New Golf R

[vrskeith]

So what are you lining up now Steve?

Have you still driving the Leon Cupra 310?

[vrskeith]

Steve, I've just seen your comments in the Mega Hot Hatch thread, regarding the Octavia.

So,I think I have your answer to my earlier question.

[Furbytom]

Keith, why do you think the margin on real roads would be bigger? I'd think the opposite were true, given that all three can massively exceed the limit point on anything other than a big wide open stretch of road.....

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Very true Steve! In the real world, on uk roads there is absolutely nothing to separate the current crop of hot hatches in terms of A to B pace imho.

Speed is limited entirely by line of sight, traffic and licence preservation factors. I.e the driver who is the biggest nut-job will be quickest.

Lap times, journo opinions, magazine shootouts and 'ring times are all good fun for abit of pub banter but that's about it. Which car is "better" is solely down to the individual and personal preference :-)

[vrskeith]

Speed is not the only criteria in geting from A to B.quickly and safely.Road conditions status,dry,wet etc plus handling performance of the car . The drivers ability should always be taken into account .

Edited 6 January, 2016 by vrskeith

[Lady Elanore]

Very true Steve! In the real world, on uk roads there is absolutely nothing to separate the current crop of hot hatches in terms of A to B pace imho.

Speed is limited entirely by line of sight, traffic and licence preservation factors. I.e the driver who is the biggest nut-job will be quickest.

Lap times, journo opinions, magazine shootouts and 'ring times are all good fun for abit of pub banter but that's about it. Which car is "better" is solely down to the individual and personal preference :-)

 

 

I've tried to drive over my favourite roads in Co Durham - twisty, empty, good vision on many fast open stretches - with the speed limiter set to 60mph. It's horrendous and in one ore two places you can hold up white vans It's what I found with the M3, so quick that there is nowhere legal that you can exploit it for more than a few seconds at a time, unless you go to private roads/track etc :(

[stever750]

Tbh, I value the handling more than grunt. I concluded that the std factory power was more than enough.

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[fabdavrav]

Keith, why do you think the margin on real roads would be bigger? I'd think the opposite were true, given that all three can massively exceed the limit point on anything other than a big wide open stretch of road.....

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TBH I think it would be true. The trouble with the average driver who has any of those cars, would back off in the BMW on a twisty British back road in typical average British weather....the BMW likes to get the tail out when you push it & for the average owner they might not like the idea of being part of the countryside in those conditions. However a Golf R would feel & actually grip more therefore the same typical average ability owner would be more inclined to push it a bit more with out feeling they were to be part of the countryside.

 

I know my mate although loves the better mpg & straight 6 engine, he hates the lack of grip compared to his old Scooby P1 for the back roads up here. I know having driven back to back a MK4 GTI & MK4 R32 down the same road the R32 although way nose heavy & the old laggy Haldex had more grip than the GTI..............trouble was you needed to go faster into the bends to get the Haldex to activate, then you would feel it shunt the power, not subtle but good, needed the better controller. However the newer ones in MK7 are very good............

 

As for why the Golf is faster than the Audi when both the same platform etc................tyres, suspension settings, geometry,

[Furbytom]

Yeah I can see the appeal of the golf R for its 4wd wet weather ability and comfort blanket factor. So flattering for the average driver, just mash the throttle and the car will sort everything out for you.

Some prefer a car you have to 'drive' a little more to get the best from it I suppose, I.e think more about throttle modulation and feeding in the power etc. Nothing wrong with either approach tho.

The M135i isn't a mad tail-happy monster that will throw you in the first hedge if it's not dry and you are enjoying the performance tho ;-) Yes, you can get the tail to step out abit if you turn the stability control down a notch and are deliberately trying to provoke it but with traction/stability fully on its great in the wet, even when "pushing on". Lateral grip level is outstanding. You'd have to be driving like an absolute mentalist on the road in order to lose it imho. I never once felt remotely close to a brown-trouser moment during my ownership tbh. Which brings me back to my original point.. In most people's hands, driving within their limits on the public road there isn't much performance margin between these cars. :-)

[Lady Elanore]

Yeah I can see the appeal of the golf R for its 4wd wet weather ability and comfort blanket factor. So flattering for the average driver, just mash the throttle and the car will sort everything out for you.

