1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[APEX]

2010 2.0 tsi Vrs estate 60,000 miles. Chain Tensioner failure, OBD code P0016 cam/ crank correlation. Been home serviced for the last 2 years so straight to my local Indy for repair, damage had been done so as well as new      timing chain and latest tensioner it needed new valves as well. Also got them to change the water pump and belt at the same time. Bill of £2500....will be keeping it a bit longer now!

[Pods]

2 hours ago, APEX said:

2010 2.0 tsi Vrs estate 60,000 miles. Chain Tensioner failure, OBD code P0016 cam/ crank correlation. Been home serviced for the last 2 years so straight to my local Indy for repair, damage had been done so as well as new      timing chain and latest tensioner it needed new valves as well. Also got them to change the water pump and belt at the same time. Bill of £2500....will be keeping it a bit longer now!

Sorry to hear it's gone wrong for you but from what I have read of others experience could have been so much worse

[Generic_Username]

Well, my 2005 BWA timing chain tensioner failed... but was caused by the oil pump chain tensioner failing, which broke the chain, which oil pressure drop, and ensured the upstairs took a battering. Miraculously, and thankfully, the oil pump/balance shaft unit survived the experience... think the head escaped too, as the cam chain didn't skip or break

 

 

[clarky2]

My race blue estate is now in the classifieds on here looking for someone that knows about these engines/can source a replacement engine at reasonable cost. Gutted that what was such a great car should be ruined by an issue like this.

[King85]

2 hours ago, clarky2 said:

My race blue estate is now in the classifieds on here looking for someone that knows about these engines/can source a replacement engine at reasonable cost. Gutted that what was such a great car should be ruined by an issue like this.

Have you taken the head off? Mine was just bent intake valves.

[clarky2]

Mine was actually still running when I took it in for investigation of an intermittent fault. There was clearly some metal on metal contact visible on the head and the oil pressure valve (gauze and bearing) had also disintegrated.

 

Initially a repair was authorised, but once metal particles were found in the sump oil the dealer said they could not warranty any repair as they didn't know what other damage may have occurred. The only option then became a new engine. 

[King85]

1 hour ago, clarky2 said:

Mine was actually still running when I took it in for investigation of an intermittent fault. There was clearly some metal on metal contact visible on the head and the oil pressure valve (gauze and bearing) had also disintegrated.

 

Initially a repair was authorised, but once metal particles were found in the sump oil the dealer said they could not warranty any repair as they didn't know what other damage may have occurred. The only option then became a new engine. 

I'd strongly recommend taking it to a specialist engine firm and seeing how much to rebuild it as you may find £1-1.5k gets you a sorted vehicle to sell. 

[Generic_Username]

I'd strongly recommend taking anywhere but main dealers - they're not really trained or capable of doing deep mechanical work. Most of their daily work involves plugging scanners in and fitting new parts.

 

Fundamentally, as long as a rod hasn't gone through the side of the block, the block or head aren't cracked, and the crank isn't snapped, you'll find it an easy enough thing to get an engine specialist to do.

 

I'd be budgeting £8k for a full rebuild, with Stage 3 tuning, inc hybrid blower, big intercooler, and probably some water-methanol injection (just for the smell).

 

When my earlier BWA engine went south I rang Ivor Searles - they didn't have a BWA on the shelf, so would have to rebuild my unit. Including fully rebuilt head, new balance shaft unit, mains and rod bearings, new rings, bore honing, the lot - £3500.

 

Actually changing the engine round is a two-three day job. If you're in no rush, most independents will be happy to agree a fixed price. Ring round.

 

Letting it go for £1500 because the stealers said £8000 is, in my opinion, silly. 

 

[clarky2]

21 minutes ago, Generic_Username said:

I'd strongly recommend taking anywhere but main dealers - they're not really trained or capable of doing deep mechanical work. Most of their daily work involves plugging scanners in and fitting new parts.

 

Fundamentally, as long as a rod hasn't gone through the side of the block, the block or head aren't cracked, and the crank isn't snapped, you'll find it an easy enough thing to get an engine specialist to do.

 

I'd be budgeting £8k for a full rebuild, with Stage 3 tuning, inc hybrid blower, big intercooler, and probably some water-methanol injection (just for the smell).

