The 280PS Thread

[Vruis]

48 minutes ago, Aciduzzo said:

Hello, all. 

I'll be picking up my March 19 ex-Skoda UK (K plate) DSG Superb on Saturday - i can't wait! The only negative is that it's the 272 version. What I'm wondering is how, despite the slight power loss, does it manage to be a fraction quicker (over 0-60) than the 280? Could it be the newer gearbox, perhaps? If so, any other advantages to the new 7-speed DSG? 

 

I've had several of both. 

 

The 272 is fractionally quicker. What it loses in peak power it gains in greater torque through most of the rev range (i.e. it makes more power more of the time than the 280). You notice it most at wide open throttle and low revs. 

 

The 7 speed box is better too, reacts slightly quicker and has some closer stacked ratios. Crucially, 7th gear is much taller than the 6th on the 280, meaning it's revving a lot lower at motorway speed. 

 

[Vruis]

4 minutes ago, Vruis said:

 

I've had several of both. 

 

The 272 is fractionally quicker. What it loses in peak power it gains in greater torque through most of the rev range (i.e. it makes more power more of the time than the 280). You notice it most at wide open throttle and low revs. 

 

The 7 speed box is better too, reacts slightly quicker and has some closer stacked ratios. Crucially, 7th gear is much taller than the 6th on the 280, meaning it's revving a lot lower at motorway speed. 

 

 

Actually, ignore all that. I've just looked up the specs - I must be confusing it with one of the other EA888 variants. 

 

It must be the gearbox, because there's nothing different about the torque. It does feel fractionally quicker though. 

[KeteCantek]

2 hours ago, Aciduzzo said:

Hello, all. 

I'll be picking up my March 19 ex-Skoda UK (K plate) DSG Superb on Saturday - i can't wait! The only negative is that it's the 272 version. What I'm wondering is how, despite the slight power loss, does it manage to be a fraction quicker (over 0-60) than the 280? Could it be the newer gearbox, perhaps? If so, any other advantages to the new 7-speed DSG? 

Probably the best ratios but just as likely Skoda tweaked the numbers because the 280 is quicker than the spec.  The 7th will give lower revs so will help economy. My 280 at 70mph sits at 2500rpm iirc. 

 

Enjoy it.

[JonPip]

Absolutely agree with DCC comments. The front damping is way too soft in anything but sport mode. I guess this is fixed in 2020 iteration?

[RGKTSi]

Swings and roundabouts comparing the 280 and 272.

272 May have GPF where as the 280 defiantly does not.

DQ250 not as quick reacting as the 7 speed in the 272 which has a higher ratio too help for better cruising. So that is where the slightly lower 0 - 60 time comes from.

Now the disadvantage over the 280. Non valved exhaust and only one outlet either inside not the trim where as the 280 has 2 either side.

Also the 272 engine runs 4 injectors where as the 280 runs eight. Big advantage if you go down the mapping route.

When my warranty runs out in March next year I am going stage 2 map with a few ancillary parts, airbox, other less restrictive pipework and turbo muffler delete. Will probably change the downpipe with a less restrictive cat. All this will see it produce 400bhp, low 4's 0 - 60. 

Will also have map installed on the DSG gearbox.

[Raymundo91]

10 hours ago, RGKTSi said:

Swings and roundabouts comparing the 280 and 272.

272 May have GPF where as the 280 defiantly does not.

DQ250 not as quick reacting as the 7 speed in the 272 which has a higher ratio too help for better cruising. So that is where the slightly lower 0 - 60 time comes from.

Now the disadvantage over the 280. Non valved exhaust and only one outlet either inside not the trim where as the 280 has 2 either side.

Also the 272 engine runs 4 injectors where as the 280 runs eight. Big advantage if you go down the mapping route.

When my warranty runs out in March next year I am going stage 2 map with a few ancillary parts, airbox, other less restrictive pipework and turbo muffler delete. Will probably change the downpipe with a less restrictive cat. All this will see it produce 400bhp, low 4's 0 - 60. 

Will also have map installed on the DSG gearbox.

