2013 General F1 Discussion thread . . . .

[bilun777]

What's all this about the option tyres being only good for 6 laps in a 56 lap race?

Surely if nothing else ,that has to be a public relations failure for Pirelli.

Don't they ever want to sell tyres to the General public again?

[magic62]

Those tyres dont last very much longer.....

Lauda mentioned that the tyres will be longer lasting from Barcelona on. Pirelli will start to build tyres that lasts longer, but cannot deliver before Spain.

[James I]

I remember James Hunt doing two possibly three GP on a set of tyres lol! And going out on the lash the night before, hooking up with a few babes and still racing after a full English on the Sunday!

Anyway, if F1 is going to get it together again, they need to race not play chess.

[KenONeill]

I've been saying for years that if you don't set a time in Q2 or Q3, you should have to start on the tyres that you set your fastest time from Q1 or Q2 on.

[dazz600]

Ok heres another one then...,, just in case the poison dwarf reads this (Bernie)

Why not scrap saturday altogether (even though I like it) to stop these silly tactics

Grid position decided by reversing the finish order of previous race

1 extra point for fastest lap (incentive to keep pushing) and 1 extra point for lap record

[Jockdooshbag]

Ok heres another one then...,, just in case the poison dwarf reads this (Bernie)

Why not scrap saturday altogether (even though I like it) to stop these silly tactics

Grid position decided by reversing the finish order of previous race

1 extra point for fastest lap (incentive to keep pushing) and 1 extra point for lap record

I agree with this. I even stated this previoulsy in another thread. Imagine how exciting racing would be with the fastest at the back thats how banger racing works although they do allow contact which tends to help overtaking.

[Jabozuma]

|I can see a pattern here. Each person suggesting changes to the current F1 regs in line with regs of other formulas they enjoy .

I think F1 is not perfect but is certainly unique and I do not think it should be brought to resemble other formulas. Some tweaks are called for (China qually was a farce!) but should be very well thought for as what we have now is sooo much more exciting than what we had when Schumi was leading the processions andif there was ahandful of overtakes over a season we were lucky....

Also, nobody seemed to have commented on how sterling a job Alonso did! What a masterclass of tactical driving using all the tools available, they should all be learning from his China GP drive!

[Coops]

Agreed they should be but tyre management "won't" be such an issue as Pirelli won't be taking the soft compound to Bahrain, only the medium and hard. Medium will be the "option" tyre. No doubt it is still going to be tough on rear tyres.

[JohnMcL7]

F1 is turning into a mathematical chess game, pit stops to decide where the position will be near the end and so on, I am getting quite bored with it, RedBull's qualifying was disgraceful and they should get a one race ban.

I think I will have to start watching something else.

I agree, I thought the race was a farce as there basically was no racing...it felt like an extended qualifying session with all the cars on track at once but not really racing each other as most of the overtakes are simply people getting back into position due to being on different strategies or at different stages with their tyres. I just don't understand the point of these super fragile tyres that prevent the drivers from being able to race, it must be immensely frustrating for the drivers, I find it rubbish to watch and as someone else mentioned I can't see how it does any good for Pirelli as a brand either.

John

[JohnMcL7]

|I can see a pattern here. Each person suggesting changes to the current F1 regs in line with regs of other formulas they enjoy .

I think F1 is not perfect but is certainly unique and I do not think it should be brought to resemble other formulas. Some tweaks are called for (China qually was a farce!) but should be very well thought for as what we have now is sooo much more exciting than what we had when Schumi was leading the processions andif there was ahandful of overtakes over a season we were lucky....

Also, nobody seemed to have commented on how sterling a job Alonso did! What a masterclass of tactical driving using all the tools available, they should all be learning from his China GP drive!

I don't find it any more exciting than that at all because there's just as much racing going which is none really, there may be a lot of overtakes going on at the moment but very few are actual genuine overtakes for position - most of them are just people getting back into position or changing position because of differing pit stop strategies. I find it strange you criticise the era of Schumacher's driving then praise Alonso for doing much the same, he looked after his tyres and stayed at the front, if that's the sort of driving you find exciting fair enough but I want to see the drivers actually racing each other and competing for positions, not limping around the track trying to protect their tyres.

