconds to get to 60 will be one of the hardest compromises.

 

Mileage is 35,000 and it appears I seem to have started going through oil. Next service is due very soon (fixed 12 months) but hoping to change before that.

Oh dear. On fixed services too, only 35k miles. Always been on fixed services?

 

Make sure you are using a good VW502.00 oil and you could try using one in a 5W40 (a lot are) forumalation if you have just started to use oil. It may improve it. What oil do you use now?

 

Based on what rayx has told me in posts above, an Acea A3/B4 oil would be better than C(x) designations which I seem to have used with Quantum, catrol and Mobil 1 ESP oils in the past.   Would of been better for both of us to be aware of that earlier though, to keep things a bit cleaner! Looking at a few oils yesterday, Mobil 1 3000x1 5W40 would be suitable - there will be others but I didn't go looking far, as I've just done an oil change.

 

Taking for a drive and getting up to operating temp and driving a bit harder in the mid to higher revs (say 3000-4500 range)  may help remove some carbon build up as well.

 

There are other possibilities I suppose too - PCV system, oil leak, turbo et al. Have a look at those, however, the piston / ring design is a real problem.

Edited 23 March, 2017 by TheClient

[Keep the faith]

Failed tensioner on my 2010 2.0tsi vRS (CCZA), been at engine specialist for analysis and rebuild work.  Car on 71K miles and been serviced as required.

Dissapointed that SKODA UK are showing no interest in my issue or my brand loyalty.  

 

I was told when purchasing in May 2016, that the chain would 'never have to be replaced'.  However I am now aware that there is a very well documented tensioner failure which causes various degrees of engine damage.  The online information relating to this failed part is astonishing and its been covered in the press etc, Skoda denied any knowledge of tensioner issues when i contacted them, which i found strange.

 

I've contacted Trading Standards for some info and await an update.

Edited 23 March, 2017 by Keep the faith

[TheClient]

51 minutes ago, Keep the faith said:

Failed tensioner on my 2010 2.0tsi vRS (CCZA), been at engine specialist for analysis and rebuild work.  Car on 71K miles and been serviced as required.

Dissapointed that SKODA UK are showing no interest in my issue or my brand loyalty.  

 

I was told when purchasing in May 2016, that the chain would 'never have to be replaced'.

 

If you purchased from a motor trader (i.e. Skoda dealer or an independent motor trader) I would rate you as having decent chances against them as the selling dealer, under consumer law, as the product has not been sufficiently durable or fit for purpose, (edit: lasting less than 12 months before major repair.)

 

As silly as it sounds, it would be much, much harder to bring a successful action against Skoda, even though it is their deficient design and manufacture process. [Edit: So if Skoda is not playing ball, it is difficult to progress that angle.]

Edited 23 March, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

Not only Skoda ... In fact, EA888 are Audi engines made in Gyor(HU) for Europe, other brands in concern just buy it from them. The issue is whole VAG concern and its brands have same attitude to this well known problem ...

[TheClient]

Yes, when I used Skoda, I mean Skoda UK more fully and specifically as a part of VAG group, whose several marques are equally affected by the same issues.

[rayx]

I meant it in general, that Audi is the origin of the problem, other brands just share it. Yes, they have done big mistakes, but never admit that ...

 

Maybe this will help yet someone

Technical product information 2025206_7.pdf

Technical product information 2024485_7.pdf

Edited 23 March, 2017 by rayx

[Ootohere]

The VW Group, or VW Group UK, Skoda UK, Audi UK, SEAT UK, VW UK are not going into court to defend an action in England/ Wales, or a Scottish or Northern Ireland Court against any Owners of a 1.4, 1.8 or 2.0TSI Euro 5 Emission engine, putting up an employee to defend the Actions or In-actions of the VW Group 

where there were Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Material, Components or Quality Control Issues.

Divulging the actual failure rate and replacement and upgrade parts they have supplied under Manufacturers Warranty or the number of failures and Warranty claims or out of Warranty refused / declined.

A president will be set and there will be the numbers on public record for owners to use in their court actions.

 

So get a Solicitor in England / Wales, or in Scotland or Northern Ireland depending on where you will raise a Civil Court Action against the VW Group, 

then the Independent Motor Engineers Report, or 2, then have your legal representative start your action.

See the VW Group in Court if it gets that far.

