The 280PS Thread

[Boxerdog1]

On 16/12/2019 at 08:28, z1ts said:

Drooooooool...............

 

Jealousy has kicked in here big style..............

Drove it back 340 odd miles yesterday to Cornwall ...... absolutely love it  😊

[Roscio]

On 13/12/2019 at 10:15, newbie69 said:

400bhp and some more over that, have been achieved long ago on direct injection only 2.0 TSIs in the US so it's not a limitation unless you know you're buying the car with the intention of taking it to 500+ bhp. But I seriously doubt that's the average 272/280 buyer. In I've only seen 2 mk3 Superbs running such setups as opposed to hundreds of R's and GTI's on the same engine.

Ok, maybe you'll see the third 500+ hp Superb...

Going from stage 1 direct to stage 3, i've already bought the main components (downpipe, intercooler, air intake system, TTE535, lpfp, hpfp and other stuff), BUT i dont know what to do with injection. For now my tuner says we'll try with the original injection system, maybe we che achieve 470-480 hp, then if i'm not happy with it we can add the extra fueling system (with port injection).

Nobody knows for now if US kits for adding port injection on north american cars work on ours european TSIs. APR wrote me that they haven't tested yet this system on DNU engines.

Someone knows if there's already a european DNU engine with aftermarket port injection system working?

[penguin17]

3 hours ago, Roscio said:

Ok, maybe you'll see the third 500+ hp Superb...

Going from stage 1 direct to stage 3, i've already bought the main components (downpipe, intercooler, air intake system, TTE535, lpfp, hpfp and other stuff), BUT i dont know what to do with injection. For now my tuner says we'll try with the original injection system, maybe we che achieve 470-480 hp, then if i'm not happy with it we can add the extra fueling system (with port injection).

Nobody knows for now if US kits for adding port injection on north american cars work on ours european TSIs. APR wrote me that they haven't tested yet this system on DNU engines.

Someone knows if there's already a european DNU engine with aftermarket port injection system working?

REVO seem to think the stock injection/fuelling system is capable: 

 

https://www.onlyrevo.com/product-details/software/skoda/superb-mk3-2015-/244/stage-3

[newbie69]

12 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

REVO seem to think the stock injection/fuelling system is capable: 

 

https://www.onlyrevo.com/product-details/software/skoda/superb-mk3-2015-/244/stage-3

That's for the CJX (pre GPF) 2.0 TSI engines that comes with port injection, Roscio is running a DNU one.

[penguin17]

4 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

That's for the CJX (pre GPF) 2.0 TSI engines that comes with port injection, Roscio is running a DNU one.

Ah apologies. Thanks for setting that straight 

 

EDIT: Ah in development with Revo 

 

https://www.onlyrevo.com/products-for-vehicle/skoda/superb-mk3-2015-&engineid=391

Edited 20 December, 2019 by penguin17

[newbie69]

  

3 hours ago, Roscio said:

Ok, maybe you'll see the third 500+ hp Superb...

Going from stage 1 direct to stage 3, i've already bought the main components (downpipe, intercooler, air intake system, TTE535, lpfp, hpfp and other stuff), BUT i dont know what to do with injection. For now my tuner says we'll try with the original injection system, maybe we che achieve 470-480 hp, then if i'm not happy with it we can add the extra fueling system (with port injection).

Nobody knows for now if US kits for adding port injection on north american cars work on ours european TSIs. APR wrote me that they haven't tested yet this system on DNU engines.

Someone knows if there's already a european DNU engine with aftermarket port injection system working?

Always interested to follow closely such projects. In fact I bought the 272 with a similar mindset (of going 500bhp) after I could not use (to my frustration) even 370bhp on the FWD GTI, let alone the motor's potential, but along the way I realized I just don't spend enough time engaging in performance activities anymore to justify the amount of time and money needed for this project even to the slightest degree. So it's probably going to stay Stage 1 unless I stick with the car for more than 3 years.

To your points, I think you are quite the pioneer with this engine at the moment, for anything over stage 1. To my knowledge, apart from very limited downpipe options (Milltek and Supersprint i think - which one did you go with actually?)  there are not even Stage 2 maps out there yet, let alone Stage 3 development. And sure, they are still the same gen3 engines hardware wise that should see similar numbers as the CJX units, but the new DNU motors have different coding/maps/software that need to be "cracked" from tuners first, in order to offer the full range of tuning options as the pre GPF cars. And I haven't seen that yet.