John

[steve75]

I think they should do away with radio comms.... Yes we'd lose out on great quotes from kimi, but if they only have limited info at their disposal from the pit boards then will have to race their ass off as they won't know how the race is panning out.... and give 1 point for fastest lap. Get back to decent tyres and get rid of the bloody drs, sick of all the fake overtakes.

[kevberlin]

I am the odd one out then. I think f1 year has been great so far. I love DRS and the tyre management issues.

[steve75]

really? you like just watching them breeze past, not even putting up a fight because they know there is nothing they can do about it with their 5 lap older tyres that have already fallen off the cliff and because the other car is using drs doubled up with a blast of kers..... They no they are not on the same strategy too so know there is no point fighting it at that moment.....

[Jabozuma]

I'd suggest you stop torturing yourself watching this pointless formula and switch to GP3 or F3.5 or there's a brand new formula being floated by Palmer.

I personally find it very exciting and challenging to know exactly who is where, on what strategy and tyres, how many pita tips they've done, what's the track position re DRS zones. I watch live F1 on the beeb with 3 other screens in addition to the main feed showing me driver tracker, official timing stream, and pit lane and on board cameras feeds. However I can see your point and if you do not get involved in similar way and just watch the main feed it might boring to watch... The amount of data to be processed could be intimidating.

So again, stop pontificating and watch something else . Fake overtakings? Really?!? Sorry, but that shows a lack of understanding. If you overtake in a wrong spot you will be overtaken few seconds later. Hamilton was racing his boots off at the beginning but wasn't fast enough, wrecked his tyres and got gobbled up. These days it is not enough to be quick, you have to be smart first of all...

[kevberlin]

really? you like just watching them breeze past, not even putting up a fight because they know there is nothing they can do about it with their 5 lap older tyres that have already fallen off the cliff and because the other car is using drs doubled up with a blast of kers..... They no they are not on the same strategy too so know there is no point fighting it at that moment.....

I do like it but that is because I probably see it in a different way to you. I like the fact that there are a number of issues that have to be brought together by driver and team to produce the winning car. Alonso's use of Kers and DRS on Sunday is one small example of a thinking driver working to maximise his advantage.

Moreover, let us not delude ourselves about how "exciting" F1 has been in years past. For example, 2005 when there were no tyre changes etc etc. It used often to be a dull procession.

[dazz600]

Agreed

F1 is more interesting now than in previous years

My way of measuring this is down to how long it takes me to nod off during a typical race

When schumacher was winning all the time I could last just a few laps but Sunday I lasted til lap 28 (ish)

[steve75]

I love everything you 2 guys love about F1, always have always will..... But i do think they have gone too far with the tyres and drs is just ridiculous! i could probably live with the tyres if they did away the drs. Personally i was happier when we had decent tyres and fuel stops. At least the teams seemed to understand their tyres back then and it wasn't a game of chance as to whether the tyres would work from one minute to the next and for which team..... Yet they still had fuel levels to play about with to keep you guessing how the strategies would play out...... one of my favourite tactical decisions ever (not a popular one with most) was when Schumi stayed out to the last lap at silverstone to serve his penalty as he crossed the finish line! genius by my book and the sort rule pushing i love. Yes, i love all these chess games too but i want to see some real racing to go with it!

[steve75]

Agreed

F1 is more interesting now than in previous years

My way of measuring this is down to how long it takes me to nod off during a typical race

When schumacher was winning all the time I could last just a few laps but Sunday I lasted til lap 28 (ish)

I was perfectly happy when shumi/ferrari were winning week after week

[kevberlin]

I was perfectly happy when shumi/ferrari were winning week after week

So was I, but only because he was my hero!

[Coops]

The biggest debate at the minute is clearly over Pirelli's tyres and how they are preventing proper racing because the drivers have to drive within themselves to manage their performance - however what you have to appreciate is that on Sunday the fastest 3 drivers in qualifying were on the podium.

I think the current tyre situation makes the teams both think and work harder - you have to drive the car within it's limits and the tyres are part of the car. In Bahrain, Pirelli will be taking the hard and medium compounds and if they had done the same in China then the most critical tyre would have done approx 20-30 laps, so it would have been a one stop race - is that what the public really want to see? I don't think so.

