My understanding of how it works, from what I've read, is that the software on the car had a "defeat device" which is designed to track the parameters of the federal test procedure, recognise it is under test conditions, and cause the emission control system to underperform and therefore appear to have lower emissions.

If you were to simply rev to, say, 2000 for any length of time it would always be clean because you wouldn't know there was less power until you applied a load at which point it would 'go dirty' for performance.

I imagine a 'rolling road' would be another matter altogether........I'm surprised if they don't actually do the compliance testing dynamically because it would be fairly simple to fake a good result otherwise.

Edited 20 September, 201510 yr by Ryeman

Saw this link on worldcarfans a day or two ago.

 

http://www.worldcarfans.com/115091999207/vw-audi-facing-up-to-18-billion-fine-after-getting

 

Car companies designing vehicles to give the best test results and get in a lower CO2, or noise or another key category has been going on for decades.

 

The argument has to be the test has to be real world.

 

The truth appears to be that, VW-Audi particularly, give good results in the lab and rubbish on the road.  

 

When you are out on the cold road rather than in the warm lab some of these systems did not work that well.

 

The particularly health harmful Nitrogen Oxides that particularly VAG diesel, which afre not usually fitted with SCR / AD Blu system to reduce NO must be fitted, from new and retrospectively for all cars less than 6 years old perhaps, to bring the NO to the levels VW-Audi have said they perform at.

 

The $18B fine I expect will be reduced perhaps if they do this.

 

Some woulds like to see the same in the EU, certainly only SCR fitted diesels should be allowed to emission areas that will be set up in the big European cities over the next 5 years.  The cost is not massive ie 200/300 $/Euros.

 

The Ad Blue is cheap, it is basically only wee, and those of us who are use to p*ssing on diesels will now see/smell diesel p*ssing on themselves.   

In the Nitrogen Tyre thread i thought you said you knew about science, then you go talking P155 !

'honour degree in science specialising in thermodynamic'.

 

Reminds me of the joke with the man chatting up the beautiful woman on the plane and her asking him about various animals feces.

When he knew nothing about sh!t, she said to him, 'and you think i am going to listen to anything you have to say!'

The 18 billion is by multiplying all the cars sold by $US 35K it's a fictional figure.

In the Nitrogen Tyre thread i thought you said you knew about science, then you go talking P155 !

'honour degree in science specialising in thermodynamic'.

 

Reminds me of the joke with the man chatting up the beautiful woman on the plane and her asking him about various animals feces.

When he knew nothing about ****, she said to him, 'and you think i am going to listen to anything you have to say!'

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid

 

Diesel exhaust fluid (DEF), commonly referred to as AdBlue in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand, and standardised as ISO 22241 is an aqueous urea solution made with 32.5% high-purity urea (AUS 32) and 67.5% deionized water.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea

 

Urea or carbamide is an organic compound with the chemical formula CO(NH₂)₂. The molecule has two —NH₂ groups joined by a carbonyl (C=O) functional group.

Urea serves an important role in the metabolism of nitrogen-containing compounds by animals and is the main nitrogen-containing substance in the urine of mammals.

 

 

Tartan and Tweed use urea/urine in their production, if you did a tour of the works they would ask you to wee in thier tanks for use in the production process.  Good recycling as with diesel use of urea. 

We know all that, and Adblue has been discussed in the recent many posts in this forum.

 

So that was then and this is now and as much as history is lovely,

no P!55 is in Adblue, unlike in this thread.

 

Well there must be, because all the Water (H20) in the world has always been in the world,

so what goes in comes out and goes around.

(I have Patent Pending on Freeze Dried Water and P!55 & it might interest Volkswagen and the next big Environmental / Green product.)

 

I do not put water in my whisky because fish have sex in the water.

We know all that, and Adblue has been discussed in the recent many posts in this forum.

 

So that was then and this is now and as much as history is lovely,

no P!55 is in Adblue, unlike in this thread.

 

Well there must be, because all the Water (H20) in the world has always been in the world,

so what goes in comes out and goes around.

(I have Patent Pending on Freeze Dried Water and P!55 & it might interest Volkswagen and the next big Environmental / Green product.)

 

I do not put water in my whisky because fish have sex in the water.

 

And it has passed through a dinosaur at least 4 times.

 

Top tip "use the distilled water from your condensor tumble dryer with your antifreeze concentrate to get the right gycol/water mix".

 

Not even branch water in your whisky or ice (made from distilled water)?

 

 

The issue should be the hundreds of thousands of premature death from NO rather than a massive German corporate being fined.

 

"Sometimes, all I need is the air that I breath".

It must be interesting right now at Volkswagen Group HQ & various board meetings., and Media Consultancies.

 

Currently, '"VW would not comment".

VW are assisting with further investigations etc etc

 

So how are Shares in the Volkswagen Group doing right now on the World Market?

I do not suppose the CEO of VW USA needs to stock up on soap on a rope.

