Moto GP 2015

[Lady Elanore]

I still can't get used to those cameras, as you say they do a fantastic job showing just how ridiculously low they get the bikes and while I understand the physics it still looks wrong how much they tilt the bikes.

 

As mentioned above, motorbike riding is hugely physical as they mostly control the bike through the movement of their body and there's a lot of stress on their forearms particularly if the bike is suffering from chatter where there's more vibration coming through the front of the bike which Casey Stoner frequently complained about on the Honda.

 

John

Until about a year ago I was a very keen cycle rider and have done many 100 mile plus rides so I know what vibration can do to your arms Coming down really big hills, say 2-4 miles decent can make your forearms ache if you need to slow down regularly (bloomin corners and sheep etc). but I guess that is only a taster of what MotoGP riders experience. Rossi always looks skinny though, I never noticed he had big forearms (or does he just not slow down for corners )

[Lady Elanore]

No, just straight pressure on the lever. To be honest, once you are talking a motorsport vehicle, whether it be car or bike, the servo goes straight in the bin, so they can feel the brakes and control them much better, arm pump can sometimes be caused by the gyroscopic effect on the steering when cranked over at speed - stoner got it a lot on the Ducati, but I'm not sure that is Pedrosa's problem.

 

 

looking at how fast those Ducati's are, the riders will have arms the size and shape of Space hoppers by the end of the season

[kentphil1]

Moto GP riders are super fit, as has been said above, the G forces are just incredible. Just think. Marc was the slower of the Marquez brothers in the lower classes when they raced there - frightening isn't it. Rossi is just a god..................that is all.

[camelspyyder]

Marc took a long time to get his first 125 win (considering he had a works RedBull KTM), but when he got one boy did the floodgates open.  Alex M has never impressed me so much in Moto 3 - he was always slower than Rins in the same team - I still dont quite know how he won the title. TBH neither of them set the Moto2 paddock afire last week whereas Marc was damn near invincible in that series.

[kentphil1]

Race craft doesn't seem natural for Alex, but when the penny drops, I think he will be quick, maybe quicker than Marc.

[camelspyyder]

Question?

 

How many titles would Rossi have won if he hadn't got off the RC211 in search of a new challenge?

 

I dont think the Yamaha would ever have become a winner without his impetus.

I think he would won '06 when the unremarkable Hayden was best of the rest.

In '07 on a Honda he would have had enough to beat Stoner's Ducati.

I reckon 2001-2011 straight was definitely on. Unless Jorge had ended up on the same bike at some point.

[kentphil1]

The thing is, people at the top of their game have to feel they are getting a challenge, and I think he felt stale at Honda even though the equipment was first class.

[Lady Elanore]

There is this thing, that people who don't participate in the sport they are watching, can recognise greatness. Franz Klammer, Muhammad Ali, Isinbyava  and Rossi to name a random few. Not sure what it is, but there is an ability to just be better than the rest when they need to. I've watched motoGP on and off for several years and have repeatedly watched Rossi hunt down the leaders and towards the end of the race, though skill and probably looking after his tyres etc, just go faster and harder. You knew it was coming and were shocked if it didn't. For me, he was and is a great.

[kentphil1]

It took Rossi a hell of a time to get his mojo back after the Simonicelli incident (and rightly so as they were friends), but he seems comfortable with his head now, and if that race was anything to go by, there will be a lot of long faces and inward thinking by the others this year - game on for the Doctor.

 

Only thing is, the Yamaha engineers have their work cut out to deal with the straight line speed of the Ducatis this year.

[tweenster]

Only thing is, the Yamaha engineers have their work cut out to deal with the straight line speed of the Ducatis this year.

Aren't the Ducatis benefiting from this season's rule changes and if they are successful will start to lose some of these benefits. They mentioned at the end of the TV coverage that the first benefit they will lose is the additional fuel allowance.

[thejames]

Ducati have already now lost some of their extra fuel allowance. This past weekend brought them up to 3 (dry) podiums since the start of last season. From now on they can only use 22 litres instead of 24. Honda and Yamaha use 20. Ducati aren't worried and said they they've never used over 22 litres anyway.

If they score 3 (dry) wins they'll lose the option of the soft tyre. This is the only other concession they can lose this season.

[thejames]

Have just been doing some reading... Re: DP's replacement, Honda have confirmed that Casey Stoner was approached. However due to limited testing and because these particular tracks are unknown to him, they stuck with the test rider.