If there's such a car it most definitely won't be a Superb but a Golf R or S3 simply because of their higher numbers and "tuning tendency" among owners so you might want to join international MQB groups and ask around, there's one on FB for the 7.5R exclusively although that includes GPF and non-GPF DNU's (the Golf R got both variants I believe).

Personally, for my own driving scenarios, I was almost set on a LM440 turbocharger that tunes close to 450-460bhp without extra fueling needs or even hpfp's, and spools almost exactly as stock or at least quicker than the 500+ setups. Of-course you do sacrifice some top end performance compared to a bigger setup but it's a more simple solution that is optimal for daily use. It of-course depends on what you want to do with the extra power and how, so I'm not saying this is the solution for everyone, not at all. Tuning is all about personal needs and style anyway.

I definitely want to follow this closely though, and a separate thread would be best once you get the project going a bit. Who knows, maybe you can make me go back to my original plan for the car 

[shyVRS245]

Joining newbie69 in the 272 club in 8 days time (aka 280 lite club). Paid £23,840 which is a nice saving on the new price of £38,600 and it's just 9 months old with less than 5,000 miles on the clock with 2 free services chucked in. Probably only going stage 1 this time in February, that will be enough with the 4 wheel drive.

[Roscio]

6 hours ago, penguin17 said:

EDIT: Ah in development with Revo

But only about Stage 1  .. As @newbie69 said for now there are really few cars with same engine on stage 3.

 

In the meanwhile i got answer from CTS (us), they are sure their multi port injection upgrade will work on my DNUA engine. Here's the link:

https://www.ctsturbo.com/product/cts-turbo-mk7-vw-audi-ea888-gen-3-port-injection-kit/

 

5 hours ago, newbie69 said:

To your points, I think you are quite the pioneer with this engine at the moment, for anything over stage 1. To my knowledge, apart from very limited downpipe options (Milltek and Supersprint i think - which one did you go with actually?)  there are not even Stage 2 maps out there yet, let alone Stage 3 development.

Milltek downpipe with 200cell HJS sport cat. And OEM catback, because i really want to keep the car as quiet as possible. So there will be no "pops & bangs" map or other loud stuff. Stage 3 development will be custom made by my tuner, i know it will take long time to match all components and let those work properly all together.

I think best option is to start with a low power output, maybe 450-460 hp and 560-570 NM. I'll map the original DQ381 too, of course, but for now without reinforce it. It should manage up to 600 NM in this configuration.

6 hours ago, newbie69 said:

I definitely want to follow this closely though, and a separate thread would be best once you get the project going a bit.

of course i'll do! 

[KeteCantek]

6 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Joining newbie69 in the 272 club in 8 days time (aka 280 lite club). Paid £23,840 which is a nice saving on the new price of £38,600 and it's just 9 months old with less than 5,000 miles on the clock with 2 free services chucked in. Probably only going stage 1 this time in February, that will be enough with the 4 wheel drive.

Brilliant deal. What spec is it? 

Edited 20 December, 2019 by KeteCantek

[shyVRS245]

14 minutes ago, KeteCantek said:

Brilliant deal. What spec is it? 

Sportline Plus with no extras hence the good price, just been reduced from £24,500 I think.

[shyVRS245]

On 22/10/2019 at 21:50, KeteCantek said:

Probably the best ratios but just as likely Skoda tweaked the numbers because the 280 is quicker than the spec.  The 7th will give lower revs so will help economy. My 280 at 70mph sits at 2500rpm iirc. 

 

Enjoy it.

After my lengthy test drive in the 272 I can confirm in Normal mode it sits at 2,000rpm at the 70mph limit however put in Sport and it holds onto 6th instead of 7th and the revs rise accordingly. Gearing in top seems to equate to the 190 diesel.

Edited 21 December, 2019 by shyVRS245
WRONG WORD

[newbie69]

On 20/12/2019 at 16:32, shyVRS245 said:

Joining newbie69 in the 272 club in 8 days time (aka 280 lite club). Paid £23,840 which is a nice saving on the new price of £38,600 and it's just 9 months old with less than 5,000 miles on the clock with 2 free services chucked in. Probably only going stage 1 this time in February, that will be enough with the 4 wheel drive.

Finally Shy! I'm so glad you wised up and embraced the AWD superiority    Not that it wasn't obvious you were after it, with all that time you have been spending in this forum 

Stage 1/JB4 and pedal box and you'll be very much covered for all real life/daily scenarios. At stage 1 levels, It's only above 60-70mph that you start to notice the extra weight. In lower speeds, the ever-present instant kick no matter the road or conditions makes up for the increased inertia and is in fact more impressive than equally powerful FWD cars.

