1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[Willscout]

Update:

Garaged picked car up, topped up oil, drove back (around 45 miles) checked level, and all was fine. 

 

Fair enough, but it's not gong to use all its oil in that time. 

 

Can't do a full inspection until tomorrow. Either way I'm going to ask for a full refund.

 

 @Centipede you're correct that much oil going through the engine could be causing all sorts of damage. 

[Ootohere]

Be sure to check the Oil when Engine & Oil stone cold when parked on the flat. see where on dip stick.

(Then do a Jabazuma check maybe.

Start the engine a few seconds, stop right away, see where it is on the dipstick.)

 

Then you need to drive about 10 miles and then stop, (5 plus miles in warmer weather maybe)

Skoda says in manuals  'Wait a few minutes' that is about 4 minutes,  not 15 or 30 minutes, 

that is not a few that is many, longer than a refueling stop.

See where the oil level is.  (Might be exactly the same as the Jabazuma check.)    

 

PITA but knowing you have enough oil before trips and after services is important.

amazing how many Technicians and Mechanics get that wrong.

 

Got to love those Mericans & VW USA but then people sue for anything, so explaining is good, 

and ladies do read the manuals sometimes and use nice clean cloths....

 

Edited 20 November, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[rayx]

22 minutes ago, Headinawayoffski said:

ladies do read the manuals sometimes and use nice clean cloths....

 

Yes, I could not believe they use likely microfibre cloth for such messy job American way, bur reading manuals important anywhere

[Willscout]

Further Update:

 

Dealer rang back offerng full refund, no issues at all. 

 

Off to find a diesel version now. 

[Ootohere]

Whole new kettle of fish there.  Buyer beware!.

Best look at Euro 6 or research 'The Fix' on Euro 5's.  Plenty threads on Briskoda. Maybe avoid with The Fix, or know the possible issues. 

Good luck.

[DBT85]

Does anyone happen to know when they stopped putting chocolate rings in the 1.8s? Anything i can look at on a new car to know? 

Edited 28 November, 2017 by DBT85

[blackspaven]

On 20/11/2017 at 13:50, AwaoffSki said:

Be sure to check the Oil when Engine & Oil stone cold when parked on the flat. see where on dip stick.

(Then do a Jabazuma check maybe.

Start the engine a few seconds, stop right away, see where it is on the dipstick.)

 

Then you need to drive about 10 miles and then stop, (5 plus miles in warmer weather maybe)

Skoda says in manuals  'Wait a few minutes' that is about 4 minutes,  not 15 or 30 minutes, 

that is not a few that is many, longer than a refueling stop.

See where the oil level is.  (Might be exactly the same as the Jabazuma check.)    

 

PITA but knowing you have enough oil before trips and after services is important.

amazing how many Technicians and Mechanics get that wrong.

 

Got to love those Mericans & VW USA but then people sue for anything, so explaining is good, 

and ladies do read the manuals sometimes and use nice clean cloths....

 

 

I just wanna know where she got that oil funnel in the picture, it looks bloody handy!!

[TheClient]

Could be a long way out of your way going to LA just to get a funnel to top up your oil! maybe their dealers sell them there...  

 

Something similar maybe:

https://www.raygrahams.com/products/120060-draper-26327-oil-funnel-with-tube.aspx?pv=39003&gclid=eaiaiqobchmi_6xqr7_t1wivzbxtch2awatreaqyayabegkejpd_bwe

 

Edited 3 December, 2017 by TheClient

[Ootohere]

Not meaning to be rude or sexist. but i remember similar to that funnel was on sale years ago as a travel accessory for females peeing while standing up.

It was for Sport & Leisure use and travel etc....

 

Handy to have in the car then, and maybe for Yeti drivers as the flow weakens.

 

Might have been on 'Dragons Den'. 

Ones design might have lead to the other products design, so no point getting a patent. 

Edited 3 December, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[blackspaven]

That's not a bad shout. She-wee is what I've known them to be called.

[Guest]

... should be sold with a health warning.

 

wifey threw it back at me when I gave her one as her birthday present.

 

[mstrbkr]

Hi all, appreciate the info I need may be in this thread, but it is very long.

 

My 65000 mile 1.8tsi Yeti requires new pistons and rings to (I hope) rectify the consumption issue - currently using 500ml in 400-500 miles. I have a ball park price of £2000-£2500 from Midland VW nr Cannock to carry out the work, and I’m wondering whether to go ahead with it. The pistons are the updated design that VAG released following all the failures. However original con rods would be retained. If it does fix the problem and it lasts for 60000 miles or even longer then I will go for it. But what’s the forum consensus - worth replacing pistons to fix this or is it new engine? Bought privately and issue has worsened during my ownership. In some ways it’s easier that’s I don’t have to chase a dealer down for a refund. Cheers.