Some prefer a car you have to 'drive' a little more to get the best from it I suppose, I.e think more about throttle modulation and feeding in the power etc. Nothing wrong with either approach tho.

The M135i isn't a mad tail-happy monster that will throw you in the first hedge if it's not dry and you are enjoying the performance tho ;-) Yes, you can get the tail to step out abit if you turn the stability control down a notch and are deliberately trying to provoke it but with traction/stability fully on its great in the wet, even when "pushing on". Lateral grip level is outstanding. You'd have to be driving like an absolute mentalist on the road in order to lose it imho. I never once felt remotely close to a brown-trouser moment during my ownership tbh. Which brings me back to my original point.. In most people's hands, driving within their limits on the public road there isn't much performance margin between these cars. :-)

Nail on the head  . Many people still seem to persist in the belief that Grip and handling are the same thing too :( For what it's worth, I'm still impressed with the amount of traction I get in the wet although when the outside temp drops as it has now and you add a bit of wet, it is definitely easier to make the back step out if you start to disable the Nanny systems.

[Lady Elanore]

Btw I should add that FWD, pseudo 4x4, and full time 4x4s, can have fun handling and it's not RWD that has the monopoly on it

[vrskeith]

Yeah I can see the appeal of the golf R for its 4wd wet weather ability and comfort blanket factor. So flattering for the average driver, just mash the throttle and the car will sort everything out for you.

Some prefer a car you have to 'drive' a little more to get the best from it I suppose, I.e think more about throttle modulation and feeding in the power etc. Nothing wrong with either approach tho.

The M135i isn't a mad tail-happy monster that will throw you in the first hedge if it's not dry and you are enjoying the performance tho ;-) Yes, you can get the tail to step out abit if you turn the stability control down a notch and are deliberately trying to provoke it but with traction/stability fully on its great in the wet, even when "pushing on". Lateral grip level is outstanding. You'd have to be driving like an absolute mentalist on the road in order to lose it imho. I never once felt remotely close to a brown-trouser moment during my ownership tbh. Which brings me back to my original point.. In most people's hands, driving within their limits on the public road there isn't much performance margin between these cars. :-)

Absolutely Tom:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3VwgvIqXg3A#

[fabdavrav]

Yeah I can see the appeal of the golf R for its 4wd wet weather ability and comfort blanket factor. So flattering for the average driver, just mash the throttle and the car will sort everything out for you.

Some prefer a car you have to 'drive' a little more to get the best from it I suppose, I.e think more about throttle modulation and feeding in the power etc. Nothing wrong with either approach tho.

 

 

I think I am getting older.........& the roads are getting worse around here as I like the "comfort blanket "..........if I had to have a dream garage I would actually have three RWD cars..............

 

late 80's Aston vantage enlarged to 7.3lts............Morgan Aero speed......................eagle e-type roadster................

 

But I'd also have a Golf R as a daily hack..............if only they did the estate in manual the flipping idiots!!!

[fabiamk2SE]

Very true Steve! In the real world, on uk roads there is absolutely nothing to separate the current crop of hot hatches in terms of A to B pace imho.

Speed is limited entirely by line of sight, traffic and licence preservation factors. I.e the driver who is the biggest nut-job will be quickest.

Lap times, journo opinions, magazine shootouts and 'ring times are all good fun for abit of pub banter but that's about it. Which car is "better" is solely down to the individual and personal preference :-)

Damn right!

I know some right nutters.. Even slow cars can suprise when theyre reallyyy pushed.

Fast stuff is ballistic in the right hands. 4 wheel slides etc etc. Its all down to skill and balls haha.

[Defenderben]

TBH I have actually been a lot faster for longer in my Fiesta ST over certain twisty stretches of road that I still go over regularly in my R but because the R feels so much heavier and bigger I wouldn't try to match what I did in the Fez!

I see the R as an extremely capable everyday comfortable car with masses of grip and in the right hands could drive the wheels off most cars but I never get the urge to really push it anywhere near my or its limits. It's just a nice place to be

Also I have no inclination to take it to a track, think I'm getting old, probably if I had no intention of keeping it long term, then I might drive it a bit differently

Edited 6 January, 2016 by Defenderben

[vrskeith]

Defenderben,

I enjoyed driving the Fiesta ST when me and the missus were test driving for her next set of wheels.

I wonder if you would find the manual a better package than the DSG on quick twisty roads on the moors.

