We've started having tinker with the 2.0TDI 184PS

[stever750]

I'm interested in this, but my question would be if using a box is detectable once removed? No one is going to warrant your engine if it explodes, so I'd not waste any time believing it (been there, nearly ended up with a t shirt). 

[fat4l]

10 hours ago, stever750 said:

I'm interested in this, but my question would be if using a box is detectable once removed? No one is going to warrant your engine if it explodes, so I'd not waste any time believing it (been there, nearly ended up with a t shirt). 

I was told it is not but I am not sure. There can be hints that something was there but I dont know if they can invalidate the warranty based on "hints".

 

[stever750]

I guess they could always ask to see your insurance certificate. Only an idiot would drive a modified car without telling the insurance company, so that might be one way. As much as the mods are fun, I've had 18 months of guilt free motoring in the superb knowing that if it explodes I'm not going to have to cover the cost if repairs. 

[fat4l]

1 hour ago, stever750 said:

I guess they could always ask to see your insurance certificate. Only an idiot would drive a modified car without telling the insurance company, so that might be one way. As much as the mods are fun, I've had 18 months of guilt free motoring in the superb knowing that if it explodes I'm not going to have to cover the cost if repairs. 

I was talking about Skoda warranty not insurance really.

U blow your turbo, go and get warranty claim. I'm not sure if they can invalidate warranty based on "hints" that your sensors may show error and that the engine was working outside of the normal parametres. Not sure 

[Auric Goldfinger]

4 hours ago, fat4l said:

I was told it is not but I am not sure. There can be hints that something was there but I dont know if they can invalidate the warranty based on "hints".

 

 

If there's any way Skoda can wriggle out of a warranty claim they will find it. 

 

 

 

Edited 11 September, 2017 by Auric Goldfinger

[Ootohere]

Exclusions, like 'Fitting of non factory approved parts, hardware, engine management / software' will about cover getting out of things, 

and if they are shelling out maybe £3,000 plus and have you sign a Warranty Claim & Declaration about not having fitted a Tuning Box if they suspect there was one, 

then they quite easily have a 'Loss Adjuster' check Social Media posts and the Insurance cover on the car.  Loss Adjuster get a cut on Pay Outs saved on, 

Voiding a Warranty Claim etc.

 

Obviously some claims are easy, it is Dealerships / employees that can make it so, but that is getting less common as VW Group know about lying and Fraud, 

they are World Class at it.

VW Group Never ever fitted Illegal Defeat Devices obviously, just recalling 11 million plus vehicles because they never ever did.

 Not Defamation their, they admit it when forced to by courts /  Authorities & pay the fines, just not do the time.

Edited 11 September, 2017 by Headinawayoffski

[stever750]

I think, from both personal experience and from reading forums that the amount of risk is quite varied and depends on your relationship with the dealer who is doing any work. I had read about Golf R owners with remaps that were reset back to normal and had blown turbos (it's was a turbo impeller shafts design issue with early production of the 280/300 engine used on Golf and Leon) where the ecu was sent to the VW tech centre in wolfsburg for analyis and easily found to have evidence if a reflash (there is a counter in the ecu) and in this case the owner had to pay for a complete new engine (bottom end was wrecked with slivers of impeller shaft) as well as other costs, from memory it was a £7k bill. He also had threats from vw finance for breaking the terms if the agreement and was forced to repair the car as technically it was not his property. In my case, I asked seat UK finance if I could do it, and was told yes, I also asked their tech department who didn't say no, and weren't sure about warranty. I also told the dealer up front it was done, but they still replaced the turbo on mine which had the same initial design fault. The fact I had bought four cars from them in 6 years might have helped, who knows, I never had an explicit conversation about it. So, it's not always clear cut, but it would be pragmatic to assume the worst, and be prepared to pay the repair cost yourself. Bear in mind that if the turbo fails on a diesel engine, and the oil seal is broken, then it will run away and kill itself most likely. A petrol engine won't burn oil thankfully, though you'll make an enormous cloud of smoke. 