 

Edit: Of course, getting rid of it is also an option. But I do not want a diesel, the 1.2tsi is gutless, and the 1.4 is rare.

Edited 28 December, 2017 by mstrbkr

[TheClient]

21 hours ago, mstrbkr said:

Hi all, appreciate the info I need may be in this thread, but it is very long.

 

My 65000 mile 1.8tsi Yeti requires new pistons and rings to (I hope) rectify the consumption issue - currently using 500ml in 400-500 miles. I have a ball park price of £2000-£2500 from Midland VW nr Cannock to carry out the work, and I’m wondering whether to go ahead with it. The pistons are the updated design that VAG released following all the failures. However original con rods would be retained. If it does fix the problem and it lasts for 60000 miles or even longer then I will go for it. But what’s the forum consensus - worth replacing pistons to fix this or is it new engine? Bought privately and issue has worsened during my ownership. In some ways it’s easier that’s I don’t have to chase a dealer down for a refund. Cheers.

 

Edit: Of course, getting rid of it is also an option. But I do not want a diesel, the 1.2tsi is gutless, and the 1.4 is rare.

 

There is some detail in this thread somewhere, Plus @rayx , from my recollection, has posted in this thread and other stand alone threads before. From my memory the updated piston and ring design required the con rods to be changed because of the different pin diameter...

 

The new oil scraper ring is improved but can still suffer from the same problem but in theory should last longer than original. Especially if care with type of oil used and fixed regime. Were you on variable service regime?

 

You don't say what year or month of manufacture your yeti is but the other problem that probably needs attending is the timing chain tensioner, that will push costs up further. Maybe approaching engine swap out cost? Have they said what that would be?

 

I'll see if I can find some of the posts I refer to with part detail in them regarding the piston and rings but you can also try the search.

 

Edit: Look through this post with techincal info posted from @rayx. Seems there is a scenario where the rods DO NOT need replacing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 December, 2017 by TheClient

[mstrbkr]

1 hour ago, TheClient said:

 

There is some detail in this thread somewhere, Plus @rayx , from my recollection, has posted in this thread and other stand alone threads before. From my memory the updated piston and ring design required the con rods to be changed because of the different pin diameter...

 

The new oil scraper ring is improved but can still suffer from the same problem but in theory should last longer than original. Especially if care with type of oil used and fixed regime. Were you on variable service regime?

 

You don't say what year or month of manufacture your yeti is but the other problem that probably needs attending is the timing chain tensioner, that will push costs up further. Maybe approaching engine swap out cost? Have they said what that would be?

 

I'll see if I can find some of the posts I refer to with part detail in them regarding the piston and rings but you can also try the search.

 

Edit: Look through this post with techincal info posted from @rayx. Seems there is a scenario where the rods DO NOT need replacing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the helpful info. That’s right, there is a scenario where the con rods don’t need changing. From researching Kolbenschmidt pistons, the ones the garage talk about, I found that the pin diameter on them is the same as the original rods. Genuine VW pistons require new rods as the pin diameter changed. However as I understand it both Kolbenschmidt and VW pistons have the updated design to remedy the fault.

 

Should have mentioned, the quoted figure in my original post includes timing chain and timing chain tensioner replacement. They hope it will be 2000 all in for this work, but it could escalate to 2500 worst case.

 

My car is a 61 plate, so built mid 2011 I guess. I will grab the service book from the car later, but from memory I don’t think it has been serviced annually. When buying it I thought nothing of it as the official schedule is 24 months isn’t it? Once repaired I’d start doing my own oil changes every 6 months / 6k tbh. Thanks so much for the help. Just want some opinions on this fix before going ahead as it’s a lot of cash!

 

p.s. I will also contact the garage for clarification that the KS pistons that DO NOT require rods also are the updated design.

Edited 29 December, 2017 by mstrbkr

[Centipede]

Hi mstrbkr

 

I have the same car, same year, same problem. I seem to be getting nowhere with Skoda (the local garage plus main office).

 

It looks like a huge price for a new engine - they seemed to be talking many thousands, so I reckon I will do the same as you. The price you have been quoted seems reasonable to me, bearing in mind the parts costs and the labour involved. I think for this price they must be working underneath the car and just dropping the crankshaft and pistons with the engine still in the car. I was told that taking an engine out and putting it back in again would be about two days work - about £1000+ by itself.

