Winter tyres

[Channel]

Will a change from 225/45/17 which is the standard fit, to somthing with a larger 225/50/17 affect the gearing and 4x4 system? even though it would be more comfortable.

[TheOctaviator]

That is for Approval - i.e when they leave the factory.

 

Once it has left the factory it is of no relevance whatsoever.

 

It isn't even an MOT failure to have tyres fitted with a lower speed rating than the maximum speed of the vehicle.

 

I have queried this with my insurers over the last 5 winters now, 3 different insurance companies, and they have all been perfectly happy with H-rated winter tyres on both an Octavia II and an Octavia III. I was quite specific on exactly what make, size and rating of tyres I was fitting on each occasion and as long as the size and load rating were approved by the manufacturer they weren't bothered that they were H-rated.

 

Most winter tyres are H-rated - by your logic almost everyone who buys winter tyres is breaking the law.

If you search for winter tyres on the Michelin site, it brings up the various tyres which have been homologated for your vehicle. I believe there's a similar rating for replacement wheels as well, in Germany. My 2014 vRS is run on 17" winter alloys made by Rial wearing Michelin Alpin 5 205/50 R17 93H, which are homologated for that car.

[glosrich]

Yep we are slapdash in the UK about not using only homologated wheels & tyres on our cars. Europe especially Germany is very strict on this.

Wonder when insurance companies will start rejecting claims because of non standard wheels and tyres?

[GAFF]

i bought a set of 4 steels in the Skoda approved size and offset with Michelin TS850 tyres on from Germany including shipping for less than the tyres alone cost in the UK! They turned up in 3 working days as well!

What website did you use?

With the cost of 19in tires it might be a good cost option to remove them during the winter.

[domhnall]

My tyres, oponeo, black circles most of them offer packages. I've used mytyres several times, delivered within a few days. Always good prices and service excellent

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[JD52]

Yep we are slapdash in the UK about not using only homologated wheels & tyres on our cars. Europe especially Germany is very strict on this.

Wonder when insurance companies will start rejecting claims because of non standard wheels and tyres?

 

They've been rejecting claims for many years. We should remember that if your car is not fitted with the correct speed rated tyres the insurance companies CAN reject your claim.

 

Of course, if you have a documented discussion with them where they have approved your winter tyres or they have been informed of a modification to the original specification parts then they will find it difficult to reject the claim.

 

Good luck

[andyvee]

They've been rejecting claims for many years. We should remember that if your car is not fitted with the correct speed rated tyres the insurance companies CAN reject your claim.

Of course, if you have a documented discussion with them where they have approved your winter tyres or they have been informed of a modification to the original specification parts then they will find it difficult to reject the claim.

Good luck

Do you have evidence to back this up?

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[JD52]

Mostly anecdotal. The first time I heard about this was when a guy with a Ford Capri hit a lamppost and his claim was refused as he had lower rated tyres. The accident happened at 40MPH so his tyres made no difference what so ever!

 

In reality, if your car is not to manufacturers specification and the insurance company has not been informed then they are within their legal rights to refuse a claim. It may not be morally correct but that makes little difference these days.

[M12MKD]

 It may not be morally correct but that makes little difference these days.

 

I'm fairly sure that is not a word in the Insurance dictionary! Morally.

 

I've heard that if you say that word to them on the phone, they shut down and go in to error mode!

[flybynite]

I think the definitive list is what is written on the Certificate of Conformity for the car as that is how the car is described for type-approval purposes. For mine it is interesting that the smaller sizes (205 16" and 17") are listed for winter tyres and a lower speed category (V) where the 225 17" and 18" are listed as W and Y respectively.

 

if you have that category or above you will be as certain as you can be no-one will argue about your tyres

[andyvee]

Mostly anecdotal. The first time I heard about this was when a guy with a Ford Capri hit a lamppost and his claim was refused as he had lower rated tyres. The accident happened at 40MPH so his tyres made no difference what so ever!

In reality, if your car is not to manufacturers specification and the insurance company has not been informed then they are within their legal rights to refuse a claim. It may not be morally correct but that makes little difference these days.

Seeing it is not a MoT failure or a contravention of the Construction & Use regs as long as your tyres are rated to the maximum legal speed in the country you are in then they cannot refuse the claim, unless of course the wheels are non standard. By your argument, if I don't use the OEM brake pads, shock absorbers, clutch or any other wear and tear item then any claim could be rejected.

I am sure there was more to it than just the speed rating on the tyres.

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[andyvee]

I think the definitive list is what is written on the Certificate of Conformity for the car as that is how the car is described for type-approval purposes. For mine it is interesting that the smaller sizes (205 16" and 17") are listed for winter tyres and a lower speed category (V) where the 225 17" and 18" are listed as W and Y respectively.

if you have that category or above you will be as certain as you can be no-one will argue about your tyres

Type approval has no relevance once the car has left the factory. V rated winter tyres are few and far between, most are H rated.

