2wd or 4wd that is the question

[freedie]

I came to Yeti from Subaru. My Subaru has torque-sensing (Torsen) differentials (diffs) not computer controlled transmission. My Yeti is 4x4 not just because of anything mentioned above but because it gives me the ability to go wherever I deem it suitable (which, trust me, is a lot more places than a two wheel drive could go!). Cue poor Gaydon pic?

[Llanigraham]

......a car that has 'permanent' 4 wheel drive is a true 4x4. Am I missing the point here ? 

I'm back!!

 

Some people should do a bit a research before they start trying to define something.

The term "4x4" was introduced into common useage during the Second World War by the Allies to define "any vehicle with 4 wheels on 2 axles, where all the wheels are capable of being driven". Please note the highlighted bit!! The definition was accepted by NATO as a standard definition and can also applied to any combination of axles, so a 3 axled truck could be 6x2, 6x4, or 6x6. It makes no mention of the number of permanently driven axles. The 2WW Jeep had selectable 4 wheel drive to the front axle, as did the first Land Rovers, however they are still 4x4's.

The Yeti with the Haldex system is a 4x4!!

A 2x2 would be an all axle drive motorcycle, and yes BMW did produce one!

 

Do we need 4x4?

For 75% drivers on the UK roads, a large and positive NO from me. The standard excuse I hear is "Because I want to be safe in the snow!" Well sorry but lots of drivers are dangerous in 2 wheel drive, and sticking an extra driven axle under them makes them twice as dangerous. 4x4 gives far too many people a false confidence. 4x4 is great for getting you going, but it doesn't matter how many wheels you have once you start sliding, gravity and momentum are far the strongest force.

There are occasions where 4x4 is useful for "Joe Public". I had it today towing the caravan up a steep junction on a wet road, however I've done the same junction in a front wheel car in the same conditions and still got around it, but with lots of wheel spin.

[@Lee]

FWD with winter tyres is the answer. HTH

[JCP]

I have my second Yeti 4x4 and I don't quite understand why some people are so worked up about it. The definition Graham has given is right and the method by which the axles are driven may vary from the very simple -if not crude-I had on an old Vitara which unless you had optional free wheeling front hubs was unsuitable for tarmac use at road speeds through to the wholly undetectable and clever Haldex system I now enjoy. There is a weight penalty and no doubt a fuel cost but I think it is an ideal all round system.Of course there are nincompoops who imagine that it gives their school run monster an exemption from the effects of gravity, centrifugal force or the coefficient of friction between their tyres and the road. In forty plus years of driving a variety of vehicles I have always managed to keep making progress when needed and have seldom lost grip in any serious way and I am wholly aware that 4 wheel drive isn't a necessity. Tonight on still hot but streaming tarmac with plenty of room I experimented with the ability of a Yeti to maintain traction under provocation. I am happy to report that it's abilities exceed my ambition. That's how I prefer my vehicles.

[MCAMRA]

I'm back!!

 

Some people should do a bit a research before they start trying to define something.

The term "4x4" was introduced into common useage during the Second World War by the Allies to define "any vehicle with 4 wheels on 2 axles, where all the wheels are capable of being driven". Please note the highlighted bit!! The definition was accepted by NATO as a standard definition and can also applied to any combination of axles, so a 3 axled truck could be 6x2, 6x4, or 6x6. It makes no mention of the number of permanently driven axles. The 2WW Jeep had selectable 4 wheel drive to the front axle, as did the first Land Rovers, however they are still 4x4's.

The Yeti with the Haldex system is a 4x4!!

A 2x2 would be an all axle drive motorcycle, and yes BMW did produce one!

 

Do we need 4x4?

For 75% drivers on the UK roads, a large and positive NO from me. The standard excuse I hear is "Because I want to be safe in the snow!" Well sorry but lots of drivers are dangerous in 2 wheel drive, and sticking an extra driven axle under them makes them twice as dangerous. 4x4 gives far too many people a false confidence. 4x4 is great for getting you going, but it doesn't matter how many wheels you have once you start sliding, gravity and momentum are far the strongest force.

There are occasions where 4x4 is useful for "Joe Public". I had it today towing the caravan up a steep junction on a wet road, however I've done the same junction in a front wheel car in the same conditions and still got around it, but with lots of wheel spin.

You certainly are ! Perhaps you should read other peoples posts before giving them a history lesson and labeling them an over confident poor motorist that understands nothing. I noticed you do that all the time to people but at least I did not get the 'BIG FONT'' treatment. You just decided to be partonising instead......with a little 'bold' highlight just in case I missed any important points.. I can read thks.

Sorry if you did not grasp the very simple (whether it fits in with worlds definition of 4x4 or not ) concept then thats your problem. On the otherhand, perhaps you did but decided instead to be selective in what I have written and use it an opportunity to write an irrelevent post simply to inflate your own ego. If that is possible.

A wise person told me to be careful of (some... but not all) 'advanced motorists' as they are a lot more dangerous on and off the road than they think..........I think you are proving their point.

[BigW]

:think:  Please stop the petty bickering, point scoring and infighting.

