F$£%ing front assist

[skd12]

rant...

 

So today I was out for a drive with my young son in the back. We'd been stopped at some traffic lights with cars in front and behind.

As I was accelerating away from the lights and getting up to speed (30mph zone) my car gave me a split second warning before dropping anchor, ABS kicked in and the old chap in the Audi behind got quite a shock. It then let off the brakes and I continued on my way ready to apologise to the bloke behind if he pulled up alongside me at the next lights.

 

Just after it had kicked in I realised that there had been a crisp packet, which was opened up so I could see the foil lining, blowing across the road in front of me. I'm considering disabling it now as it was luck that the car behind me wasn't close enough to shunt me.

 

/rant

 

Anyway, does anyone have experience of how insurance companies would deal with the payments if someone had run into me?

 

1) If you're behind someone and don't have space to stop then it's your fault

2) If you're behind someone and they do an emergency stop for no good reason it's their fault but point 1 still applies.

3) How does one prove that the car chose to do an emergency stop without the driver's input?

Edited 12 May, 2016 by xdq

[wlange]

If you are a conscious driver I guess you don't need such gizmos. http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/398767-lane-assist-worth-the-money/?p=4613262

Good that nothing happened this time...but since there maybe other "times" I would feel safer with my own foot deciding when to drop the anchor.

Call me paranoid but I wouldn't pay for such systems and even in case I got one, disabling it would be on top of "to do" list.

[Phil-E]

I wonder if such an event is logged in the computer as proof that the car braked one not you. Very scary and worrying really. I'd be half tempted to raise this issue with Skoda.

[octaviaconvert]

Driver "aids" eh!?!?!?!  I doubt this is the first such incident

[Stewpotz]

I'd be half tempted to raise this issue with Skoda.

 

 

I agree to this, you might have been lucky this time but next time......

Edited 12 May, 2016 by Stewpotz

[flybynite]

I think generally if someone hits you in the rear it is their fault, as they should leave enough room to stop no matter what you do. If there are serious consequences (injuries etc) then it can even be "driving without due care and attention". 

 

There could be other reasons you come to a complete stop that someone behind cannot see, it is up to those following to keep a suitable distance. The only exception i could think of would be if the braking was done on purpose (brake testing) and someone had a dashcam of it.

 

The irony is that leaving too bigger gap is sometimes just as much trouble especially "daaarn saaarf" only had mine triggered once and it was when some idiot swung into the gap I left and braked with no warning or indication. Cant win really

[skd12]

If you are a conscious driver I guess you don't need such gizmos. http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/398767-lane-assist-worth-the-money/?p=4613262

Good that nothing happened this time...but since there maybe other "times" I would feel safer with my own foot deciding when to drop the anchor.

Call me paranoid but I wouldn't pay for such systems and even in case I got one, disabling it would be on top of "to do" list.

 

I 99% agree with you. I added front assist to my spec on the basis that we were expecting our first child (now arrived) and I wanted what should be some additional safety features. I was hoping for little bit of back up in case I was tired or distracted but it seems to be causing more issues. I've driven 15 years without incident (touch wood) but the majority of the time it was only me in a company car as a service engineer so I didn't worry about additional safety stuff.

 

 

I wonder if such an event is logged in the computer as proof that the car braked one not you. Very scary and worrying really. I'd be half tempted to raise this issue with Skoda.

It's going in for some warranty work soon so I might ask the technicians, if they have time, to see if it's logged.

 

I think generally if someone hits you in the rear it is their fault, as they should leave enough room to stop no matter what you do. If there are serious consequences (injuries etc) then it can even be "driving without due care and attention". 

 

There could be other reasons you come to a complete stop that someone behind cannot see, it is up to those following to keep a suitable distance. The only exception i could think of would be if the braking was done on purpose (brake testing) and someone had a dashcam of it.

 

The irony is that leaving too bigger gap is sometimes just as much trouble especially "daaarn saaarf" only had mine triggered once and it was when some idiot swung into the gap I left and braked with no warning or indication. Cant win really

 

That's one of my concerns. I need to be able to prove that, if this happened and I got rear-ended, it wasn't my foot on the brake. If someone has a dashcam of me slamming my bakes on causing them to hit me then I need some backup.

That said, iirc front assist is only fully active under ~ 30 mph. Once you're travelling at speed it only reduces the severity of a frontal impact rather than attempting to avoid it completely. 