[Defenderben]

The DSG is so far removed from the interaction of a manual and for me DSG encourages me to drive in a more relaxed manner but I also just find the Golf feels a heavyweight, in comparison to the Fiesta.

Probably should compare the Fiesta ST to a Polo GTI but never taken a Polo for a proper twisty road drive. The Golf feels lighter and more nimble than my Octavia vRS.

[stever750]

I find that the for the most part the max safe speed is often so far within the cars grip envelope it's boring. Agreed grip and handling often confused. The new cooking octavia rental car I had handles better than my previous gen vrs with uprated RARB fitted, but nowhere near as much grip. Lots more fun to chuck around. I prefer a car to have little grip so finding the limit doesn't require insane speeds. Much more fun.

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[stever750]

Just read your top gear link Keith. I knew the outcome as you'd posted it I wonder though how the leon cupra hatch would have faired, these things are often psychological. I didn't find the R any more of an angry monster, though one thing I've realised is adaptive dampers are a waste of money. There can only be one optimum damper setting for a given car mass and spring rates, the other settings are always going to be either under damped bouncy or over damped crashy.

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[Lady Elanore]

Just read your top gear link Keith. I knew the outcome as you'd posted it

 

If that's the one were that well known pugilist/idiot Clonkson tries to kill himself in an M135, then it was hardly surprising. In a shot before his spin, you can see the speedo spinning around to the 130mph mark and he has disabled the stability control and put the car into it's most aggressive setting, all this on a cold, sodden day with large amounts of standing water He really is a pillock. Also just before the spin (I think it was claimed to be only 120 mph?) you see a side shot where the stability controls are once again turned off. Perhaps he thinks he really is a driving god and that physics don't apply to him

[stever750]

No it was a different one. Post Clarkson I think. I think it was written by an ex daily mail type.

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[dan4291]

I've tried to drive over my favourite roads in Co Durham - twisty, empty, good vision on many fast open stretches - with the speed limiter set to 60mph. It's horrendous and in one ore two places you can hold up white vans It's what I found with the M3, so quick that there is nowhere legal that you can exploit it for more than a few seconds at a time, unless you go to private roads/track etc  :(

 

Slightly off topic, but what are your favourite roads in County Durham?

[Chubbs]

I was hoping for a good pch first quarter deal but alas they've pulled all decent offers, they've obviously sold enough units for now!

[old newbie2]

The DSG is so far removed from the interaction of a manual and for me DSG encourages me to drive in a more relaxed manner but I also just find the Golf feels a heavyweight, in comparison to the Fiesta.

Probably should compare the Fiesta ST to a Polo GTI but never taken a Polo for a proper twisty road drive. The Golf feels lighter and more nimble than my Octavia vRS.

Interesting thoughts, but the ability to "drive in a more relaxed manner" is why my wife finds the Golf R appealing, albeit seriously expensive, (for a golf....) 

It's probably our great age & too many years of motoring colouring our judgement, but we seem to enjoy reasonably rapid motoring but without the drama these days.

 

As for manuals, we've both been there, etc, 'cos that's all we could afford,but neither of us want to own a manual any more, too much workload for very little gain.

We did grow-up with dreadful slushbox automatics that were not suitable for  small-engined European cars. (worst car that I can remember, '65 Vauxhall Victor 101, 1.6 petrol attached to a 2-speed GH Hydramatic Yuk) but technology improves & we find it hard to fault the 3 DSG's that we own, other than feeling a little lazy, even when driving briskly.

 

When / if she decides to buy an "R" it would have to be the DSG only estate to give similar boot space to her current vRS Octy 2,

 

If I had my way we'd be choosing a Superb 280 wagon, probably a bit cheaper, still nice to drive & with enough space for all our stuff.

No so much fun on the twisties of course, but we don't live anywhere near any of the UK's "driving roads" + we would keep a smaller car for "fundays".....

 

DC

[Ootohere]

Interesting article, well it was IMO.

http://telegraph.co.uk/luxury/motoring/54092/vw-golf-gti-the-everyday-wonder.html

[stever750]

That article is everything I dislike about car ownership: badge snobbery. Buying a car for what you think it says over what it does is nonsense, and has no place in the world of the enthusiast or "petrol head". If the R is real world cheaper (interesting man maths perhaps?) then why you would choose a std gti over one is just odd..... Maybe it's just me.

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