1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[kr1s]

Hi

I'm sorry if this has already been covered - I've read a lot of this long thread but admittedly not every post.

Has anyone produced a "How to" on replacing the tensioner?

I recently bought a January 2011 f/l petrol VRs and am considering whether to replace the tensioner with the latest version myself.

Many thanks

Chris

[rayx]

7 hours ago, aantikk said:

The intake sensor is faulty, we're waiting for the new one. Is it possible the noise to be from it?

Unlikely, but you will see, who knows what it is in fact.

 

7 hours ago, kr1s said:

Hi

I'm sorry if this has already been covered - I've read a lot of this long thread but admittedly not every post.

Has anyone produced a "How to" on replacing the tensioner?

I recently bought a January 2011 f/l petrol VRs and am considering whether to replace the tensioner with the latest version myself.

Many thanks

Chris

Yes, surely a must to do if still on "N, T or AB" tensioner, but not a simple job, few tricks, especially the bottom chain sprocket. See workshop manual, guess not a DIY ...

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk6/power_unit/4-cylinder_injection_engine_(1.8_and_2.0_l_engine_chain_drive)/engine_cylinder_head_valve_gear/chain_drive/camshaft_timing_chain_exploded_view/

 

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk6/power_unit/4-cylinder_injection_engine_(1.8_and_2.0_l_engine_chain_drive)/engine_cylinder_head_valve_gear/chain_drive/removing_and_installing_camshaft_timing_chain/

 

Edited 20 October, 2017 by rayx

[TheClient]

Yes, there are some videos and some DIYs if you look hard enough and wide enough like Golf Mk6 GTI. US Eos etc. It does seem quite a job and takes an experienced mechanic with all the tools and experience 4.5 hours plus.   If you've got an undercover garage and can take your time I think it is doable with some specialist tooling.

[kr1s]

Thanks for the replies guys.

It looks like I need to find a garage who'll take it on. My initial attempt didn't go well - the main dealer never got back to me with a price for doing the replacement, (when asked whether they could check the tensioner their response was that if there were no symptoms there was nothing they could do) and my local independent VAG specialist told me they'd never heard of any problems with the tensioner on my engine - they just said that the first generations had oil consumption problems, but mine was second generation and it was no longer an issue - does that bit sound right?

[TheClient]

No, not really. @rayx has a lot more knowledge of the detail parts catalogue changes than I, but there were/are problems in the second generation 2.0TSI and 1.8TSIs, just look through these threads! From memory there were changes mid 2011 and possibly again in 2012.  On the tensioner, it was changed to current revision end of 1st qtr 2012.  Subsequent revisions to chain.  All from memory, so take those as indicative.

 

Any dealer or VAG specialist should of seen failed tensioners and should know what it takes to replace preventatively, without engine damage. Sounds like you need to find another dealer or specialist. 

 

Edit: Trouble is this is the sort of cr@p filtering and mis information you get at front of house with inexperience. Who knows, the tech staff at wherever you have approached could be top notch, but when you get given the wrong information and push back from service advisors, it is hardly re-assuring to push further with them!

 

So, can't check a single thing.....bit laughable isn't.  No timing cover inspection plug removal, no interrogation of timing measurements, no manufacture production date to give advice on what revision it will be running. Nothing they can do. Really bad....

Edited 23 October, 2017 by TheClient

[kr1s]

1 hour ago, TheClient said:

 

So, can't check a single thing.....bit laughable isn't.  No timing cover inspection plug removal, no interrogation of timing measurements, no manufacture production date to give advice on what revision it will be running. Nothing they can do. Really bad....

 

This bit of the exercise made me quite angry - not only refusing to acknowlege a known issue, but also telling me rubbish when asked about preventative measures - basically wait until it's a £5k+ failure.... Grrrr.

Anyway, I will take your advise and approach some other local specialists to see what they say.