 

 

http://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/euro-ncap-advanced-rewards/2013-skoda-front-assistant/

 

 

I wouldn't mind the occasional false alarm but at the moment it's about 50/50 false alarms vs potential collisions.

Edited 12 May, 2016 by xdq

[octavianestate]

This is really worrying and a very valid argument with the main dealer and beyond. This kind of tech is becoming more prevalent on vehicles now but if this dangerous was to occur just once which in your case appears so I would be put off that tech for life.

Owners grumble on here about light switches and very trivial matters but this matter needs proper attention from skoda themselves. 'an accident waiting to happen'.

Is this really a case of YGWYPF, I.e., unreliable technology? Nothing seems to be robust or proven on these cars.

[sworrall]

I think your best defence is a dash cam as they'll hear the beeeeeppp and you shouting F**(&((! H&*$ in surprise.

 

Would be interested to hear if its logged in the car.

 

You might just be unlucky.  I ran 43,000 miles with front assist and never had a crips packet incident. The only time it seemed to have a meltdown was when using ACC and passing very low backed truck units on the dual carriage way.

[Defenderben]

My ACC/Front assist unit has only done first stage alert, big red symbol on the dash with warning sound 2 or 3 times in last 7.5k miles.

Every time mine has gone it has involved reflective surfaces of cyclists or a police car being on my left or I should say near side?

Must admit I do cringe if I see bags/papers etc blowing around on the carriageway but nothing has touch wood obstructed the radar detector yet.

Edited 13 May, 2016 by Defenderben

[pipsyp]

I've had two Mk7 GTD's with front assist...my Mk3 Octavia doesn't have it.

I now have a Zafira Tourer Elite 1.6 CDTi and have to say I now rather take having that for granted. It's a double edged sword I think.....whilst I had the Golf it saved me from a nasty prang at least once....but on the flip side it used to alert often when I felt it was being overly cautious. It never did an emergency brake on me though without being necessary.

One time I recall it did muck about was driving in a 30 limit near home with the ACC on....car in front of me pulled off the road into a car park...the car slowed down as the car slowed to turn....but continued to slow (and I think it would have probably stopped if I hadn't intervened) even though the car was no longer present....not a problem but I expect the person behind me at the time wondered what on the feck I was doing...so the tech isn't infallible.

It's also quite easy to become complacent when you have it.....now I don't it's actually no bad thing as it's 100% up to me now to not crash. I think it's a good safety system but if you become reliant on it rather than using it as a last resort it definitely can create complacency and the knock on effect being less careful driving.

My last GTD was plagued with minor tech quirks too....the last of which was the electric handbrake decided to start releasing itself when applied upon opening the drivers door to get out at random...as much as I miss the car I'm rather glad it's gone. The Zafira has an eBrake too but it does work at least.

I work in IT and like tech but sometimes I think simplicity rules :-)

Edited 13 May, 2016 by pipsypreturns

[Gabbo]

False alarms are not good & I've read a few things about flexible/moving reflective surfaces. (There was a thread about a Nissan update for something similar)

 

 

However, I think some times it is the drivers perception of "safe" and what the system does that is different.

For example, the situation that Pipsy describes (car turning left & ACC brakes instead of allowing the gap to close knowing the car is moving left) might be concidered strange in the UK.

However, in most European countries it would be normal for the turning car to stop suddenly in the road as pedestrians or bikes crossing the minor road have right-of-way over the turning car.

In the UK it would be concidered fairly normal to continue at the same speed & buzz past the turning car because 99% of the time the would have moved by the time you reach it.

 

 

In Switzerland the traffic is fairlylight & most drivers are very relaxed, leaving appropriate gaps, allowing cars to move into their lane etc

In these conditions ACC and Front-Assist seem to work very well.

But when you move to very busy roads, where its normal to maintain a less than optimum gap they can be a little incompatible because they are far more twitchy than the driver would be used to.

 

 

Like it or loath it though, Front Assist at low speed for pedestrian safety will soon be mandatory on all new cars....

[Huskoda]

I also think front assist will be made mandatory (like ESP and ABS before it) in the near future. Its a good thing if it works correctly.

 

I can see a lot of people who will (and likely have been) caught out by it, even if you are keeping a safe distance, simply because the computer can brake much faster and in a much shorter distance than a following human can or will even expect it to. From some of the videos I've seen of these systems, they stop in such short distances I have genuinely been astonished its even possible. A standard 2 second gap, which appears perfectly safe may very well not be if its human vs robot, particularly if the following driver does not expect it.