Welcome to the club and let us know of your impressions once you get it (and tune it).

[shyVRS245]

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

Finally Shy! I'm so glad you wised up and embraced the AWD superiority    Not that it wasn't obvious you were after it, with all that time you have been spending in this forum 

Stage 1/JB4 and pedal box and you'll be very much covered for all real life/daily scenarios. At stage 1 levels, It's only above 60-70mph that you start to notice the extra weight. In lower speeds, the ever-present instant kick no matter the road or conditions makes up for the increased inertia and is in fact more impressive than equally powerful FWD cars.

Welcome to the club and let us know of your impressions once you get it (and tune it).

I was loitering to pick you guys brains trying to decide 280 with 6 speed DSG or the later 2 cats up the exhaust 272 with the 7 speed DSG but this will be my first all wheel drive car and already seen ABT do 320bhp (4.7sec 0-60mph) stage 1 map for the 272 and 336bhp (4.6sec 0-60mph) stage 1 map for the 280. Made enquiries with my usual tuner as to what they can do. Even 320bhp will be enough as I get forever older and more cautious.

[penguin17]

32 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

I was loitering to pick you guys brains trying to decide 280 with 6 speed DSG or the later 2 cats up the exhaust 272 with the 7 speed DSG but this will be my first all wheel drive car and already seen ABT do 320bhp (4.7sec 0-60mph) stage 1 map for the 272 and 336bhp (4.6sec 0-60mph) stage 1 map for the 280. Made enquiries with my usual tuner as to what they can do. Even 320bhp will be enough as I get forever older and more cautious.

I thought most of the ‘big’ UK tuners make 350+ bhp on the 280? 

 

I notice today that Revo are also developing other subtle mods to the performance meters and VC’s so that the boost, kw gauges and such reflect the higher figures, post tuning rather than the stock parameters. 

[ColinD]

Emailed Revo about the DSG7 remap, I like some of the DSG6 features... Coming in 2020.

I'm trying to get rid of the tardy throttle, without just running it in sport mode, sport mode is ideal, just without the long holding. There is a bit of me that cares for wallet. I think a pedal box would do a lot of it. Still adapting to it myself, this being the first auto. I find myself either waiting for the change down, or being surprised by it as I've gone a little too far, or not quite far enough, quick enough. The odd time I've even triggered the kick down as I've got no change so pressed a bit more. Bizarrely around town is worst and TBH I put it in eco and that seems to make it less problematical. 

 

Now, for some reason the other night,  I looked on autotrader. There is a car I was going to have before the one I have. At the time it was 995 more than it's similar rivals... The salesman asked me the old what do you want to pay for it... well duh, so I said 26k, it has canton, dcc, sunroof and a few other bits.  There were a few kicking about in the 26's with less, so chance my hand. I of course didn't get a cordial reply. Shame I would've gone to 27500, not the 29 they were asking. Well the funny bit of me, it's still for sale. And for now less than the 26 I offered.

Two amusing things from that, I could easily of waited another 3 or 6 months, but then I would not of brought it anyway ( Big life changing event in the house for SWMBO ). Second amusing thing, crap what's mine now worth...

One small positive is, SWMBO, only wants me to drive her to and from hospital, having tried a few big 'comfort' e.g. merc, bmw, ubers... she much prefers the superb in comfort mode, much more comfortable.  Only draw back is, I have to run the multi-story gauntlet every other day... I don't like tight spaces

 Well the plan is keep it for 10yrs.
 

Going to try a pedal box first, then either take a punt on a stg 1 remap or a box. Might do a box till year 2/3.

Does a DSG remap change any flags like a ECU remap? 

[freelunch]

I'll bet if you get the PedalBox you will forget about the rest.

[newbie69]

21 hours ago, penguin17 said:

I thought most of the ‘big’ UK tuners make 350+ bhp on the 280? 

 

I notice today that Revo are also developing other subtle mods to the performance meters and VC’s so that the boost, kw gauges and such reflect the higher figures, post tuning rather than the stock parameters. 

They do, ABT is pointless really and I don't know what should anyone bother with them. They offer 50-60% of the usual gains at 3x price as they are providing some sort of limited warranty I think, but if you're worrying that much about something going wrong leave it be in my opinion. 360-370bhp on the 280 is safe and proven gains, no issue that would not show up at 330bhp will if you take it to the 360, in fact anything that might show up at stage 1 would have most probably do as stock too.