 

It's actually really embarrassing to read from the outside, you know when you watch a video on youtube of something like a crosswind landing and think "wow, that's cool" then you read the comments section underneath and there are 1200 comments from 'pilots' telling you how they could have done it oh so much better? Yeah it's that kind of toe curling I'm getting right now.

 

Keep the debate civil and interesting as it was and the thread stays, otherwise it'll just be locked.

 

Ta

[MCAMRA]

Your right back to the OP's question. The Yeti might not have the latest version but its similar. Please dont tell me this is not a good safety feature to have....and this text fro VAG explains it well. For me its more important than a sat nav, front parking sensors and a nodding dog on the parcel shelf...sorry I meant 'Decals'

"4MOTION gives you great grip on the road, come rain, wind or snow. So, however treacherous the road surface, you get a sure-footed car with huge levels of traction.

Our four-wheel drive systems work hard to keep you safe, linking with other active safety systems on your Volkswagen to constantly monitor driving conditions. It reacts to even the slightest wheel slip and automatically sends the right amount of power to the wheels with the most grip. The second it detects a problem, it delivers extra traction where it's needed.

As a driver, you get reassuring stability and optimum control. And the confidence that your Volkswagen can safely tackle the roughest roads and the worst weather conditions. That lets you relax and enjoy your drive, knowing that 4MOTION is always on the alert to keep you safe and help you out of tricky situations. It will take snow and ice, slippery roads and muddy tracks in its stride, and help you get out of places where a normal car would be stuck.

Split-second action.

All this happens in milliseconds, through control units that are linked to the car's dynamic sensors, engine management system and gearbox. At the heart of the four-wheel drive system is an inter-axle differential -the design varies depending on the particular system. The differential's job is to share power between the front and rear axle, sending it where it's most needed. If the system senses a loss of traction - caused, for instance, by the wheels on one axle spinning on a slippery surface - it will split the wheels' turning power as needed - almost instantly - to correct the problem.

At the same time, the smaller differences in rotational speed, that happen when cornering or manoeuvring, have to be balanced to stop torsional stresses in the drive train. And the differential must be able to work with the car's other active safety systems such as Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) and the electronic stability programme (ESP). In order to meet all these different demands, we offer our four-wheel drive system in three differential variants. They are called:

Haldex clutch

Torsen differential

Lockable centre differential

The Haldex clutch

The Haldex clutch automatically gathers information on the driver's actions, engine performance, transmission and brakes, so it can control the transfer of torque. That lets it deal swiftly with all potentially dangerous or difficult driving conditions.

Whether you need maximum torque shift in tricky situations or when accelerating - or less when taking sharp corners or parking - the system keeps you safe while offering better performance and driving comfort.

It distributes power between front and rear axles by means of an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch, set between the front and rear axles. Sensors detect slip between the front and rear wheels and apply torque to the back pair if the powered front wheels are spinning, until the two axles are moving at the same speed. Electronic pumps regulate the pressure on the clutch plates and as it rises, the plate sets are pressed against each other. Power transmission can be precisely regulated. In extreme situations, it's even possible to send almost 100% of power to the rear.

The general principle of the Haldex clutch is to always send the driving forces to the axle with the better traction. In this way, 4MOTION is able to respond swiftly and optimally to any driving situation. However, you still keep the feel of a front-wheel drive car most of the time. In normal driving conditions, 90 per cent of the engine's power is sent to the front wheels, with 10 per cent going to the rear. This results in improved fuel efficiency, compared with permanent four-wheel drive. And there's no risk of torsional stresses on the drive train during parking and manoeuvring. The Haldex clutch can be linked with all our active safety systems, including ABS and ESP."

Edited 30 July, 2013 by MCAMRA

[PenTom]

Four-wheel drive (a) a transmission system which provides power directly to all four wheels of a vehicle; ( a vehicle with four-wheel drive;

(Shorter Oxford English Dictionary Sixth Edition) Doesn't say anything about part-time or not.

 

 

The copywriter has spoken. Back to work. See you all tomorrow! 

[Paul52]

Personally I blame DaveLees. If he hadn't posted "I am wondering whether I need another 4wd, or, if a 2wd (with winter tyres when appropriate) will do" then Big W wouldn't have had to step in and tell us to play nicely or the toys are all going to be put away. Macdemon pretty much said it all way back in post 2 (ah, such simple times way back then). But why the pop about decals? Does anyone really want Snowy and his mates to turn up on their doorstep? (OK, does any one except possibly Bobdog want Snowy and his mates turning up on their doorstep)?

 

(Is there a helpline or something to help wean people like me off this forum - I'm now spending way too much time reading post and I really need to get on and earn a living!!!)

[PenTom]

Personally I blame DaveLees. If he hadn't posted "I am wondering whether I need another 4wd, or, if a 2wd (with winter tyres when appropriate) will do" then Big W wouldn't have had to step in and tell us to play nicely or the toys are all going to be put away. Macdemon pretty much said it all way back in post 2 (ah, such simple times way back then). But why the pop about decals? Does anyone really want Snowy and his mates to turn up on their doorstep? (OK, does any one except possibly Bobdog want Snowy and his mates turning up on their doorstep)?

