190 TDI dsg engine

[Speedman]

I will report on here after I get the car. However, my current car is a 1.6d civic with 120 hp so the jump to 190 may make the lag less noticeable than someone transferring from a higher powered car.

 

Once I have the car I plan to get a VCDS cable, there are a few changes that interest me - I have ordered with Traffic Signal Recognition so I am hoping to add lane assist, plus having the coming home lights as the fogs rather than the xenon's and the Audi throttle response change.

 

I just hope I can either work out how to use it or find someone in Kent that has time to show me.

[Devonshiredave]

I got to drive a GTD DSG Golf Estate today. 184PS/181BHP? I found it knocked my Superb 190 DSG in to a cocked hat in every way except equipment level. Skoda, what have you done to our cars?

[Kungfugerbil]

I got to drive a GTD DSG Golf Estate today. 184PS/181BHP? I found it knocked my Superb 190 DSG in to a cocked hat in every way except equipment level.

Have you driven the Octavia VRS? Much closer to the Golf (but about 3 grand cheaper like for like).

The Superb is a different category of car. I love mine and most certainly wouldn't swap it for a Golf estate

[Devonshiredave]

Have you driven the Octavia VRS? Much closer to the Golf (but about 3 grand cheaper like for like).

The Superb is a different category of car. I love mine and most certainly wouldn't swap it for a Golf estate

I love a lot about my Superb, but I'm finding the fidgety handling unbearable. I overtook a slow moving van the other night and it just didn't feel safe. The DSG box never seems to know what gear it needs to be in. The engine, as noted by quite a few In this thread, is underwhelming.

If I could get it feeling more settled and sort the DSG out, I think I'd be a lot happier with it.

[Toonaroond]

Personally, I think the engine has enough ooompph for pretty much all situations.

Ive found that the DSG required a change in my driving style - ice got better with forward planning in particular because the system doesn't cope well with immediately required changes (how could it? it's a machine so can't anticipate!). I find it covers 80% of situations perfectly well with probably a further 15% where it's adequate if not ideal. For the remainder you've got the option of manual intervention.

I'm more than happy with the trade off bearing in mind the convenience factor for the vast majority of driving situations. I would t go back to a manual now (you can drive it like a manual if you prefer so it's the best of both).

[Toonaroond]

Personally, I think the engine has enough ooompph for pretty much all situations.

Ive found that the DSG required a change in my driving style - ice got better with forward planning in particular because the system doesn't cope well with immediately required changes (how could it? it's a machine so can't anticipate!). I find it covers 80% of situations perfectly well with probably a further 15% where it's adequate if not ideal. For the remainder you've got the option of manual intervention.

I'm more than happy with the trade off bearing in mind the convenience factor for the vast majority of driving situations. I would t go back to a manual now (you can drive it like a manual if you prefer so it's the best of both).

"Wouldn't go back" that should read...

[Kungfugerbil]

I'm finding the fidgety handling unbearable. I overtook a slow moving van the other night and it just didn't feel safe.

Might be worth raising with the dealer and checking wheels/tyres/basic suspension components - my 190 DSG L&K (admittedly hatch) feels rock solid and utterly confidence-inspiring. I've had a selection of comparable cars and it definitely doesn't feel fidgety at all.

Edit: also mine is the 4x4, so that's likely to make a difference. Possibly.

Edited 4 December, 2016 by Kungfugerbil

[BennyS3]

A few people have asked for this thread, so here it is. I'm not a mechanic nor an engineer, but I do have a fair bit of experience in this area (on both ends of the spectrum) and am happy to share what I've learnt so far. More importantly, despite other threads existing on the topic it might be an opportune time for other TSI owners to chip in with their experiences. Please forgive my verbosity and any omissions.

Overall, I would start backwards by prefacing thus:

Despite fierce debate online, and many conflicting articles, I really don't think running in a modern engine is rocket science. In the good old days, the big old push rod engines were made by hand and would have a lot of 'hone marks' on the metal, including inside the cylinders. Bearing in mind there was only one kind of oil - mineral - and it didn't last very long, running in was quite a complex procedure. You needed to provide enough lubrication to stop the engine lunching itself, but not so much the new moving parts couldn't wear each other smooth in perfect mating unison. All that worn metal left thousands of tiny (and not so tiny!) fragments floating around in the oil, which would then call for a 'running in service' not long after you took delivery of the car. Being too gentle could result in glazed cylinders, badly seated piston rings and bore wash - all of which are bad and all of which would require a top end rebuild to correct. Conversely, being too hard on a new engine (or indeed any engine) will accelerate wear and can cause its own problems, including a life of drinking its own oil.