The VW Groups Legal Advisers know where the VW Group will get with their defence.  

A very very costly judgement with costs against them is going to become much more when multiplied several thousand times with all the other owners they rubbered.

Edited 23 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[TheClient]

But, as a third party to VW Group, a used purchaser has very limited avenues to bring any such action against a vehicle manufacturer or importer. Much, much stronger consumer protection against selling dealer IMO.

[Ootohere]

If you say so.

I know how some of those landed from buying new or used 1.4TSI Oil Users and engine failures have got on when the last Brand Director of Skoda UK Alasdair Stewart had time 'to think again' when Owners with 

vehicles he was responsible for the company he headed having imported and sold and had UK Warranties on vehicles with Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Materials, or Quality Control failures.

 

He had his background with the VW Group, Bentley etc in After Sales and Warranties, as does the new CEO who knows all the failure numbers 

or the affected engines, so pursue the Dealership or the Manufacturers / Importers, but you need the evidence you can gather, 

your experts opinions and then your Solicitor or Lawyer can get the VW Group or Skoda, VW. Audi or SEAT to come up with their defence if they want to go to court.

 

Oddly in the past they have had some sign confidentiality agreements when they were able to reach some agreement to rectify the failings of Skoda CZ / VW / Skoda UK.

3 monkeys being the way they act, but a Court in England / Wales or Scotland or Northern Ireland is unlikely to just accept denial as a defence.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced 

 

vRS MK2 ENGINE REPLACEMENT_ ARE ALL CUSTOMERS GETTING CONSISTENT TREATMENT FROM Skoda UK andDealersips - Skoda Fabia Mk II - BRISKODA.mhtml

Edited 23 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Ootohere]

Here is another owner that 'Had them think again' just recently,

and prodded their collective memories somewhere at 'SKODA' where denial or having owners jumping through rings is the corporate way.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/252849-12-tsi-timing-chain-recall/?page=4 

 

Edited 23 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[TheClient]

It's not me who says so, it is the way the law operates and is/has been formulated to operate.

 

Put another way,  If Skoda UK or VW group refuse to make good damage and repair the fault for the poster we are talking about here, under what area of civil law will he or she be bringing an action against the importer or manufacturer? And how does that compare with the strength of consumer statutory law?

 

I'm trying to be practical and pragmatic in the advice given without getting carried away with go to court and make a point for the little man! We are on the same side here.

 

If you've got any precedent,  for a civil case,  succesfully brought against VW group, by a single claimant who purchased a used car, successfully bringing an action for  a deficient part that causes engine damage, I'd be eternally grateful for a reference. 

[Ootohere]

You can lead a horse to water!

The point is those cases do not exist in a English / Welsh Court, or in Scotland or Northern Ireland, 

because a 'Resolution' was reached, i gave you examples of many that were knocked back refused any Warranty Repair or Engine Replacement 

but some had the Engineers Reports and others Engineers Reports & Facts and Figures that some BRISKODA members could furnish and no Court Actions were required.

 

Good luck with anyone having issues, if a Dealership sold you a vehicle they knew had a fault, or sold you a Warranty then say it does not cover the 'Known Faults', 

you know who knew, Dealership, Technicians and Skoda / VW UK Employees.

[TheClient]

That is fine in the cases where the manufacturer / importer think again and reach resolution. Often they do not. So then what do you do - how can you take the next step by taking them to court?. My thinking for a used purchaser of a vehicle is a tort and it's probably going to be negligence, and there is a lot of hoops to win that case.

 

With a dealer, if they refuse to resolve,  you have the written law on your side, rather than common law. The consumer rights act is a much clearer cut area of law with history and reasonable expectations carried over from sale of goods act,  to bring a case which could be heard at minimal cost,  under the small claims process.  The risks are far less, time frame much shorter and chance of success higher.

 

By all means, I say try VW group but if they lock down and refuse to reconsider then you need to consider what courses of action are open to help with your predicament and their relative chances of success. 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Sorry for my silliness,

i thought we were all on the same understanding, & if your Consumer Rights and the law is working and you get a vehicle fit for purpose by the retailer 

doing the right thing or with a prod from Trading Standards via the CAB then that is the way to go.

 

The bigger pictures is the Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Materials, Component Choice & Quality Control failing lay with the VW Group, 

so when you need to poke with a stick you poke them.