When they had refuelling, the fastest way to win a race was with a multi-stop strategy and drivers totally abusing the tyres. But cars were never as heavy as they are now in the first part of the race so the drivers looked after the tyres better (if you see what i mean)

F1 has changed very much over the years with the exception of tyre management as it is now more visible. Yes granted we should get rid of DRS and make the drivers fight more for the overtake and position.

F1 is a sport and I think what we have now is very good. Imagine if we still had Bridgestone tyres, drivers wouldn't need to think about them and the viewing figures would be appalling.

[Jabozuma]

Wasn't the reason for DRS introduction the fact that with the regs as we Have it it was impossible to overtake? For me quite lamentable is the fact that the only thing they change and develop on the car is the aero-F1 lost out massively with the ban on engine developments. I however do understand the need to cut costs etc so ... Not sure what to do as it became the race of wind tunnels. It is ridiculous that even Macca goes to Cologne to do their testing at Toyota's facility...

I fear that if DRS is banned we will end up with processions again...

Now we can have Button finishing fifth in a dog of a car simply because he's a great driver and they had phenomenal tactics. Sadly Checo is badly under performing ...

[Coops]

If the tyres are kept as they are at present AND DRS is dropped, then it really will force drivers to fight for the overtake, managing their position, KERS usage and tyre degredation.

Agreed that the ban on engine developments halted some of the progress but it really was getting out of control with a huge divide between the lesser teams. Some of this may change next year with the smaller turbo'd engines and the KERs changes also.

And why did Button finish 5th with a less than perfect car? Because the team had to think harder about the tactics and develop a suitable strategy with the tyres.

[steve75]

Wasn't the reason for DRS introduction the fact that with the regs as we Have it it was impossible to overtake? For me quite lamentable is the fact that the only thing they change and develop on the car is the aero-F1 lost out massively with the ban on engine developments. I however do understand the need to cut costs etc so ... Not sure what to do as it became the race of wind tunnels. It is ridiculous that even Macca goes to Cologne to do their testing at Toyota's facility...

I fear that if DRS is banned we will end up with processions again...

Now we can have Button finishing fifth in a dog of a car simply because he's a great driver and they had phenomenal tactics. Sadly Checo is badly under performing ...

The thing is I don't think there would be a problem with them ditching drs.... I think the tyres on their own have done enough to enhance the overtaking possibilities and they still have kers.... i think drs is great for the casual viewer that only ever watches the odd race and doesn't get too involved with strategies and politics of the sport, all they want to see is a car going round and pulling a few overtakes.... i feel its the hardcore fans that have had to suffer as a result, though from the last few posts it appears i may be wrong about that....

[Jockdooshbag]

DRS did resolve a big issue in that cars couldnt overtake as they couldnt stay close enough behind another car due to the aero interference.

I think some people might have forgotten how bad this was for a while. I do kind of agree with you though that DRS is a little fake but its better than the issues that precedded its introduction.

I would rather see all wings binned and the cars had to rely on mechanical grip. Then they could drive right up the car in fronts chuff. I understand this may make cars slower then cars in lesser formulas so its not a very practical solution.

Apart from qualifying being a bit of a tyre management excercise i still think F1 as it currently exists is very exciting, certainly better than its been for years so its probably not a good idea to mees about with the formula too much. The new engines will shake things up a fair bit next year anyway so they will probably see how they impact on things before messing with anything else.

[eccleshill]

I disagree totally with those who describe DRS as "fake". Don't forget that the driver has to get within 1 second of the car in front before it is operable. They then have to open up a 1 second plus gap to stop the guy they just passed getting them back. DRS does away with the situation where a quicker driver catches the car in front at 2 or so seconds per lap only to be stuck behind because of the fake situation created by dirty air flowing off the car in front.

DRS is great! Long live DRS!!

I have been following F1 for years - I have barely missed a race since 1985! The turbo era was fantastic! Yet another overtaking aid. Preserve your engine and fuel by running low boost or turn up the wick and get more power but risk not finishing! And it is back next year... Roll on!