I'm really toying with the idea of mapping mine to either stage 1 or 2 but also don't want to damage the engine because knowing my luck it'll end up blowing and costing me a fortune 

[shyVRS245]

7 minutes ago, Raymundo91 said:

I'm really toying with the idea of mapping mine to either stage 1 or 2 but also don't want to damage the engine because knowing my luck it'll end up blowing and costing me a fortune 

My 242bhp Octavia went stage 1 at 7,000 miles in March 2018 and then stage 2 in October 2018 at 14,500 miles. Now at 28,600 miles and nearly 28 months old it has been 100% reliable despite having 94bhp extra and 147nm of torque over standard. There is even a front wheel drive hybrid turbo Mk7 Golf GTi with 520bhp with the standard engine block and internals. Mine is manual and still on the standard clutch (fingers crossed).

[Raymundo91]

5 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

My 242bhp Octavia went stage 1 at 7,000 miles in March 2018 and then stage 2 in October 2018 at 14,500 miles. Now at 28,600 miles and nearly 28 months old it has been 100% reliable despite having 94bhp extra and 147nm of torque over standard. There is even a front wheel drive hybrid turbo Mk7 Golf GTi with 520bhp with the standard engine block and internals. Mine is manual and still on the standard clutch (fingers crossed).

Hmm i think i may stage 1 it then. Think around 350hp would be nice 

[shyVRS245]

9 minutes ago, Raymundo91 said:

Hmm i think i may stage 1 it then. Think around 350hp would be nice 

Life's too short to wonder what if this happens. Otherwise we would never board a plane and see all the wonders on this amazing Planet.

[RGKTSi]

12 hours ago, Raymundo91 said:

I'm really toying with the idea of mapping mine to either stage 1 or 2 but also don't want to damage the engine because knowing my luck it'll end up blowing and costing me a fortune 

You are correct that stage 1 about 350 and stage 2 about 400. Stage 3 is when it gets serious to about 500bhp but you need a hybrid of different turbo for that.

From the tuners I have contacted and posts I have read on "FB" and a VW/Seat/Skoda tuning magazine, stage 2 is the sweet spot. Car will reliable ,stage 3 is when things get a little stressed. Either stage 1 of 2 is where it's at. Enjoy.

I am definitely going stage 2 as I fancy that magical 400bhp😝😂😂😂😂😂

[RGKTSi]

@shyVRS245 is spot on and good to here from an owner of a mapped car, they can be totally reliable, just find a knowledgeable and well respected specialist that does maps and you are good to go. 

[shyVRS245]

9 hours ago, RGKTSi said:

@shyVRS245 is spot on and good to here from an owner of a mapped car, they can be totally reliable, just find a knowledgeable and well respected specialist that does maps and you are good to go. 

I used AmD in Grays, Essex and have been going there for more than 20 years as have some other members on Briskoda and have never read on here of anyone having a problem with their maps. They tend to ere on the side of caution but the car is a dream to drive and has so much performance it can embarrass cars which are twice the price. Absolutely no regrets and more economical now than when it was standard. You can always detune it in winter as I do by putting 95 octane in it because the mapping automatically alters to suit the fuel grade used.

[newbie69]

On 11/12/2019 at 01:00, RGKTSi said:

Swings and roundabouts comparing the 280 and 272.

272 May have GPF where as the 280 defiantly does not.

DQ250 not as quick reacting as the 7 speed in the 272 which has a higher ratio too help for better cruising. So that is where the slightly lower 0 - 60 time comes from.

Now the disadvantage over the 280. Non valved exhaust and only one outlet either inside not the trim where as the 280 has 2 either side.

Also the 272 engine runs 4 injectors where as the 280 runs eight. Big advantage if you go down the mapping route.

When my warranty runs out in March next year I am going stage 2 map with a few ancillary parts, airbox, other less restrictive pipework and turbo muffler delete. Will probably change the downpipe with a less restrictive cat. All this will see it produce 400bhp, low 4's 0 - 60. 

Will also have map installed on the DSG gearbox.

As a 272 owner, I was worried (on paper / before picking the car up) about the lack of the valved exhaust and the deletion of the port injection. 1 year later I can confidently state those thoughts are no more.  I forgot all about the valved exhaust when I drove a 280 at the dealer's one day and realized is that all that the fuss is about? I mean even a 280 is not a particularly sporty sounding or loud car either, it's just not engineered in the car as much as in a R/S3 where you can more clearly tell the difference between on/off valve.