These days engines are (mostly) made by robots, which have a massively more precise output and are also infinitely more conforming. Engine 1 will be pretty much identical to engine 2, etc. In fact with modern synthetic oils, even after 150,000 miles one can expect the original factory honing marks to still be present and undamaged. Everything is built to such fine tolerances that the engine is perfectly 'just so' right from the factory. Because of this, many marques these days don't have any special running in procedure. They just advise customers to drive like normal and forget about it, and that certainly doesn't seem to cause any real problems.

VAG (including Škoda) do still include running-in advice, and as such it'd be prudent to follow it. Regardless of what the Internet says, the people who designed and built your engine are likely the ones who know how best to treat it. That said, nobody can pretend that Škoda manuals (especially) are very clear or detailed - especially when it comes to the topic of running-in. The guidelines are very general, open to interpretation, and - respectfully - often in some Czech version of 'Chinglish'.

Generally speaking though, the manual's suggestion involves not exceeding 3/4 of the rev range for the first 600 miles, and then progressively increasing the revs (including, shortly, trips to the red line when warm). The manual also advises not using full throttle, not labouring the engine at too low revs (manual gearboxes only, DSG would not allow this even in manual mode) and also not staying at constant speeds and revs for too long at a time during the running-in period.

This makes sense, as the end result is a drive that allows the new engine to warm up, and then uses most of its rev range to help 'stretch in' the new engine and its many components. You're not just bedding in one thing, but rather thousands of complex moving components, all mated together 'just so'. Luckily, due to the aforementioned excellent manufacturing processes you won't find lots of swarf in your oil any more, and a running in oil change is no longer mandated. Your engine, regardless of how well built, is still a new beast however - and still requires some TLC. Here are my own observations, and I invite your own!

• Make sure the oil is up to operating temperature (~80oC) before you start increasing the revs past around 2,500rpm.
• That said, once the car is warm don't be scared to use the engine. The worst thing you can do is 'baby' it and just drive it everywhere on the low end torque, never seeing over 2,000rpm. This will be almost guaranteed to cause you problems with seating the new piston rings and can cause issues with oil consumption in the future.
• As per the manual, vary the revs. Your new engine will still be 'tight', and that is something you will physically feel as you start to explore the rev range over the weeks and even months after acquiring your new car. For example, there will be a slight resistance/hesitancy/flat spot in the power when you reach (for example) 3,000 or 4,000rpm. This is the engine resisting itself (to put it colloquially), and a manifestation of the parts claiming their space and rubbing up against each other under high load for the first time(s). Gently push through it, but gradually.
• Once you get past about 600 miles you can consider the car mostly run-in according to the manual. At this stage, if you have managed to restrain yourself thus far (and I hadn't!) you can start to push further up the rev range. Perhaps 5,000rpm when accelerating, before dropping into a higher gear for cruising, then 5,500rpm or 6,000rpm the next time, and so on.

There are a hundred ways to skin a cat, but they all have the same end result if you're careful. Drive away soon after starting the engine, never leave it idling, don't thrash it when it's cold, and don't cruise in the same gear and at the same revs for long periods of time. Ideally, on delivery day you would have a route planned from the dealership and back home via the scenic route. Moderate hills, twisty roads, varying speed limits all interspersed with nice straights are the order of the day. That way you get to warm up the engine, and then give it a lot of varying loads, speeds and revs (30 in 2nd, 50 in 6th, then 40 in 3rd and 60 in 4th and so on). Once your oil is warm don't be afraid to push the loud pedal, certainly you want to be hitting 4,500rpm at points throughout your drive, or at least as that's what the manual recommends.

Repetition kills new engines (at least figuratively, if not literally - eventually). Even if you have to drive on a motorway during running-in (can't you hit 'avoid motorways' on the sat nav for the ride home?), at least vary your speed and revs. Provided the engine is warm, give it some beans in a low gear up the slip road, then drop into 6th for a short while as you get your bearings on the new road. Then drop it to 5th or 4th (still at 70), and after ten minutes drop back to 60 in 4th, or 3rd, and keep changing gear up to 5th/6th and back down again. You are aiming to keep the engine 'guessing', and to not let it sit too still for too long.