[Chriswright03]

Without a doubt Rossi is still a major force to be considered.  He has the skill the craft and now without doubt the determination to be the best rider out there.  Can he beat Marquez in a straight race?  Without a doubt as long as Yamaha produce the goods for him.

 

It was interesting to hear Cal Crutchlow talking about riding the Honda when he said that the bosses told him it wasn't easy to ride and he stated that it was harder to ride than the Yamaha or the Ducati.  It is all about finding the edge and Marquez seems to have that as many a time you see him going into a corner with the front locked up and the back wheel in the air and yet he still makes the apex. 

 

If Ducati can continue with this pace it will be a very interesting season.  Suzuki have a bit of catching up to do and I don't think they will feature much towards the front this year and as for Aprillia well less said the better I think other than doesn't Melandri look miserable?

 

Amanda many riders in the paddock now suffer or have suffered with arm pump.  Many have had operations like Danny Pedrosa to relieve it some more successful than him.  As regards the braking they stop from 200 plus mph with one or maybe two fingers on the brake but the forces on the arms are all that weight and G stopping their weight at the rate of knots.

 

As regards Rossi being skinny well he is, they all are.  They train hard and their isn't an ounce of excess fat on them likewise they do not have massive muscles because of course bulk is weight.  Mind you Danny Pedrosa is a dwarf!.

 

Regards Chris

[camelspyyder]

kentphil1, on 06 Apr 2015 - 02:14, said:

It took Rossi a hell of a time to get his mojo back after the Simonicelli incident (and rightly so as they were friends), but he seems comfortable with his head now, and if that race was anything to go by, there will be a lot of long faces and inward thinking by the others this year - game on for the Doctor.

 

Only thing is, the Yamaha engineers have their work cut out to deal with the straight line speed of the Ducatis this year.

 

and the speed of the Honda's too, from the on screen speed trap figures during the race, Honda were faster than Yamaha as well..

 

 

Suzuki aren't a million miles away, Alex was 4th in FP.

 

Aprilia & Melandri - he wanted to stay on their superbike and fight for wins (and the championship).  They sent him to a back of the grid MotoGP bike instead - no wonder he's demotivated and slow.

Edited 6 April, 2015 by camelspyyder

[JohnMcL7]

Until about a year ago I was a very keen cycle rider and have done many 100 mile plus rides so I know what vibration can do to your arms Coming down really big hills, say 2-4 miles decent can make your forearms ache if you need to slow down regularly (bloomin corners and sheep etc). but I guess that is only a taster of what MotoGP riders experience. Rossi always looks skinny though, I never noticed he had big forearms (or does he just not slow down for corners )

 

What's quite interesting about the MotoGP bikes (and motorbikes in general if they're going fast) that I never really thought about is that as they tilt the bike over to almost flat, the suspension becomes less and less effective as it's almost perpendicular to the surface so they have to try and incorporate flex into the bike chassis so it there's some up and down movement when the bike is on its side.

 

I've just dug my road bike out its winter hibernation and needless to say I'm finding it a little hard going on my arms going from a bike with a 4in 2psi front tyre to a slick 120psi front tyre :|

 

John

[Lady Elanore]

Does the suspension not still work as the forces are still going straight through the suspension to the road as it is cantered over experiencing centrifugal motion ie if you spin a conker around your head, the string is still under strain, so the suspension on a horizontal bike will still be reasonably effective. I just don't understand how they can lean a bike over at those speeds without their huge private parts rubbing on the ground. Brave doesn't even begin to cover it

[Chriswright03]

They did a demonstration last year with Jorge Lorenzos Yamaha fixed on a frame at the maximum angle of lean about 63 degrees I think it is.  He actually could not stay on it whilst it was still.  Not only do they scrape their elbows now since Marques started it but Scott Redding even managed to touch his helmet down whilst playing around.  It seriously defies the laws of gravity to my mind especially when you see how little of the tyres are in contact with the track at that angle.

 

Something you may well know about though Amanda is the tremendous slow mo cameras they use now to capture all of this.  Thousands of frames a second and that in itself has added a new dimension to the viewing along with the on board cameras.

 

Motorcycling is about the only sport that I am interested in these days and with the British Superbikes, World Superbikes and the Moto Gp we are well and truly spoilt and I am looking forward to next weekends race already.