The injection deletion is more of a long-term worry. I'd need to keep the car for at least 5 years/80.000km to start worrying about carbon build-up and that's more than  what I have ever kept a car for anyway.

Tuning wise the 4 extra injectors are realistically irrelevant unless you go bonkers with big turbo setups and extensive modifications, at which point the addition of a fueling system (as some US cars have done that never had MPI from factory) is a minor fraction of the total cost you've invested on the car. You don't need extra fueling for at least stage 2+ states, meaning even mild hybrid turbos around the 450bhp mark.

On the other hand, having lived with the VC for a year I would have a hard time going back to an analog cockpit, especially one as dull as the Superb's (sorry). And the 7speed is just so smooth and economical that it seems to have cancelled out the extra 200kg compared to my previous Golf GTI with the same engine but a DSG6 instead, it's unbelievable but I'm seeing same or slightly better figures on anything other than start stop traffic. 

[Nick_H]

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

As a 272 owner, I was worried (on paper / before picking the car up) about the lack of the valved exhaust and the deletion of the port injection. 1 year later I can confidently state those thoughts are no more.  I forgot all about the valved exhaust when I drove a 280 at the dealer's one day and realized is that all that the fuss is about? I mean even a 280 is not a particularly sporty sounding or loud car either, it's just not engineered in the car as much as in a R/S3 where you can more clearly tell the difference between on/off valve.

The injection deletion is more of a long-term worry. I'd need to keep the car for at least 5 years/80.000km to start worrying about carbon build-up and that's more than  what I have ever kept a car for anyway.

Tuning wise the 4 extra injectors are realistically irrelevant unless you go bonkers with big turbo setups and extensive modifications, at which point the addition of a fueling system (as some US cars have done that never had MPI from factory) is a minor fraction of the total cost you've invested on the car. You don't need extra fueling for at least stage 2+ states, meaning even mild hybrid turbos around the 450bhp mark.

On the other hand, having lived with the VC for a year I would have a hard time going back to an analog cockpit, especially one as dull as the Superb's (sorry). And the 7speed is just so smooth and economical that it seems to have cancelled out the extra 200kg compared to my previous Golf GTI with the same engine but a DSG6 instead, it's unbelievable but I'm seeing same or slightly better figures on anything other than start stop traffic. 

 

hey this is the 280 thread not the inferior 272 thread !!! 😆

[facet edge]

3 hours ago, newbie69 said:

The injection deletion is more of a long-term worry. I'd need to keep the car for at least 5 years/80.000km to start worrying about carbon build-up and that's more than  what I have ever kept a car for anyway.

It is said that using premium fuel will help with carbon build up as is has additives that stop it.

[newbie69]

Just now, facet edge said:

It is said that using premium fuel will help with carbon build up as is has additives that stop it.

Frankly, I've seen intake valves of TSI engines that were exclusively run on 98 after 80-100k km's and there doesn't seem to be a particularly big difference in the amount of carbon compared to others that were running lesser fuels so I would not say it is a major factor here. Start/stop traffic and short journeys is what affects how much of an issue it will be in the long term. Similarly, cars with greater mileage but that was done in much shorter time due to long trips don't seem to suffer as much.

But as I said, it is fairly irrelevant for me. If I manage to stick with this car long enough to actually experience this issue it will be quite an accomplishment and by that time it will be already out of warranty so a clean-up would not be such a problem If I was keeping it for longer.

[Nick_H]

4 hours ago, newbie69 said:

As a 272 owner, I was worried (on paper / before picking the car up) about the lack of the valved exhaust and the deletion of the port injection. 1 year later I can confidently state those thoughts are no more.  I forgot all about the valved exhaust when I drove a 280 at the dealer's one day and realized is that all that the fuss is about? I mean even a 280 is not a particularly sporty sounding or loud car either, it's just not engineered in the car as much as in a R/S3 where you can more clearly tell the difference between on/off valve.

The injection deletion is more of a long-term worry. I'd need to keep the car for at least 5 years/80.000km to start worrying about carbon build-up and that's more than  what I have ever kept a car for anyway.

Tuning wise the 4 extra injectors are realistically irrelevant unless you go bonkers with big turbo setups and extensive modifications, at which point the addition of a fueling system (as some US cars have done that never had MPI from factory) is a minor fraction of the total cost you've invested on the car. You don't need extra fueling for at least stage 2+ states, meaning even mild hybrid turbos around the 450bhp mark.