One important tip which all camps seem to agree on, no matter how they word it, is using the throttle to slow down as well as speed up, as much as you can. I don't mean full bore accelerations (though some do advocate this), but rather refraining from using the brakes as much as you can. This isn't actually anything to do with the brake system, nor the 'new' pads and disks. Rather if you're regularly cycling your speed between 30/40/50/60/70 (or more) and back again, doing it using 'acceleration sense' (i.e. by adding and removing throttle, without using the brakes) puts a lot of varying loads on the new piston rings, which in turn helps them 'seat' better against the cylinder walls. In the long run that will aid low oil consumption and prevent glazing. Belting down the slip road as you speed up to 70mph in 3rd, then taking off the throttle completely to allow the car to slow itself to 60 while you merge onto the motorway behind a HGV in lane 1 is one example. Sitting in lane one or two (as circumstances dictate) at 70/whatever in a particular gear, drop a few cogs and give it some beans into the next lane over, and then ease off the gas so that the car naturally slows itself back down, re-adding the power as you get towards 50mph so that you bring yourself back up to 70... all the while varying the gears and revs you're sitting in. That kind of thing.

Those of you lucky enough to have advanced driver training (IAM, RoSPA, emergency services) will already be ideally placed. Just take it for a brisk run out across your favourite routes, taking in plenty of B roads, some fast A roads and a lot of changes in pace and gradient. Firm, brisk, and smooth - but definitely progressive - are the order of the day. Every drive - certainly after the first couple of hundred miles - can be a chance to push the engine, and its rev counter, that little bit more. You will literally feel it loosening up over the days and weeks after delivery, just enjoy it. Soon (especially after the magic 2,500 miles) you'll have a nice smooth, relaxed and revvy motor.

You do have to bear in mind that not only is your metal new, but so is your rubber (tyres) and so are your brakes. That said, you can almost fully run-in a new modern car just on the way home, provided you have a decent and long enough route. It's always one of my great pleasures, and generally in our case involves a day out in Wales (well away from certain well patrolled main roads). Your tyres won't be providing optimum grip for the first few hundred miles, and your brakes will take time to wear in properly. A few firm stops can aid this, but don't plan them for when you are approaching that stationary HGV or a brick wall! ;)

In summary (again), just drive the thing. Let it get warm, don't purposefully abuse it or bounce off the rev limiter in 2nd all day, but at the same time don't be too gentle. In the past I collected a new (diesel) car and - being young and naive - didn't quite get the gist of the whole 'drive it like you stole it / give it death' ethos. Having read online how white vans and hire cars are generally the fastest and loosest things on God's green earth, I literally ragged the poor bugger from cold, right to the red line over and over, and thought I was doing tremendously well. Until, that is, I realised even a year down the line it was slow and wheezy off the line compared to my brother's (identical, collected the same day) car and that I always got about 5mpg less than he on the same drives. I'd knackered the poor thing. Don't mistake progressive and hard driving with a lack of mechanical sympathy. Provided you get it warmed up, keep an eye on the fluids, and don't treat it like it's made of glass, you'll no doubt end up with a fine specimen which rewards you with years (and many tens of thousands of miles) of trouble free service. Just don't be too scared of that gas pedal... or a loud, high revving trip or three. ;)

Remember, OEMs take new engines off the line and subject them to 'torture tests'. The poor things are strapped to a dyno - or into a sample car - and revved through the red line, and kept at full speed and load (V-Max) for many days and even weeks on end without ever letting off the gas. They must get through some fuel!! However, they test them this way to ensure that the engines are capable of taking sustained high speed, high load service for customers, without coming to any harm. So, compared to that, you can't really do much damage... again, provided you warm it up first! Here's a nice example from a Ford test to give you an eye opener to finish:

.

Sorry this is so long, but I hope it helps give those who asked some food for thought. Feel free to add your own experiences, which - in these modern times - may well mostly echo the 'I just followed the manual and it's been fine' ethos. :thumbup:

Quoting Rainmaker from a different thread, breaking in TSI engines, how much of this can be applied to the 2.0 tdi 190bhp DSG engine? What's the best way to break it in....