[themanwithnoaim]

A tuningbox leaves no footprint on the car HOWEVER, & yes its a big however, the engine, turbo & associated running gear will have "operated outside of normal parameters"

 

This alone will sink any warranty claim on those items but, its quite a lot of work to find that information so, they won't do it for just a water pump but will, for an engine rebuild.

[stever750]

On 11/09/2017 at 16:45, themanwithnoaim said:

A tuningbox leaves no footprint on the car HOWEVER, & yes its a big however, the engine, turbo & associated running gear will have "operated outside of normal parameters"

 

This alone will sink any warranty claim on those items but, its quite a lot of work to find that information so, they won't do it for just a water pump but will, for an engine rebuild.

Yes, that's what I would have assumed too, but read my post earlier, I've come across two extreme opposite outcomes to the same failure. 

[themanwithnoaim]

23 minutes ago, stever750 said:

Yes, that's what I would have assumed too, but read my post earlier, I've come across two extreme opposite outcomes to the same failure. 

I'm not sure that Seat dealers have the very highest of morals

[stever750]

20 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

I'm not sure that Seat dealers have the very highest of morals

It was a skoda dealer. One of the better ones too, worth driving 100 miles over the one 5 minutes away. 

[stever750]

Hmm. 

 

I've read this quote a fed times now on a couple of forums:

 

"Unfortunately you have bought a mass produced item and sometimes you find the odd vehicle that works outside the parameters of the majority if others. You and your car fall into this category."

 

I just don't agree. I've worked in the auto supply chain for nearly thirty years, now in measurement consultancy, and I've learnt one thing and that's the car makers have driven product consistency to a level beyond just about anything that doesn't fly. The idea that each engine is subject to so much tolerance variation through stack up mechanically is probably poop. There is likely something else that's causing so much variation in performance. 

[gasman58]

Hi all could I ask a question regarding one of these tuning boxes, my car is standard vrs diesel est, 2015. I'm planning on towing a caravan would one of these boxes help in that regard as I wouldn't be interested in the overall speed increase. Thks for your time

[GoneToBeemer]

The thing is, to find out that something has “operated outside of parameters” is a far cry away from shredder proof that a car has been modified, and I’m sure legally could be defended if push came to shove - there is no way that a manufacturer could PROVE that a tuning box was fitted.

 

A remap however, as many have said, will leave a trace and a TD1 flag that is readily identifiable.

 

Insurance is a no brainer - not declaring any mod is totally daft (I even told my insurance that I had after market window tints to be totally safe, not that they cared).

[stever750]

I'm inclined to agree, though a local remapper that has helped me out in the past (so am reasonably confident he's not a fool) and has an IT background suggested that it would be easy to detect that actual fuel and boost pressures would be recorded, and would be obviously much higher than factory spec. Not proof beyond doubt if course, but certainly a smoking gun,  and given how the boxes are user adjustable and tend to be run at max benefit the gun smoke is particularly noticeable! 

[fat4l]

so at the end. If you call you insurer and tell them you have a tuning box fitted, can then Skoda ask for such thing as "show us you incurance thingy" ? It will be then obvious that something was fitted.

[stever750]

29 minutes ago, fat4l said:

so at the end. If you call you insurer and tell them you have a tuning box fitted, can then Skoda ask for such thing as "show us you incurance thingy" ? It will be then obvious that something was fitted.

Indeed they might. If you blew an engine up, and they suspected you were lying, then a loss adjuster might indeed contact your insurers. It's worth noting that having your car insured when it's not is similar to vice versa. I had both my leon and cupra insured with green light, and they told me I had to have the policy changed when I took the map off. Didn't cost me anything, but the details had to match. 