 

It is maybe wrong to talk about the former VW USA CEO Stefan Jacoby that left in 2010 and went to Volvo as head there, 

then went more recently to GM in a Senior Position.

http://autoblog.com/2013/08/02/volvo-ceo-stefan-jacoby-to-lead-gm-international

 He must have been signing off on the VW USA Vehicles that are being Recalled now.

(Is a CEO Scorned more dangerous than a Woman Scorned?)

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-19696997

http://motorauthority.com/news/1079933_volvo-appoints-new-ceo

God only knows why manufacturers are still rolling out diesels, they must have known for years that they cause pollution and health problems, the sooner they are banned the better.

God only knows why manufacturers are still rolling out diesels, they must have known for years that they cause pollution and health problems, the sooner they are banned the better.

 

If not banned at least retrofitted with the SCR equipment but the soot would still be a problem and it is affecting the world ice sheets ie Greenland etc which is adding to the climate change more than CO2 (plant food).

 

http://wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-ceo-apologizes-after-epa-accusations-1442754877

http://wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-ceo-apologizes-after-epa-accusations-1442754877

 

 

Same should happen here in te EU.

 

Stop selling these diesel engines until SCR is fitted to them and reduce the NO lethal pollution by a factor of ten (down to petrol car levels).

God only knows why manufacturers are still rolling out diesels, they must have known for years that they cause pollution and health problems, the sooner they are banned the better.

 

So that would also mean pretty much every commercial vehicle on the road would be banned - including vans, lorries, buses, coaches and a lot of trains...   not sure you really mean that do you...   you probably wouldn't survive the modern world without them   ;-)

 

Just sayin...

Not to mention all the shipping which transports all the petrol (and diesel) cars across the seas. Imagine running those on petrol. You'd soon be paying loads more for your petrol, and for your car to put it in.

In the big picture, diesel cars contribute very little to pollution when compared to the "BIG" polluters.

So what is worse...   the 'increased likelihood of respiratory problems' of NO and Particulates, or the carcinogenic effects of the higher and differing types of poly-aromatic hydrocarbons in petrol as well as the increased CO2 emissions?

 

It's all a balance isn't it - everything is bad for you at the right levels and concentrations - we just need to manage exposure.

Not to mention all the shipping which transports all the petrol (and diesel) cars across the seas. Imagine running those on petrol. You'd soon be paying loads more for your petrol, and for your car to put it in.

In the big picture, diesel cars contribute very little to pollution when compared to the "BIG" polluters.

 

Ships not just transporting cars but pretty much EVERY GOOD KNOWN TO MAN!

Just to add to the misery for VW - http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2015/08/researchers-reveal-electronic-car-lock-hack-after-2-year-injunction-by-volkswagen/

 

Saw this demod last week. Apparently the kit to do this is on Ebay for about £25 and 30% of VAG thefts in London already use this trick.

 

Affects all modes from Skoda to Bentley

 

AFAIK VAG have no plans to fix the vulnerability.

 

VAG put an injunction on the researchers for two years and in that time did diddly squat about it.

Edited 21 September, 201510 yr by Aspman

VW shares opened 23% lower at the open of the Frankfurt exchange!.

I wonder if anyone is interested........may end up with indigestion.

Automotive News (U.S.) First Shift has a report re stop diesel sales , but I can't seem to open it..........anybody?.

Lots of news articles on the CEO's apology now, and them suspending sales of their diesel cars, 

and just how much more emissions were being pumped out.

 

So they are really really really sorry, for being caught.

Really really sorry that they mis-sold and cheated people and that they can not predict the scale of what it is going to cost them.

 

Lets see what the other Manufacturers that lost sales to Volkswagen do now, 

or maybe they need to hold fire until they are sure that they are not people in glass houses that should not throw stones.

You can probably hear a pin drop.

http://just-auto.com/comment/will-vw-ceo-winterkorn-survive-this-crisis_id163188.aspx

Surely 40xCalifornia doesn't = Europe

Think of the numbers involved if that's the case!.

The North Americans including journalists get their numbers all mixed up, 500,000 cars or so recalled not 500 million.

 

You even see Americans asking why European cars get more miles to the gallon, 

not even a clue they get less in a US Gallon.

 

The North Americans including journalists get their numbers all mixed up, 500,000 cars or so recalled not 500 million.

You even see Americans asking why European cars get more miles to the gallon,

not even a clue they get less in a US Gallon. ....quote]

The definition of clueless!

Why do I get the impression that U.S. regulators have special antennae when it comes to their competitors?.

Edited 21 September, 201510 yr by Ryeman

There is a great rundown on this in the latest Green Car Reports online edition.....a v good read......mainly the '140 hp' engines from 2009......sound familiar?.

Ultimately I would think the trail will involve Skoda supplied engines which the EU regulators surely cannot simply coverup....where that leads to is one massive issue to be resolved......

In the States second hand ones cannot be sold either ........private sales?.

What a mess!.

Other manufacturers?.