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[andyvee]

There is plenty of advice available from both the AA and the ABI, I believe what they say rather than anecdotal down the pub or speculation on forums.

At the end of the day, consulting and informing your insurance company is the only way to go.

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[flybynite]

Type approval has no relevance once the car has left the factory. V rated winter tyres are few and far between, most are H rated.

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I beg to differ on that, Contravention of the Type approval for the vehicle is what you would be prosecuted for under Sec 40A of the Road Traffic Act 1988.(amongst others) People are being done under this for "stretching" tyres

 

Reference to it is more prevalent on modifications of larger vehicles for change of use (which is my experience of this) but Type Approval is very much in force throughout the life of the vehicle.

 

Just looking now on some of the web sites 205/50/17 in my favourite flavour of winter rubber (Continental TS850p) is available in both H and V and they are the same price (at the moment) so IMHO why not go for the V

 

Each to their own in what they fit but my take on things is that if you stick to what is listed for that car then you have done the best you can. God forbid the worst happened and the car skidded and killed someone, fault or not, your tyres would be held up to the highest scrutiny. I would think that to say your insurance was happy would not be much of a defence, just as the fact that it passes an MOT will not absolve you from prosecution for an unsafe car.

 

I am not saying who is right or wrong, just that if you deviate from what is written for that car you need to think very hard

[andyvee]

Stretching tyres is irrelevant as well to this discussion as you have fitted a non approved rim size.

In terms of speed rating of tyres, which is what the discussion is about, both the AA and the ABI both state that the fitting of a lower speed rating of winter tyres is perfectly acceptable and not illegal, as long as you are still running a manufacturer approved rim size. Obviously you know more than the AA and the ABI.

The only stipulation in the Construction and Use regs (The Road Vehicles Construction and Use Regulations 24 through to 27 deals specifically with

tyres) in relation to speed ratings is that for a passenger vehicle they are rated at a minimum of 70mph, the NSL.

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[andyvee]

If you fit winter or all-season tyres in place of your standard 'summer' tyres there should be no need to tell your insurer – even though the speed index might be lower.

 

The lower speed index is still likely to exceed all national speed limits by a considerable margin – with the exception of some German autobahns – and is not checked as part of the passenger car MOT test.

 

If you follow the standard European practice of keeping two sets of wheels, one with winter tyres and one with summer tyres, then you shouldn't need to tell your insurer as long as the winter tyres are fitted to wheels of the correct specification.

 

'Correct specification' means that the wheel size – diameter, width and offset – conforms to the vehicle manufacturer's specifications.

Check the handbook for details of wheel/tyre sizes suitable for your car and refer to the car manufacturer or dealer for further advice.

 

That is from the AA

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-in-the-uk.html

[andyvee]

Are we allowed to know the German contact for the wheels?

I got mine from here

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/reifenportal

 

but they don't seem to be listing them anymore, it was 2 years ago.

 

Plenty of sellers on ebay from Germany, I contacted them directly after finding them on ebay

[flybynite]

As I said before I am not trying to get into who or what is right I am just saying what I do and why and people can make their own choice. If it gets people thinking then all the better even if they end up doing what they were going to do anyway.

 

 

This is the section from the Certificate of Conformity for my car. You can see it shows wheel size, offset, tyre size AND speed rating. 

 

Personally if it is written on this document I will follow it unless I apply for a change (and having done that a few times it is a bit of a pain) other cars may not have this specified, other cars may have H rated tyres on the list. The vRS will obviously have 19" wheels on it, mine does not. I do see "stretching" as relevant as the way I see it any deviation from this is a deviation, whether it be wheel size offset or tyre rating.

 

It may not bother most people but personally I chose to try to stay within what this says. Like I said if the worst happened I would feel confident that no-one could point fingers at tyres (or anything) if it is on this list.

[Hurdy]

Just to add to this.

To avoid any complications I simply went down to my local dealer and said.....

"I want some winter alloys and tyres for the car. What do you recommend for it?"

I ended up with brand new 17" alloys and a full set of H rated winter premium tyres at 225/45/17 94H.

When I questioned him on load and speed rating he simply said. "You have purchased them from your dealer and they are the recommended specification for your car"

I left it at that. Price came in at £658 for brand new wheels AND tyres combined.

[flybynite]

Just to add to this.

To avoid any complications I simply went down to my local dealer and said.....

"I want some winter alloys and tyres for the car. What do you recommend for it?"

I ended up with brand new 17" alloys and a full set of H rated winter premium tyres at 225/45/17 94H.