 

Thanks again for the reply

[rayx]

Yes, TheClient is right, I do not understand how people at VAG or independent VAG specialist can speak so much rubbish ... The whole EA888 family from its begining in 2007 till March 2012 is in dangerous risk, see the list from the first page of this thread ... In Czech another failed tensioner ruined BZB engine (produced June 2008) last week, very sad story, Skoda service advisor said "not necessary to do anything with timing, there is a chain and it will last long" and during a month total destruction ... But it is all about failing tensioners and its failed safety. Tensioners ending N, T and AB are timed bombes ...

 

That BZB engine, failed timing and ruined head and likely all conrods, the worst case I have ever seen ...

 

https://forum.skodahome.cz/topic/140719-18-tsi-superb-2009-motor-ko/?do=findComment&comment=2272702

 

To compare old style tensioners and what is inside, look at this link, T tensioner replaced at 76kkm, safety still intact but nobody knows ...

https://forum.skodahome.cz/topic/138771-motor-nejde-nastartovat-diagnostika-bez-poruchy-přeskočené-rozvody/?do=findComment&comment=2265029

 

and new style K tensioner for Gen1+2 and P tensioner for Gen3 EA888 engines compared here, photos say everything

https://www.drive2.ru/b/464293524913783371/

Edited 23 October, 2017 by rayx

[kr1s]

I called my other local specialist (JKM in Portsmouth) and they are aware of the issue and are going to replace the tensioner and chain for £485.

Edited 27 October, 2017 by kr1s
posted before proof reading

[SimpsonMrG]

So, am I too assume buying a 2.0 TSI vRS from 09 - 11 is a bad idea?

[Ootohere]

Only if you buy a bad one or one that has not been dealt with, many have been, the correct parts now fitted and issues resolved.

A lottery if you can not or do not do the research and due diligence.

[Willscout]

Just purchased (13.11.17) my 2010 1.8Tsi Octavia Scout. 61,000 miles. 

 

Only had the car a week, but driving home yesterday the oil light came on. Stopped and checked the dip stick. Totally dry! Oil temp was 93 degrees, and car was running fine, no smoke, and no obvious leaks. 

 

Contacted garage (independant dealer) and they are coming to collect the car, put some oil in it, and then drive it back to their garage to inspect the lose of oil! 

 

I had done 300 miles since purchase, and upon purchase the garage put 1 litre of oil in it, and filter change. Full 12 months MOT with no high emissions results.

 

Will be speaking with garage later... Whilst not an obvious timing chain/tensioner issue (I don't think anyway) i'm wondering of I should get the work done at the same time as this "issue" is sorted? Or, do I just ask for a refund... 

[Ootohere]

Welcome.

Consider rejection. 

 Not 2 or 3 chances to repair, or rebuild engine, unless they want to replace with a New Base Engine, 

walk away. Car not fit for purpose, now you know of known faults and so will the Dealership, their loss, get shot of it.

[Willscout]

Engine hasn't actually failed. if the chain and tensioner are also replaced then car/engine should be good?

 

That said, why there is no/very little oil in the engine is concerning me! 

 

Least the dealer is taking care of it. 

[Ootohere]

Good luck then.

Had you checked the Fluid levels when you inspected the car,

or checked the Oil level when cold when you collected the car?

 

What oil does the invoice show as being put in at the service?

 

You get a short period to reject, and that is now.

Take care about a Warranty that might not cover known issues or only covers up to a certain maximum.

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[Willscout]

No, they had just serviced the car, so I perhaps naively assumed the oil would be fine. Coolant levels were correct, as I did check those. 

[Ootohere]

Assuming anything is dangerous, dangerous to your wallet.

 

Best find out the Service History, and Warranty history from the Skoda Service System.