[flybynite]

 

That's one of my concerns. I need to be able to prove that, if this happened and I got rear-ended, it wasn't my foot on the brake. If someone has a dashcam of me slamming my bakes on causing them to hit me then I need some backup.

 

 

From my experience the weight of the law is against the guy behind. I was rear-ended after slamming them on hard for a kid running out in front. The kid ran off, I had no real proof and the guy behind tried every excuse under the sun. Did not matter. It was judged as his fault completely and he got 3 points for driving without due care.

 

It's also quite easy to become complacent when you have it.....now I don't it's actually no bad thing as it's 100% up to me now to not crash. I think it's a good safety system but if you become reliant on it rather than using it as a last resort it definitely can create complacency and the knock on effect being less careful driving.

 

I know what you mean, and I think this can be just as much of a problem. All this kit can make people think they are invincible and at the moment it is just not that good. 

 

It is not designed to stop a crash, it is designed to mitigate one if you don't brake in time. It is the same with lane assist, side assist, but it was the same with ABS brakes when they first came in, people soon got used to its limitations and what it could not do

 

They may have the odd false alarm but the people driving behind should be prepared for you to stop suddenly, especially around town. 

 

The long and the short of it is - it's all down to the driver.

[philhoward]

An Audi driver too close behind?  Never  :p

 

As above really - the guy behind was too close irrespective of the inevitable manner on the roads today that by the time you leave a sufficiently safe gap, someone will try and use it to get wherever they are going 10 seconds sooner...  I'm also a bit sceptical of these auto-braking systems.  I can see the advantage but I'm a bit of a Luddite on this one myself.

[Farsider]

Whilst I've had 2x  stage1 false positives in 3 years due to passing trucks on narrow carriageways in France, I have nothing but praise for Front Assist. It saved my bacon once when a car behind was madly honking their pedestrian friend (causing me to look in my rear view and taking eyes off the road for a split second) and almost at the same time, a white van broke heavily in front me.

 

We were only travelling at 30mpg but I would've probable hit the van in front. 

[manlms]

One time I recall it did muck about was driving in a 30 limit near home with the ACC on....car in front of me pulled off the road into a car park...the car slowed down as the car slowed to turn....but continued to slow (and I think it would have probably stopped if I hadn't intervened) even though the car was no longer present....

 

I have experienced this many times. I was surprised the first couple of times. Now I expect this to happen in similar situations and I am always prepared to put my foot on the gas pedal if it does.

[Mallettsmallett]

You have a duty of care to other road users and this extends to leaving an appropriate stopping distance in front of you for the speed and road condition.

Essentially your fault. You might be able to mitigate it if you had footage and a driver pulled across in front of you and slammed the brakes on (a la crash for cash) but you would need proof, or independent witnesses.

[vc-10]

EuroNCAP seem to validate the study- a 38% reduction in low-speed shunts. 

http://www.euroncap.com/en/press-media/press-releases/study-confirms-high-effectiveness-of-low-speed-autonomous-emergency-braking-aeb/

 

The question is whether the system prevents more crashes than it would prevent. Sounds like that's not the case! 

[Dr Zoidberg]

 

The question is whether the system prevents more crashes than it would prevent. Sounds like that's not the case!

That sentence makes no sense.

[skd12]

I also think front assist will be made mandatory (like ESP and ABS before it) in the near future. Its a good thing if it works correctly.

 

 

 

On a positive note; when they do become mandatory and the majority of cars have them there'll be less chance of being shunted by the bloke behind when you own car decides to brake suddenly.

[vc-10]

That sentence makes no sense.

You're quite right- I'm blaming the dyslexia  :p

 

What I meant to say is that the question is whether the system prevents more crashes than it would cause.

[Dr Zoidberg]

Yes, it will definitely prevent far more crashes than it causes.
You only have to read the comments on this forum from people who have been saved by it, and there's not one from a person where it's caused a crash.

[Skodev]

That sentence makes no sense.

I kind of like it!!

[vc-10]

Yes, it will definitely prevent far more crashes than it causes.

You only have to read the comments on this forum from people who have been saved by it, and there's not one from a person where it's caused a crash.

 

Yup- I won't be turning it off when my Fabia arrives!