 

When my earlier BWA engine went south I rang Ivor Searles - they didn't have a BWA on the shelf, so would have to rebuild my unit. Including fully rebuilt head, new balance shaft unit, mains and rod bearings, new rings, bore honing, the lot - £3500.

 

Actually changing the engine round is a two-three day job. If you're in no rush, most independents will be happy to agree a fixed price. Ring round.

 

Letting it go for £1500 because the stealers said £8000 is, in my opinion, silly. 

 

 

Interesting, Ivor Searles are actually just up the road from here in Soham. To be fair their website and approach looks amazing as you are effectively buying an a new engine. I'll contact them.

 

The issue for me is that I've already secured a contribution towards another vehicle and I'm looking to cut my losses further by selling my car on. Based upon your costings, replacing the engine and selling on would potentially get me another £1-£1.5K back, but would also require another investment of time and money that I don't have. Hopefully selling it on here in it's current state will be a great project for the right person and they will end up with a properly sorted VRS at a bit of a saving.

 

By the way the petrol VRS estate is a great sleeper.  

[King85]

10 hours ago, clarky2 said:

 

Interesting, Ivor Searles are actually just up the road from here in Soham. To be fair their website and approach looks amazing as you are effectively buying an a new engine. I'll contact them.

 

The issue for me is that I've already secured a contribution towards another vehicle and I'm looking to cut my losses further by selling my car on. Based upon your costings, replacing the engine and selling on would potentially get me another £1-£1.5K back, but would also require another investment of time and money that I don't have. Hopefully selling it on here in it's current state will be a great project for the right person and they will end up with a properly sorted VRS at a bit of a saving.

 

By the way the petrol VRS estate is a great sleeper.  

My rebuild cost £1500 so I think you'd be closer to £3k profit at a minimum to be honest. 

[KoJoTe]

1,8 TSI (10/2009), cdaa engine, currently at 130.000 km (all standard)... Excessive oil consumption from 100.000 km and at 130.000 engine faliure.. broken valve, melted spark plug and piston... Currently in repair... Rebuild cost should be approx 3500 €.

[TheClient]

On 04/03/2017 at 17:15, KoJoTe said:

1,8 TSI (10/2009), cdaa engine, currently at 130.000 km (all standard)... Excessive oil consumption from 100.000 km and at 130.000 engine faliure.. broken valve, melted spark plug and piston... Currently in repair... Rebuild cost should be approx 3500 €.

Nice photo. The third cylinder down looks like the valve has a hole in it. The plug looks ok though maybe replaced initially?  Good luck, let us know how the rebuild goes.

[KoJoTe]

Yep, spark plug on pic is new one.. Old one was melted.. Rebuild is progressing... Headwork already done.. Exhaust valves are replaced (were destroyed due to carbon deposits, which was most likely the cause for the hole in one of the valves), two new intake valves, everything else was cleaned and checked.. Then we got a repair kit from Tornau Motoren (GER; excellent service) consisting from all gaskets, all three chains and related tensioners, 4 pistons (with new spec rings and 21 mm connecting bolt), bearings (1150 €)... Now we have to put the bottom part of the engine together, then we need to check injectors and ECU to see what was happening.. Hope to be back on the road next week.. 

[TheClient]

Sounds like the full works. Handy tip for supplier Tornau Motoren, never heard of them before.  I understand why you would want to check injectors, what are you looking at with the ECU?

[KoJoTe]

ECU check is just to make sure everything works as it should and that all maps and sensor readings are ok...

[KoJoTe]

Engine repaired (2500 €) and everything works ok so far (400 km). One of the exhaust valves broke due to bad material which done most of the damage.. And oil consuption issue is directly linked to DI and carbon buildup in the engine, blocking oil canals in pistons (especially ring no. 3; you can see the sooth in pic bellow)... Some new TSI engines are getting double injection (DI and manifold) with 8 injectors which solves the cause of all this..

Good luck to everyone with all those TSI engines.. 

Edited 18 March, 2017 by KoJoTe

[KoJoTe]

And carbon buildup on intake valves (130.000 km; and it's not actually that bad as some are experiencing)...

+ faulty exhaust valve.. 

[spottydog]

The valve might not have been faulty. The carbon build up could have caused a hot spot on that part of the valve. Either way it hasn't helped.