Get Skoda UK CS to email it to you.

http://skoda.co.uk/about-us/contact-us 

[TheClient]

@Willscout if you read back through this failure thread or do a search on 1.8TSI high oil consumption you will read about the problems. Most of the time it catches people after a month or two so driving and their resolution options are more limited. It is entirely separate problem to the timing chain tensioner which may also be a problem in a 2010 if not replaced. Unless the dealer is swapping out the base engine or doing a rebuild with mod pitons, rings, conrods now is a very good time to consider your options as @Headinawayoffski pointed out.

 

Edited 20 November, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

1 hour ago, Willscout said:

I had done 300 miles since purchase, and upon purchase the garage put 1 litre of oil in it, and filter change. Full 12 months MOT with no high emissions results.

As already pointed out by Headinawayoffski and TheClient, only option is to return the car to seller. What you wrote is a bit strange, did they not change the oil but just the filter and topped 1 litre of oil??? Anyway, you drove only 300miles and the dipstick was dry, that means less than marked minimum, what makes sure more than one litre. Do you think they topped only to minimum on dipstick? If yes, still would mean at least 1l of oil per 300miles. If not and was at maximum, that is another 1liltre between max-min marks ... Must go back, sour lemon ...

Edited 20 November, 2017 by rayx

[Willscout]

I agree, that just topping up the oil is a bit strange. The chap I spoke to today was a salesman, not a mechanic, so could have got that wrong. 

 

Either way, I agree with all the views above, gutted as I love the car and they do seem hard to find, but i'm not going to live with that level of oil consumption! 

 

Will wait to speak with the dealer this afternoon after they have checked it over and put oil in it, however I fear that the only way I'll know for sure, is to do another 300 + miles. 

 

Thanks again everybody, appreciate the advise. 

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Willscout

[Ootohere]

Oil can be checked cold obviously and will be higher on the dipstick,

and 'Warm' is wrong, (SKODA Lost in TRanslation) it is 'At Operating Temperature',  So not 5 minutes ticking over. Over 50*oC Indicated, after up to 80*oC is better, 

so that takes more than 6 miles of driving.

[rayx]

I am sure that car has the issue of blocked oil crapping/control rings. When you speak with that garage again, be there and insist on taking all four spark plugs out to see their condition. If they look bad, threads full of oil, it´s clear what is happening. Do not tell them in advance so they can not be prepared on you

 

Edited 20 November, 2017 by rayx

[Willscout]

I checked again this morning after the car had been sat all night. Nothing at all, dipstick totally dry. 

 

The car was serviced 12 months ago by a different garage, Has since then done arond 5,000 miles. Worth giving them a call, see if high oil consumption was something they picked up on. Or if they checked the chain tensioner! 

 

@rayx missed your response. They have taken the car now, going to see what they say later. Good point though! 

 

 

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Willscout

[rayx]

Would not loose time, start to solve how quick can you reject/return it. At least 1l oil per 300 miles say everything (VAG allows up to 0,5l per 621miles and even this is too much), the trick with spark plugs is only to support you with evidence when they are not willing to take it back without problems.

Edited 20 November, 2017 by rayx

[Ootohere]

Best contact last Registered Keeper if possible, they can be nice and helpful or say bog off, but always worth a try.

[Centipede]

I have a  very similar problem, but left it too late (took a while to realise it was bad, and getting worse)

I am now in protracted negotiations with Skoda, who set  a very high level for 'normal' oil consumption.

They now appear to be recommending a phase of extended investigations which may cost me/you dear, with no guarantee of a resolution.

There is a very well known problem with the oil rings which are very easily blocked. Unfortunately, the 'cure' is replacing the pistons+rings and con rods.

I would STRONGLY recommend getting rid of this car asap. It is simply not fit for purpose.

 

PS my own spark plugs appear normal, even with a similar level of oil use to you. Also, all that oil must be getting burnt and going through the engine, and is almost certainly damaging the catalytic converter. My own oil is also getting a lot of pieces of carbon (visible on changing oil), and you just don't know what further damage this load is doing.

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Centipede
word left out