The VC as well as the older Performance Display on the 280 will already show a full remap's (higher) boost, it's only with the JB4 that you still see stock values as the ECU is not seeing any additional boost (due to the intercepting sensors), maybe it's some other features they're developing like real time AFR, ignition and EGT values that are usually only accessible via logging?

Edited 22 December, 2019 by newbie69

[newbie69]

21 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

I was loitering to pick you guys brains trying to decide 280 with 6 speed DSG or the later 2 cats up the exhaust 272 with the 7 speed DSG but this will be my first all wheel drive car and already seen ABT do 320bhp (4.7sec 0-60mph) stage 1 map for the 272 and 336bhp (4.6sec 0-60mph) stage 1 map for the 280. Made enquiries with my usual tuner as to what they can do. Even 320bhp will be enough as I get forever older and more cautious.

Yeap, I must be at around 330bhp (340max) with my GPF JB4 272 and it's practically faster than the majority of cars out there from a standstill to the NSL. It's those Autobahn blasts of say 120-220km/h that the acceleration stops becoming too impressive.

[penguin17]

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

Yeap, I must be at around 330bhp (340max) with my GPF JB4 272 and it's practically faster than the majority of cars out there from a standstill to the NSL. It's those Autobahn blasts of say 120-220km/h that the acceleration stops becoming too impressive.

Would you recommend the JB4? Are they truly a plug and play option or, do you need to make *some* optimisations via the data cable/laptop in order for it to be worthwhile? 

 

Oooh and in the Superb do you need to make any modifications to the stock hoses or plugs? (I believe you had to in older versions and/or cars (?)) 

Edited 22 December, 2019 by penguin17

[newbie69]

59 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

Would you recommend the JB4? Are they truly a plug and play option or, do you need to make *some* optimisations via the data cable/laptop in order for it to be worthwhile? 

 

Oooh and in the Superb do you need to make any modifications to the stock hoses or plugs? (I believe you had to in older versions and/or cars (?)) 

They definitely are. All preset maps just work out of the box and you merely choose whether you want a "safer" or a more aggressive map and you can basically forget it after doing a couple of logs and ensuring all is running as expected. At least that's what I did with my 272, haven't done a log or messed with settings after the first month really.

On the Clubsport where I was more worried about squeezing every last bhp out of it I worked with Map 6 which is a custom map where you enter your own values (together with George from BMS). Basically you try values in different scenarios and cranking it up bit by bit till you reach some ignition or fueling limitation. Retrospectively, I wouldn't say the time and effort I devoted on maxing out Map 6 was worth it. There were slight gains but unless you're racing or competing somewhere, you get 95% of the performance from the preset maps already. It's your choice really, but definitely not something you have to do when running a JB4.

No hoses/plugs mods needed on any of the gen3 2.0 TSIs (280 & 272) up to stage 2 I'd say. Some people switch to one step colder plugs when they're stage 2 or stage 2+ but not really a necessity. Hoses are more of a stage 3 requirement.

[YTT]

I've just put my Racechip XLR throttle tuner up for sale in the classifieds @ £75, if anyone's interested!

[penguin17]

7 hours ago, YTT said:

I've just put my Racechip XLR throttle tuner up for sale in the classifieds @ £75, if anyone's interested!

That's a good price!  I've had two XLR's and they've both proved faultless and excellent; really eliminating that deadspot and  making the car feel like it's been remapped! 

 

Someone should snap this up! 

Edited 24 December, 2019 by penguin17

[YTT]

6 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

That's a good price!  I've had two XLR's and they've both proved faultless and excellent; really eliminating that deadspot making the car feel like it's been remapped! 

 

Someone should snap this up! 

 

You'd think! It made a real difference to my Superb. So much so, that the missus wasn't so keen when she drove it. She said it made the car go like my old TTRS! I hadn't mounted it with the adjustment dial in an easy-to-get-at place, so I took it all out, intending to re-mount where she could 'turn it down' when she drove. I just never got round to refitting it.

[shyVRS245]

Pick this bad boy up tomorrow.

[shyVRS245]

Just booked the 272 in with AmD in Grays, Essex for Monday 3rd February 2020 so counting down until we see what sort of power they produce as standard and with a stage 1 remap. Will be running it exclusively on 99 octane Shell V-Power or Tesco Momentum.