[KoJoTe]

True.. but we found some black spots and cracks within material.. And exhaust valves (at least in my case) haven't suffered so much from carbon buildup.. But yes.. we know where problems are.. 

[rayx]

I guess the exhaust valve got damaged by the electrode from the melted spark plug. Got in between valve and valve seat and ... Yes, only intake valves suffer from the carbon deposits because of DI as the first reason and retarded timing functioning as EGR as the second reason.

Edited 20 March, 2017 by rayx

[TheClient]

What causes the Spark Plug (edit: ground) electrode to melt or break off like that in the first place? Piston hot spot? Detonation from oil consumption? All or any combination of those? 

Edited 21 March, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

In the case of EA888 with higher than normal oil consumption I would say too much of oil in the chamber, that means higher temperature and longer burn than with petrol only. Trouble is that VAG limit of 0,5l oil per 1000km is too much already, I believe safe limit should be only up to 0,2l /1000 or 621. In fact, your mentioned reasons play surely a role too, but all begins with the oil. Temps can be that high that even middle electrode and insulator give up ... Few photos below collected over net

 

Look at those links below, these are already here. There is plenty of others over net ... Shame on VAG they leave majority of their customers with EA888 engines without a help ...

 

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=cs&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhartogtuning.nl%2Foh_ht_news.php%3Ff%3D84

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=cs&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvwts.ru%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D192986%26st%3D0

 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7155416-Nasty-spark-plugs!

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/audi-2l-tfsi-engines-oil-usage-issues.330258/

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/2-0-tfsi-known-oil-consumption-problem-2015-ongoing-thread-2009-2011-models.237270/

 

Edited 21 March, 2017 by rayx

[Ootohere]

Not just with the 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's Plugs.

These are also often the cause the damage with 1.4TSI Twincharger engines with Oil Users.

Bottom plugs are OEM with 25,000 miles, top DENSO from the same engine with over 30,000 miles covered.  

(VW changed the Plug Spec and the gap and never bothered changing the 40,000 miles Service Schedule / guidelines for changing spark plugs.)

The engine they came from is still fine at 70,000 miles on 3rd set of Spark Plugs now.

APR Stage 1 map and 99 ron having sorted out the crap Skoda Map / Engine Management.

& 5w 40 FS but not Castrol / Quantum Long life 5w 30 crap.

Edited 21 March, 2017 by Awayoffski

[TheClient]

Interesting stuff. Agree with the thrust of what you are saying. Funny that some of the VAG "experience"  seems to come down to luck of the draw. I had a mk5 twin charger for 5.5 years (from year 4 to 9.5 years, 37k to 70k miles).  It used no noticeable oil - I didn't fill up oil between annual services, no turbo or super charger failure.  But it did get a stretched timing chain at 42k miles 5 years! Just the timing chain but £1200 from a VW dealer ouch! It was always on fixed interval servicing.  I loved the engine though. It always had a lumpy spluttery idle especially when cold. Like an old carburetor modifed car!

 

I've have had an EA888 2.0TSI in a vRS for 12 months. It's at 41k miles now. It doesn't use any oil between fixed interval oil changes. It has always been on fixed interval from new. I was running Quantum long life III 5W30 initially but now just go with Platinum 5W40 to  VW502.00. Mostly due to the fact the engine runs pretty hot, commonly (edit: oil temp) 100-105C on motorway and my thought process is the 30W viscocity could make oil usage and carbon build up worse at those temps due to thinning.

 

The service records indicate no plug changes before I purchased. I changed at 5.5 years 38k miles. Photo attached - they all looked pretty good, thew were Bosch Genuine VAG items.  I thought my Skoda service manual says something like 60k miles. Didn't fancy risking that!  They were double platinum so I suppose might last 50k miles.. I'd want to inspect though and by the time you've done that thought a new set wouldn't hurt.

 

 

Edited 22 March, 2017 by TheClient

[Ootohere]

You had a Euro 4 Emission Twincharger which VW had not taken to 132-136kW without the correct Engine Management and consumables.

The Audi A1 185 ps was the same 1.4TFSI as the 180ps min 1.4TSI Twincharger, but Audi fitted different plugs and Coils and Map.

(Still used oil though at the same percentage of failures as the sister cars 2009-2012 & since, then VW Upgraded engines and still had to update Software several times 2012-2014)

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues