Have Skoda set their sights too low?

[skovirg]

I've just been reading with interest about the eagerly awaited Superb. According to Auto Express,  Skoda chairman Prof Dr Winfried Vahland says that "we’re not talking about beating the Passat here – that’s moved up a class – but we want the new Superb to sit above cars like the Vauxhall Insignia.

Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/superb/89862/new-skoda-superb-2015-pics-specs-and-video#ixzz3SUEdX800

 

What do think? Is that ambitious enough for the flagship model or are VAG making sure that there is clear blue water between the quality of their marquees?

[Richf]

Still a brand image issue though , possible there always will be , maybe its easier to start afresh than to turn a brand around

 

Its getting to the point where there is little difference in price , little difference in dealerships experience (shame) with VW

 

But the sheer amount of space in the Superb puts it in a unique position in the VAG stable imo

[numskull]

I've just been reading with interest about the eagerly awaited Superb. According to Auto Express,  Skoda chairman Prof Dr Winfried Vahland says that "we’re not talking about beating the Passat here – that’s moved up a class – but we want the new Superb to sit above cars like the Vauxhall Insignia.

Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/superb/89862/new-skoda-superb-2015-pics-specs-and-video#ixzz3SUEdX800

 

What do think? Is that ambitious enough for the flagship model or are VAG making sure that there is clear blue water between the quality of their marquees?

The MKII is already way ahead in build quality of the awful (imho) Insignia. If the MKIII build is even better, I think it's a no brainer...

[RapidRonnie]

I think the Passat thing is group politics, the Superb maybe cannibalised it's sales too much in Germany.

I think they've differentiated them enough for it not to matter tbh.. Passat is a saloon, Superb is a liftback. Passat is actually longer but has a shorter wheelbase.. Passat gets the biTDI engine but Skoda get a more powerful petrol. Passat also has no petrol 4wds.

I think they should both sit between the Mondeo / Insignia class and BMW/Merc, but if the group strategy means the Superb is cheaper than the Passat then that's good news

[Alvaro]

Obviously Skoda Chairman is not going to say something like "Superb is equal or better than the Passat and cheaper, so if you buy a VW you are stupid". Brand politics rules the world. So they had decided the new Passat is going to move up a class (so... what is going to happen with new A4, shall it compete with Maserati :p  but that's another story...).

 

All in all we should forget about the Passat, the Insignia, the Mondeo, etc, and concentrate on what is really important for us: Superb is going to be cheaper than the Passat. Those are good news :clap:

[gadgetman]

Does it still feature the split saloon/hatchback boot?

[joeboy1980]

I think the Passat thing is group politics, the Superb maybe cannibalised it's sales too much in Germany.

I think they've differentiated them enough for it not to matter tbh.. Passat is a saloon, Superb is a liftback. Passat is actually longer but has a shorter wheelbase.. Passat gets the biTDI engine but Skoda get a more powerful petrol. Passat also has no petrol 4wds.

I think they should both sit between the Mondeo / Insignia class and BMW/Merc, but if the group strategy means the Superb is cheaper than the Passat then that's good news

Passat's (European ones I mean) have never been longer than the Superb's. The new passat is 4767mm long and SIII is 28mm longer than SII I believe. So SIII is 4866mm.....so, SIII is nearly 100mm longer than Passat.

Edited 22 February, 2015 by joeboy1980

[RapidRonnie]

Does it still feature the split saloon/hatchback boot?

No just hatchback but with electronic opening.

[gadgetman]

No just hatchback but with electronic opening.

Shame, but the BMW licensing I'm sure brings in the reddies

[RapidRonnie]

Passat's (European ones I mean) have never been longer than the Superb's. The new passat is 4767mm long and SIII is 28mm longer than SII I believe. So SIII is 4866mm.....so, SIII is nearly 100mm longer than Passat.

 

Oh yeah, sorry, I had read the length of the Passat including a towbar.

[Superb170]

I have to admit I was put off a little by the statement that the Passat have moved up, we're not competing.....but I do think that despite best efforts at marketing the Superb will naturally find its level in the marketplace in time and it may well continue to cannibalise the PassatPersonally I think they should have openly pitched it against the 5 series and e-class- the A6 is a strong enough brand not to be too affected (certainly less affected than the Passat would be by the Superb) . The Octavia should have been moved up slightly to compete in the medium segment properly.

Then again, maybe that's the whole point of the Skoda brand - let each model straddle a couple of sectors, fighting the lower segment on space (by offering more space like the Octavia versus Golf) and the higher segments on spec

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[JungleJames]

I have to admit I was put off a little by the statement that the Passat have moved up, we're not competing.....but I do think that despite best efforts at marketing the Superb will naturally find its level in the marketplace in time and it may well continue to cannibalise the PassatPersonally I think they should have openly pitched it against the 5 series and e-class- the A6 is a strong enough brand not to be too affected (certainly less affected than the Passat would be by the Superb) . The Octavia should have been moved up slightly to compete in the medium segment properly.

Then again, maybe that's the whole point of the Skoda brand - let each model straddle a couple of sectors, fighting the lower segment on space (by offering more space like the Octavia versus Golf) and the higher segments on spec

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Problem with pitching it against E Class and 5 Series, is there needs to be a massive step change in quality, in sound proofing, in suspension setup etc. Without that, the Superb wouldn't be able to compete, even if it offered more space. If it did step up in quality to compete in this executive car class, then up goes the price massively, and all of a sudden Skoda have totally changed who they are. You are also reducing the numbers of vehicles you would sell, as family cars will always sell in larger numbers.

Perhaps the answer is to introduce another flagship model. Something similar size to Superb, but much nicer.

[Superb170]

Problem with pitching it against E Class and 5 Series, is there needs to be a massive step change in quality, in sound proofing, in suspension setup etc. Without that, the Superb wouldn't be able to compete, even if it offered more space. If it did step up in quality to compete in this executive car class, then up goes the price massively, and all of a sudden Skoda have totally changed who they are. You are also reducing the numbers of vehicles you would sell, as family cars will always sell in larger numbers.

Perhaps the answer is to introduce another flagship model. Something similar size to Superb, but much nicer.

It was more wishful thinking on my part I suppose and maybe they will produce a Phaeton-type model some day if they can position it right within VAG.  I totally get the commercial side (being an accountant!) and the need to keep costs down and churn out the volumes while preserving the brand image within the overall VAG group.

[RapidRonnie]

Maybe they are trying to position Skoda as the new Volkswagen, Audi remains the same, and VW fits somewhere in the middle.

[Markyg]

I thought skoda was trying to move a bit downmarket . The new Fabia and rapids have quite cheap interiors. It wouldn't surprise me if cost cutting went upwards too towards the Octavia and superb.

Although despite the quality coming down, the prices are going up meaning that in a lot of cases it's cheaper to get an equivalent vw or Audi. In the case of the new Fabia you can get far better deals on the equivalent polo and probably even A1.

[JungleJames]

I thought skoda was trying to move a bit downmarket . The new Fabia and rapids have quite cheap interiors. It wouldn't surprise me if cost cutting went upwards too towards the Octavia and superb.

Although despite the quality coming down, the prices are going up meaning that in a lot of cases it's cheaper to get an equivalent vw or Audi. In the case of the new Fabia you can get far better deals on the equivalent polo and probably even A1.

I wouldn't say the Octy has gone downmarket. Be very surprised if the Fabia has either. The Fabia may have the odd material which looks a little cheaper, but, like the Octy, surely the overall cabin seems a lot more upmarket?

The Octy has a very nice feeling dash, has quite an upmarket feel, and the only thing letting it down (apart from the suspension on the hatchback) is the doorcards could be a bit nicer. Change those 2 things, and id say the Octy is an absolute winner.

[joeboy1980]

I wouldn't say the Octy has gone downmarket. Be very surprised if the Fabia has either. The Fabia may have the odd material which looks a little cheaper, but, like the Octy, surely the overall cabin seems a lot more upmarket?

The Octy has a very nice feeling dash, has quite an upmarket feel, and the only thing letting it down (apart from the suspension on the hatchback) is the doorcards could be a bit nicer. Change those 2 things, and id say the Octy is an absolute winner.

What's wrong with the door in Octavia? Is it the grab handle? If yes, Superb has a similar grab handle on the door (same as Passat, Golf, A4, A6......etc)...

 

One of the reasons why they go for this type of door handle is it allows a larger door bin where you can keep a bottle angled upright etc...If you look at SII which has a 'pull cup door handle' which is functional and ergonomically works out well but it has an impact on the door bin size/shape where you can keep the bottle only horizontally! And this limits the usability and accessibility of the bottle particularly.

 

VW and of course Skoda focus a lot on usability and the size of the door bins so that we customers can store a lot of things in the door bin. In SIII, you can keep 1.5 litre bottle upright in the door bin or may be 2 litre bottles....This doesn't mean that grab handle position / angle / location should be compromised due to door bin.....

[JungleJames]

What's wrong with the door in Octavia? Is it the grab handle? If yes, Superb has a similar grab handle on the door (same as Passat, Golf, A4, A6......etc)...

 

One of the reasons why they go for this type of door handle is it allows a larger door bin where you can keep a bottle angled upright etc...If you look at SII which has a 'pull cup door handle' which is functional and ergonomically works out well but it has an impact on the door bin size/shape where you can keep the bottle only horizontally! And this limits the usability and accessibility of the bottle particularly.

 

VW and of course Skoda focus a lot on usability and the size of the door bins so that we customers can store a lot of things in the door bin. In SIII, you can keep 1.5 litre bottle upright in the door bin or may be 2 litre bottles....This doesn't mean that grab handle position / angle / location should be compromised due to door bin.....

No not the grab handle. Never noticed anything wrong with it anyway.

Im thinking more the cheap looking and feeling plastic door card. Its only a very minor gripe. Just trying to find ways the car could be made even better.

 

The door bin isn't all its cracked up to be though. Yes it is slightly larger than say my old Ford, but not much larger, and the area at the front of the door for the bottle isn't that amazing. Im sure ive seen 1.5l bottles mentioned? Not a chance, unless it is empty and can be squeezed a plenty. 1l may be possible, just. Yes its better than other vehicles though, of that there is no doubt.

[Nick P]

One of the reasons why they go for this type of door handle is it allows a larger door bin where you can keep a bottle angled upright etc...If you look at SII which has a 'pull cup door handle' which is functional and ergonomically works out well but it has an impact on the door bin size/shape where you can keep the bottle only horizontally! And this limits the usability and accessibility of the bottle particularly.

 

I don't completely agree with that. The Octavia 2 had the best of both worlds. You can put 1.5 litre bottles in them. The Superb 2 ones just weren't a very practical design.

 

[faradaycage]

I thought skoda was trying to move a bit downmarket . The new Fabia and rapids have quite cheap interiors. It wouldn't surprise me if cost cutting went upwards too towards the Octavia and superb.

Although despite the quality coming down, the prices are going up meaning that in a lot of cases it's cheaper to get an equivalent vw or Audi. In the case of the new Fabia you can get far better deals on the equivalent polo and probably even A1.

I do wish Skoda would do something about the interior plastics,right across their entire range.

[Danny 57]

I do wish Skoda would do something about the interior plastics,right across their entire range.

That understanbly I am afraid would mean a higher cost.

[Paul007]

And do a proper conversion for RHD.

[joeboy1980]

I don't completely agree with that. The Octavia 2 had the best of both worlds. You can put 1.5 litre bottles in them. The Superb 2 ones just weren't a very practical design.

 

Nick,

I'm talking about current generation cars and the safety regulations/requirements have changed a lot since the 2004 Octavia's, Golf's etc. There are side impact requirements to be met which means the bins are usually pushed forward along with the speakers or the speakers are door rearward which are over 'pelvic pushers' (safety - side impact requirements! But this could result in poor audio performance.

 

The 2004 Octavia (I had one previously) also had some ergonomic flaws such as a small door armrest, the window switches were not in the right place etc...So, it is the entire pack which matters. It is not just about the door bins for the customer....these guys have to make sure even the switches and controls are in the right place for us. Generally and in my opinion, VW/VAG are pretty good at these. You will always have some compromises here and there coz it's very hard to get everything perfectly laid out.

[old newbie2]

And do a proper conversion for RHD.

What would you want to be different in a RHD car?

[Paul007]

The bonnet release is on the wrong side for the UK market, so is the handbrake and the armrest. All issues discussed elsewhere on here.