When I questioned him on load and speed rating he simply said. "You have purchased them from your dealer and they are the recommended specification for your car"

 

And he may very well be right !!. I am not saying that H-rated tyres are wrong, never did. What I am saying is they do not form the min spec on MY car as it stands. What is written on the Certificate of Conformity is what forms part of the type-approval for the vehicle. It is what forms the "standard" that you could be accused of modifying the car from. I do not read anywhere that you have to conform to the wheel size but can disregard the speed rating if it is there. I believe it is also in addition to the "minimum" requirement to have a speed rating that exceeds the speed limit

 

Some others I found.

 

This Porsche has H rated tyres approved for some smaller (winter) sizes

 

This MG does not have speed rating specified at all, so if you have one of them....Happy Days!

 

What is written on my certificate ties in with the reply back from Skoda in post #10 but is slightly different. Others may be different again and have H ratings. For ME on MY particular car summers are 225/40 18Y winters are 205/50 17V. I don't think about it too much I just stick to those sizes.

 

Let me turn it around, if anyone knows of where it is written that the specifications on the certificate of conformity (and those supplied by Skoda ~10 above) do not apply, I would love to know as it would make life easier for me.

 

And finally don't shoot the messenger, this is what I believe and I am asking a genuine question here.

Edited 12 September, 2015 by flybynite

[flybynite]

May be able to put this bit of one to bed

 

Download the wheels and tyres section of the erWin manuals in the sticky at the top. Look at section 14 "wheel-tyre combination" There are different minimums for each model

 

Mine is as I thought no H rated tyres in the list, this list matches (almost) what is written on my Certificate of Conformity. However if you have the 1.6 TDI it looks like you are fine with H in most sizes. It is dependant on your specific model. 

 

There is a paragraph about fitting of winter tyres however this manual is not a UK manual (which says something different) and there is a caveat that says "Also observe the national legislation" As I don't know where this manual comes from I would say check the information locally.

 

I think if you use what is on the car from the factory there is no problem. If you change to something else you need to look at it in a little depth. For me I will use the tyres on the specific list for my car. If that list includes H rated tyres I WILL use them. if it does not I wont. 

Edited 12 September, 2015 by flybynite

[Cybermansrevenge]

I left it at that. Price came in at £658 for brand new wheels AND tyres combined.

That doesn't seem to bad a price for alloys and 17" wheels, what alloys and tyres did you get? Any chance of pics and which dealership?

[seve88]

how do you get a certificate of conformity  or where can you see the information on it

always thought you only got this with a car you had imported

 

just bought 4 Michelin crossclimate tyres from Costco for my winter wheels  v rated and xl.

original alloys & tyres on the car  are not extra load

 

wonder what an insurance company would think about this

in my eyes it's safer, but you never know how these people think,

personally i think they look at every claim and then will  try to avoid paying out if possible    

 

too late though, I aint taking the tyres back and i'm keen to give the cross climate a try. 

[Hurdy]

That doesn't seem to bad a price for alloys and 17" wheels, what alloys and tyres did you get? Any chance of pics and which dealership?

They were Leon 5 spokes for my Seat Leon FR184. The tyres are Kumho KW27's.

They are still with the dealer and will be fitted first week in October.

Bought at my local JCT600 dealer in Sheffield.

Edited 12 September, 2015 by Hurdy

[flybynite]

how do you get a certificate of conformity  or where can you see the information on it

always thought you only got this with a car you had imported

 

just bought 4 Michelin crossclimate tyres from Costco for my winter wheels  v rated and xl.

original alloys & tyres on the car  are not extra load

 

wonder what an insurance company would think about this

in my eyes it's safer, but you never know how these people think,

personally i think they look at every claim and then will  try to avoid paying out if possible    

 

too late though, I aint taking the tyres back and i'm keen to give the cross climate a try. 

 

Yes you tend to get a CofC when you import as you have to have it to register. Every car sold in Europe should have one in the system though. The dealership should be able to get one as they have to issue them with special use cars as well. It is not the only way to get the information but I find it is an easy way to get the spec for your car.

 

You should just be able to get the same information from the dealer when they type your reg or chassis number in the parts system. A bit like the page from the erWin manual in the thread sticky. You can always just contact Skoda CS as Channel did in #10 and they should give you the tyres for the car. However I think that reply was a bit confused as I think the 225 Y rated tyres referred to the summer ones. I would be clarifying that response

 

Even the AA/ABI info that was alluded to earlier does have a caveat that the tyre "conforms to the vehicle manufacturer's specification"

 

My point is Skoda do specify a minimum speed rating for both winter and summer tyres so IMHO you maybe should think it through before deviating from it. 

 

I cannot see that putting a better tyre on could be faulted just as I cannot see a problem putting V rated tyres on when H rated is specified. I understand these to be a minimum. Many winter tyres are often XL as standard.

Edited 12 September, 2015 by flybynite