Regards Chris

[Lady Elanore]

They did a demonstration last year with Jorge Lorenzos Yamaha fixed on a frame at the maximum angle of lean about 63 degrees I think it is.  He actually could not stay on it whilst it was still.  Not only do they scrape their elbows now since Marques started it but Scott Redding even managed to touch his helmet down whilst playing around.  It seriously defies the laws of gravity to my mind especially when you see how little of the tyres are in contact with the track at that angle.

 

Something you may well know about though Amanda is the tremendous slow mo cameras they use now to capture all of this.  Thousands of frames a second and that in itself has added a new dimension to the viewing along with the on board cameras.

 

Motorcycling is about the only sport that I am interested in these days and with the British Superbikes, World Superbikes and the Moto Gp we are well and truly spoilt and I am looking forward to next weekends race already.

Regards Chris

The thing that impresses me about these super slo mo cameras is they can work in poor-ish light these days. There was a time when if you wanted very high frame rates you needed huge amounts of lights. Mind you if you watch Wimbledon and they use the super slo mo with the roof shut on Centre Court. you can see the lights flicker and the whole thing looks a little grainy and dim. Plus the weight is getting so light to enable the riders not to worry about their centre of gravity being moved upwards. All clever stuff. Mind you, think how brave the cameraman is that operates the camera on the back of the bike. They never seem to fall off

[thejames]

Chris: this is the Lean Angle piece you saw. It looks even more ridiculous when the bike is stationary!!

[Chriswright03]

Yup James that is the one!  I was wondering where I could find it.  Obviously without momentum the lean angle is much reduced.  For those of you that have (or had) bikes you will know one degree too much lean when you are stationary and it is on the ground.  Oh and that is much less than in the picture.   Hell I don't even get the edge of my tyres worn let alone my knee down.  Mind you I also don't feel the need to wear knee sliders and grind them on an angle grinder to make me look cool.  Oh and that doesn't work if you grind them the wrong way as I have seen in the past.

 

Regards Chris

[JohnMcL7]

Does the suspension not still work as the forces are still going straight through the suspension to the road as it is cantered over experiencing centrifugal motion ie if you spin a conker around your head, the string is still under strain, so the suspension on a horizontal bike will still be reasonably effective. I just don't understand how they can lean a bike over at those speeds without their huge private parts rubbing on the ground. Brave doesn't even begin to cover it

 

No because the race surface is still largely level so when the bike is fully leaned over the suspension is at a very different angle.  What you've said with centrifugal force would work if the track was also banked so that hat the suspension remained at the same angle to the race track.  If you've not seen a film called Fastest (a film made about MotoGP around five years ago) I'd highly recommend it, I wasn't aware of this sort of issue and others - they had some superb super slow motion shots showing the entire bike chassis and fairing flexing as the bike rides over bumps while fully leaned over. 

 

One of the extras was a section about they physics with a couple of different people which was also interesting, aside from the crazy physics what's also difficult is they can't really measure any of it as it's all about the rider feel and the feedback they give.  They've apparently attempted it by putting sensors in the bike's foot pegs, seat and other places but they couldn't make sense of the information - when they asked a rider why he was putting more pressure on the foot pegs in certain corners, he couldn't explain it as he just did what felt right.

 

John

[Lady Elanore]

But crazy angle aside, the bike tyre is providing a force equal and opposite the compression of the bikes suspension. It might be a slight offset line as it's the sidewall of the tyre that has the active contact patch, but doesn't this nevertheless produce an equal and opposite reaction to the forces pushing the bike outwards on the bend?

[camelspyyder]

Dovi out-duelled Marquez in wet FP1 at Austin - the Ducati is still fast.

[Chriswright03]

Did you see the Marquez save though Camel?  Lightning quick reactions.  Wet doesn't really cover it though does it?  It was torrential and I wouldn't want to be out in it let alone at those speeds.  Just caught site of the latest and Cal is second fastest.  Looking forward to see how this one goes.

Regards Chris

[JohnMcL7]

But crazy angle aside, the bike tyre is providing a force equal and opposite the compression of the bikes suspension. It might be a slight offset line as it's the sidewall of the tyre that has the active contact patch, but doesn't this nevertheless produce an equal and opposite reaction to the forces pushing the bike outwards on the bend?

 

It's not, the tyres will squish a little but it's the shock absorbers and similar on the bike which are doing most of the work - to take the extreme example, if you place a shock absorber at 90 degrees on a hard surface, it won't be able to absorb any up and down force on it.

 

John