On the other hand, having lived with the VC for a year I would have a hard time going back to an analog cockpit, especially one as dull as the Superb's (sorry). And the 7speed is just so smooth and economical that it seems to have cancelled out the extra 200kg compared to my previous Golf GTI with the same engine but a DSG6 instead, it's unbelievable but I'm seeing same or slightly better figures on anything other than start stop traffic. 

 

I would love to hear my exhaust compared to a 272 to actually hear if the the flaps make any difference at all..... I agree with what you say they hardly seem to make any difference to the sound... Is that their primary purpose or is it to allow gas to escape faster when pressing on the loud ( or not so ) pedal ?

[penguin17]

3 hours ago, Nick_H said:

 

I would love to hear my exhaust compared to a 272 to actually hear if the the flaps make any difference at all..... I agree with what you say they hardly seem to make any difference to the sound... Is that their primary purpose or is it to allow gas to escape faster when pressing on the loud ( or not so ) pedal ?

The 280 takes Q car to the next level, it's exhaust note is so feeble discreet that I can hear more noise from the front of the car than I can the rear.  I suppose it all fits with the character of the car...but a little bit of drama/pops/cackles wouldn't go amiss, when S mode is selected and the car is running over 3k+ revs.  The Nissan Leaf sounds like a HEMI V8 in comparison 😁

 

My current 4 cyl. favourite is the i30N.  Sounds like an old group B rally car. 

[newbie69]

5 hours ago, Nick_H said:

 

I would love to hear my exhaust compared to a 272 to actually hear if the the flaps make any difference at all..... I agree with what you say they hardly seem to make any difference to the sound... Is that their primary purpose or is it to allow gas to escape faster when pressing on the loud ( or not so ) pedal ?

The only real limitation on the exhaust gases is at the downpipe not the mufflers so valves do not affect gas flow or performance at all.

 

 

1 hour ago, penguin17 said:

The 280 takes Q car to the next level, it's exhaust note is so feeble discreet that I can hear more noise from the front of the car than I can the rear.  I suppose it all fits with the character of the car...but a little bit of drama/pops/cackles wouldn't go amiss, when S mode is selected and the car is running over 3k+ revs.  The Nissan Leaf sounds like a HEMI V8 in comparison 😁

 

My current 4 cyl. favourite is the i30N.  Sounds like an old group B rally car. 

It's all about the resonator and muffler really. With an aftermarket cat-back and a tune with pops and crackles (optional), you could get the Superb to sound the same way. The Clubsport for example, although same engine and downpipe, had from factory a different muffler than the standard GTI and R and on lift-off I would occasionally hear pops and bangs after the exhaust had got hot enough. As I said, the Superb was deliberately not engineered with those features and in my opinion rightfully so. Doesn't make sense to work on having an angry exhaust note if it's not a true sports version which even the Sportline isn't (apart from the looks).

Edited 12 December, 2019 by newbie69

[Prykey]

My 2019 Mustang GT has 4 exhaust modes all set by flaps in the tail pipes, Quiet (can be set by the time of day for start up), Normal, Sport or Track 😁👍.

Edited 15 December, 2019 by Prykey

[RGKTSi]

12 hours ago, newbie69 said:

As a 272 owner, I was worried (on paper / before picking the car up) about the lack of the valved exhaust and the deletion of the port injection. 1 year later I can confidently state those thoughts are no more.  I forgot all about the valved exhaust when I drove a 280 at the dealer's one day and realized is that all that the fuss is about? I mean even a 280 is not a particularly sporty sounding or loud car either, it's just not engineered in the car as much as in a R/S3 where you can more clearly tell the difference between on/off valve.

The injection deletion is more of a long-term worry. I'd need to keep the car for at least 5 years/80.000km to start worrying about carbon build-up and that's more than  what I have ever kept a car for anyway.

Tuning wise the 4 extra injectors are realistically irrelevant unless you go bonkers with big turbo setups and extensive modifications, at which point the addition of a fueling system (as some US cars have done that never had MPI from factory) is a minor fraction of the total cost you've invested on the car. You don't need extra fueling for at least stage 2+ states, meaning even mild hybrid turbos around the 450bhp mark.