[stever750]

On 11/09/2017 at 16:45, themanwithnoaim said:

A tuningbox leaves no footprint on the car HOWEVER, & yes its a big however, the engine, turbo & associated running gear will have "operated outside of normal parameters"

 

This alone will sink any warranty claim on those items but, its quite a lot of work to find that information so, they won't do it for just a water pump but will, for an engine rebuild.

I was thinking more about this recently, and it occurred to me that without the physical proof, it's reality your word against bizarre or unexplained logged values, but I'll bet the occasional stock engine has a flipsy and ends up with all manner of odd data. 

[stever750]

What is the consensus for the optimum settings for the CRD3 box?

[JohnnyType2]

like you said position 1 for even spread of torque, 2 for low end torque and 3 for high end torque.  Im pretty happy with 2+1, ample torque and power. I'm of the opinion i prefer the torque lower down for launch and as its more than fast enough top end to lose me my license.

 

I had a little bit of a duel with 3 series M Sport this evening on the way home, he lost.  i couldnt tell if it was diesel or petrol as it was de-badged.

[stever750]

Ive been told that 3 is low down torque, 1 is linear and 2 is peak torque at higher engine speeds. I just tried P2, I prefer the performance higher up, mainly because it means you can pootle around town sensibly, and tap into the performance when you're in the mood. That said, there's not a huge difference between the modes, and whilst it's quick enough to now push the limits if the chassis and braking it's certainly no rocket ship. Nowhere near the performance of my cupra, and not quite as quick as my sharked 2.0tsi mk2 octy when really pushing on, but that's what you'd expect. Makes it a much more capable x country machine though, for sure, and am impressed with how smooth and linear it is 

Edited 10 November, 2017 by stever750

[vRSAnt]

2 hours ago, JohnnyType2 said:

like you said position 1 for even spread of torque, 2 for low end torque and 3 for high end torque.  Im pretty happy with 2+1, ample torque and power. I'm of the opinion i prefer the torque lower down for launch and as its more than fast enough top end to lose me my license.

 

I had a little bit of a duel with 3 series M Sport this evening on the way home, he lost.  i couldnt tell if it was diesel or petrol as it was de-badged.

 

M sport ? Thats one of those pathetic sport trims though isn't it. ST "Line" etc. Near enough meaningless nowadays. "Want to look like I'm quick but just can't afford the real deal".

[GoneToBeemer]

1 hour ago, vRSAnt said:

 

M sport ? Thats one of those pathetic sport trims though isn't it. ST "Line" etc. Near enough meaningless nowadays. "Want to look like I'm quick but just can't afford the real deal".

 

Or maybe they just want a car to look nice and don’t really care if it’s the fastest thing on earth...like a vRS? Hardly pathetic?

[themanwithnoaim]

8 hours ago, stever750 said:

Ive been told that 3 is low down torque, 1 is linear and 2 is peak torque at higher engine speeds. I just tried P2, I prefer the performance higher up, mainly because it means you can pootle around town sensibly, and tap into the performance when you're in the mood. That said, there's not a huge difference between the modes, and whilst it's quick enough to now push the limits if the chassis and braking it's certainly no rocket ship. Nowhere near the performance of my cupra, and not quite as quick as my sharked 2.0tsi mk2 octy when really pushing on, but that's what you'd expect. Makes it a much more capable x country machine though, for sure, and am impressed with how smooth and linear it is 

Beware giving out advice, sometimes they move the maps about so, not everybodys maps are in the same order.

 

My map 1 is not on general release yet therefore, only a very few have it

[stever750]

I understand a  few owners have had custom maps flashed onto seemingly random positions, and there is generally a lack of clarity over which position does what, but some of Andrew's posts have indicated that two of the maps are replicas of those put onto the crdt+ (albeit with different numbers). I've spent hours reading threads on every VAG brand and model forums and there is a distinct pattern on the 3 channel device. 

 

This is a particularly useful thread and worth ploughing through all 59 pages. 

 

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=392680&highlight=judder

Edited 11 November, 2017 by stever750