 

I have sent off a message to your garage (Midlands VW) about doing the same job for me; they seem to get a lot of positive reviews. Am waiting for a reply (probably in the new year now).

 

Seems like they are on the ball, suggesting the new pistons. However best to check as you say. 

 

The original fault appears to be down to using an oil ring which is quite narrow, and which has small drainage holes. This link to a Russian site gives details (though the translation is hard to follow) 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvwts.ru%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fshowtopic%3D192986&edit-text=&act=url

 

If this link doesn't work, I got it from a post by briskycat further down on this page:

 

It seems the original oil ring was only 1.5mm, with widely spaced small circular drainage holes. I think they were trying to reduce friction/weight and not weaken the ring.

The replacement ring is apparently 2mm, with large slits (similar to gaps I have seen on other engines I have worked on).

 

It would seem to be a good idea to check that the new oil rings being put in have significantly better drainage than the old ones, and that it is not just more of the same.

 

One other thing I did myself was to do a compression test. It is relatively easy, though it involves removing the sparkplugs and a special tool. You turn the engine over, and the compression figures indicate whether there are difficulties with the rings/barrel. It should not cost much for the garage to do it, and will rule out other problems such as a valve or turbo bearing.

 

Thanks for the original query and information.

[Ootohere]

It is not a £1.000 to remove and replace an engine or should not be even with 20% VAT.

& as for a 'New Base Engine; supplied by VW Group or with a big contribution from Skoda / VW, that is a big possibility, 

due to Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Materials and Quality Control Failings from the VW Group / Skoda.

 

If you let them walk over you they will, but see them on court with Expert Engineers Reports,  and their defense will be none.

[blackspaven]

Not being funny, and I have a vested interest having a 1.8 although my oil consumption is fine so not sure what the issue is here as I haven't heard about it before and it's on 90k, BUT shouldn't this be on a seperate thread as this is for tensioner failures??

[mstrbkr]

16 minutes ago, blackspaven said:

Not being funny, and I have a vested interest having a 1.8 although my oil consumption is fine so not sure what the issue is here as I haven't heard about it before and it's on 90k, BUT shouldn't this be on a seperate thread as this is for tensioner failures??

 

It's not about tensioner failures.

[blackspaven]

Yup, fair one, but technically it is about failures (and mainly tensioners at that) not problems whilst the cars are still driveable like oil consumption, so just thinking people might not look here and miss it if there motor has a consumption problem too.

Edited 29 December, 2017 by blackspaven

[Centipede]

Hi,

About the £1,000 for engine removal/replacement. 

I was told it would take 2 dys work minimum - daily rate for dealers is £100+ an hour, so I was being somewhat conservative .....

 

Now, of course, it SHOULDN'T cost £100 an hour (wonder what the actual mechanics get?), and also I agree absolutely about the fact that this looks like a fundamental design fault which Skoda should have a responsibility for.

[TheClient]

1 hour ago, blackspaven said:

Not being funny, and I have a vested interest having a 1.8 although my oil consumption is fine so not sure what the issue is here as I haven't heard about it before and it's on 90k, BUT shouldn't this be on a seperate thread as this is for tensioner failures??

Engines that drink excessive amounts of oil end up failing, this thread is for engine failures, and there are quite a few related to oil usage within the posts of this thread because of the poor oil scraper ring design.  It is a longer death process though agreed, compared to say than the tensioner letting go!

[rod_hulls_aerial]

My 59 plate 57k VRS was very noisy so took it to my local garage. He diagnosed tensioner failure and changed all the parts required. Once the car had been put back together it's not getting oil pressure at the end and the VVT isn't working. They have currently got the head off looking for the problem. I'm ready to push it in the local pond. Car was bought used from a main Skoda dealer with full dealer history and the fault occurred 1 month out of warranty and the dealership didn't want to know. Apparently they haven't heard of any failures on these engines. 

[Auric Goldfinger]

and the dealer is ?

[rod_hulls_aerial]

My 59 plate 57k VRS was very noisy so took it to my local garage. He diagnosed tensioner failure and changed all the parts required. Once the car had been put back together it's not getting oil pressure at the end and the VVT isn't working. They have currently got the head off looking for the problem. I'm ready to push it in the local pond. Car was bought used from a main Skoda dealer with full dealer history and the fault occurred 1 month out of warranty and the dealership didn't want to know. Apparently they haven't heard of any failures on these engines. 

[rod_hulls_aerial]

Hayselden Skoda Doncaster