 

(Is there a helpline or something to help wean people like me off this forum - I'm now spending way too much time reading post and I really need to get on and earn a living!!!)

[PenTom]

Uh oh! Has someone upset Snowy? (The one and only Snowy) He won't be pleased if he has to come all the way down south again so soon to sort anyone out! 

[MCAMRA]

Sorry, forgot to empasize this point.... "In normal driving conditions, 90 per cent of the engine's power is sent to the front wheels, with 10 per cent going to the rear. This results in improved fuel efficiency, compared with permanent four-wheel drive"

Call a Yeti 4x4 what you like, but 90 per cent of the time for us 'Joe Public' its a 2x2........ with a little 'something' there if the car decides you need it. Well I like that and happy that I have got it.

[PenTom]

Shall we introduce AutoSocks into the debate?  :think:

[PenTom]

Sorry, forgot to empasize this point.... "In normal driving conditions, 90 per cent of the engine's power is sent to the front wheels, with 10 per cent going to the rear. This results in improved fuel efficiency, compared with permanent four-wheel drive"

Call a Yeti 4x4 what you like, but 90 per cent of the time for us 'Joe Public' its a 2x2........ with a little 'something' there if the car decides you need it. Well I like that and happy that I have got it.

That sums it up. The vehicle has the technology to do the job. Now, about those AutoSocks... 

[PenTom]

Four-wheel drive (a) a transmission system which provides power directly to all four wheels of a vehicle; ( a vehicle with four-wheel drive;

(Shorter Oxford English Dictionary Sixth Edition) Doesn't say anything about part-time or not.

 

 

The copywriter has spoken. Back to work. See you all tomorrow! 

So it's a 4x4 when the drive is going to all four wheels. I get it. It's a 4x4.

[PenTom]

MarieK, where are you and Snowy now when we need you most? Please add some of your subtle signature-levity and wisdom to wind-up the debate. We all love Snowy!

[MCAMRA]

So it's a 4x4 when the drive is going to all four wheels. I get it. It's a 4x4.

I like your style.....your worse than me.

[Frenchtone]

"4MOTION gives you great grip on the road, come rain, wind or snow. So, however treacherous the road surface, you get a sure-footed car with huge levels of traction.

Vag would say that, its their system they're marketing, I've got several cases of cure all snake oil here, anyone want a bottle or two, its really cheap  ?

[PenTom]

I like your style.....your worse than me.

Thank you. It's been an interesting debate. I'm just envious of all the time you guys have. I'm starting to realise what a distraction forums can be!

[PenTom]

"4MOTION gives you great grip on the road, come rain, wind or snow. So, however treacherous the road surface, you get a sure-footed car with huge levels of traction.

Vag would say that, its their system they're marketing, I've got several cases of cure all snake oil here, anyone want a bottle or two, its really cheap  ?

But, regardless of the marketing hype, it is still a 4x4 when the drive is going to four wheels...

[MCAMRA]

Uh oh! Has someone upset Snowy? (The one and only Snowy) He won't be pleased if he has to come all the way down south again so soon to sort anyone out! 

Ive got enough cats in the garden.

[Ansum]

Sorry, forgot to empasize this point.... "In normal driving conditions, 90 per cent of the engine's power is sent to the front wheels, with 10 per cent going to the rear. This results in improved fuel efficiency, compared with permanent four-wheel drive"

Call a Yeti 4x4 what you like, but 90 per cent of the time for us 'Joe Public' its a 2x2........ with a little 'something' there if the car decides you need it. Well I like that and happy that I have got it.

 

I think you should have said 4x2 instead of 2x2.

From Wikipedia: The first figure is normally the total wheels (more precisely, axle ends, which may have multiple wheels), and the second, the number that are powered.

[MCAMRA]

Thank you. It's been an interesting debate. I'm just envious of all the time you guys have. I'm starting to realise what a distraction forums can be!

Tell me about it, but then again.....Its 35 degrees outside, kids are off school.....what better way to pass the time. Silly really, I'm supposed to be revising my 'Advanced Drivers' test. But then again I am HGV 1 trained so I think I will give it a miss and to be taught how to drive on the 'Yeti' forum.

[AndyC]

Can we agree on one thing?

 

We all made our choice and paid our money and bought Yeti's. Whether its 2x2 or  2x4 or 4x2 or 4x4, they all drive very well and for 99% of the time it doesn't matter how many wheels are powered.

 

Andy

[Ansum]

That sums it up. The vehicle has the technology to do the job. Now, about those AutoSocks... 

 

AutoSocks and similar solutions come nowhere close to the capabilities of a 4x4. Sometime back I came across  a test done by a Norwegian motoring magazine to see the usefulness of such solutions. They compared an Octavia 4x4 and a 4x2 Yeti equipped with various options (winter tyres without studs, Autosocks, chains and another solution called Clack & go). The test was to drive up a 14-15 degree gradient with snowy/icy conditions from a standing start. Only the Octavia managed to pass the test. The Yeti 4x2 couldnt pass the test even with help from any of these solutions.

 

Here is a link to the article (Its in Norwegian though): http://www.klikk.no/motor/bil/article537396.ece