On the other hand, having lived with the VC for a year I would have a hard time going back to an analog cockpit, especially one as dull as the Superb's (sorry). And the 7speed is just so smooth and economical that it seems to have cancelled out the extra 200kg compared to my previous Golf GTI with the same engine but a DSG6 instead, it's unbelievable but I'm seeing same or slightly better figures on anything other than start stop traffic. 

The flaps mean it is quiet at slower speeds and they open up at speed. Probably doesn't make that much difference but I like them clicking away when I start on a cold morning. Definitely quieter when on idle with flaps closed.

Having the additional set of injectors will help in keeping the intake cleaner. But the main advantage is mapping though as we know. Stage 2 and 400bhp will be advantageous.

When I tried the 7 speed DSG box in a Golf R 7.5 it was no quicker changing than the DQ250 6 speed in the 280. They are just as smooth as each other.

It's additional 7th gear helps with cruising is the only advantage that I can see. 

Analog clocks, don't really have an opinion. If I am honest they both look boring compared to my wife's Type R FK8. Nothing like putting it into R mode and it all going red😉

[newbie69]

8 hours ago, RGKTSi said:

The flaps mean it is quiet at slower speeds and they open up at speed. Probably doesn't make that much difference but I like them clicking away when I start on a cold morning. Definitely quieter when on idle with flaps closed.

Having the additional set of injectors will help in keeping the intake cleaner. But the main advantage is mapping though as we know. Stage 2 and 400bhp will be advantageous.

When I tried the 7 speed DSG box in a Golf R 7.5 it was no quicker changing than the DQ250 6 speed in the 280. They are just as smooth as each other.

It's additional 7th gear helps with cruising is the only advantage that I can see. 

Analog clocks, don't really have an opinion. If I am honest they both look boring compared to my wife's Type R FK8. Nothing like putting it into R mode and it all going red😉

It's the opposite really about the injectors. The main advantage is a cleaner valve state (long term). There is no benefit for the typical stage 1 and stage 2 and even mild hybrid turbos.  400bhp and some more over that, have been achieved long ago on direct injection only 2.0 TSIs in the US so it's not a limitation unless you know you're buying the car with the intention of taking it to 500+ bhp. But I seriously doubt that's the average 272/280 buyer. In I've only seen 2 mk3 Superbs running such setups as opposed to hundreds of R's and GTI's on the same engine.

I changed to the new DSG7 after 2.5 years of driving the DSG6 and immediately noticed that it's changing smoother, completely imperceptible, but that's not to say I ever had an issue with either rough or slow changes on the DSG6, not at all. My only gripe with that box was during cruising, I always found the 6th gear un-necessarily short if you were to keep a constant 80mph (130km/h) on the highway. Not so much of an issue on a GTI as it's supposed to be angrier and noisier anyway, but in the Superb I appreciate a quieter (and more economical) trip every time I need to cover highway km's. There's also the shorter gearing from 1st to 3rd gear which helps low speed acceleration (hence the marginally lower 0-100 times) but I wouldn't worry over a couple of tenths. For me it's all about the extra gear.

 

[Boxerdog1]

So apart from deliberations on Flaps , Multipoint Injection and GPF's  (as an outgoing owner of one of the last 280's with a very low mileage) ... just saying goodbye having sold my Moon White Beast which has gone to a very good home and has enabled me to pursue my 'Off the Grid' adventures in a 6 month old VW California Ocean T6 . Been a blast with the 280 and with you lovely folk   

[penguin17]

4 hours ago, Boxerdog1 said:

So apart from deliberations on Flaps , Multipoint Injection and GPF's  (as an outgoing owner of one of the last 280's with a very low mileage) ... just saying goodbye having sold my Moon White Beast which has gone to a very good home and has enabled me to pursue my 'Off the Grid' adventures in a 6 month old VW California Ocean T6 . Been a blast with the 280 and with you lovely folk   

Enjoy! Sorry to see you’ve sold the 280 but hopefully you’ll still stop by now and again 👍🏻

[z1ts]

On 14/12/2019 at 18:11, Boxerdog1 said:

a 6 month old VW California Ocean T6

Drooooooool...............

 

Jealousy has kicked in here big style..............