[facet edge]

Just watched the Ford engine test. Very impressive!

When they put back on the production line I thought it would be funny if it went to a retail customer by mistake but looking at it at the end it wouldn't have have made much difference.

What is really a pity is that most engines won't get anywhere near this sort of mileage before the car is scrapped.

[killie97]

Speedman - do you have your 190 SEL yet ?. Just wondered how you feel about the throttle response. It was mentioned earlier in this thread.

[Speedman]

Speedman - do you have your 190 SEL yet ?. Just wondered how you feel about the throttle response. It was mentioned earlier in this thread.

Yes, I have had it a couple of weeks but only done about 650 miles so far so still taking it quite easy but I have no issues with the throttle response or power so far. I usually leave it in 'normal' mode, seems the best compromise between the low revving eco mode and the higher revving sport mode. I had planned to get the audi throttle response done but so far can't see the need.

 

Have read alot on this forum about the 190 and how powerful people really feel it is but I really do think it depends on what you are used to. My car until a few weeks ago was a 1.6d civic - 118bhp so a big step up to the 190. Prior to this I had the much more powerful 2.2d civic. This only had 140bhp which is very low for an engine that size but was quick due to the massive torque it had. If I had changed from that to the 190 I may have been expecting more perhaps.

 

Will be interesting to see if my view changes once I get a bit more used to it and accelerate harder.

 

On the DSG it has been perfect so far - have had no hestitation issues that others have reported so all very good so far - loving the car!!

 

On a separate note have just fitted the replacement door and boot lights from superskoda - the LED boot lights especially make a huge difference. Have also fitted the LED reversing and indicator lights recommended in the replacement bulb recommendations thread - these are good also.

[U241170]

Hi all.

Considering to change actual VRS TDI with Superb 190 HP DSG. I am a little worried about this issue of throttle response. Does this issue apply also to cars with Driving Mode Selection?

[ionelmc]

If you really care about throttle response you get a petrol engine (not the 1.4 of course). My 2c :-)

[Speedman]

Having had my 190 DSG for a little over a month now, I have no problem with the throttle response. My car has the drive mode selection. Out of the three modes - eco, normal and sport, I tend to use normal most of the time.

[Gizmo]

If you really care about throttle response you get a petrol engine (not the 1.4 of course). My 2c :-)

 

Even the 280 has this eco (dead) throttle pedal though.

[ionelmc]

Yes it does, but the DSG works better on it - it kicks down quite easily, just by pressing the pedal the right amount. I've tested a bit the 190 half a year ago and I don't recall it being so nice - correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gizmo]

Not driven a petrol Superb but loads of owners complain of exactly the same issue as the diesels...

 

My 190 kicks down easily enough, but due to the EU6 regs they have made the first 20 or 40mm of pedal travel to be pretty unresponsive, yes it saves fuel for those that constantly move the throttle pedal sightly (drive on normal CC and you will see most drivers do this as their speed constantly alters by a few mph) but for those that like to ‘drive’ it just makes the car feel unresponsive.

 

The ‘Audi VCDS mod’ helps a little, but the Response Control box can eliminate it (depending on the setting you have it on)

[ionelmc]

Ok but what's the point, you gonna floor the pedal anyway if you need maximum acceleration anyway?

 

What I'm trying to say is that you need no damn mods, just teach your foot to use that pedal! Can't take more than a week or two to get used to new car.

[Gizmo]

They obviously drive differently in Romania to (most people) in the UK, there is NO NEED to use any more than about ¼ throttle in a 190 to make good progress, floor it and all you will do is light the front tyres up (unless it’s 4x4) 

 

By having a ‘normal’ throttle you can ease the power on more effectively, rather than having to pass through the ‘dead bit’, I personally do not want an ‘on / off’ throttle.

 

Driven my 190 for several months / several thousand miles in all 3 scenarios (std, ‘Audi mod’ / Response Control) and I know what I prefer! 

[ionelmc]

Funny because I have tested the fwd 190 and it was impossible to smoke the wheels. You're making an argument about using the pedal as an on/off switch - ok, it baffles me how that might make sense to you but for any other readers here, consider this: a damper pedal is preventing you from doing mistakes. The accelerator pedal shouldn't swing your car forward after every bump and pothole. I mean look at this car, a twitchy throttle is *not* nice:

[Gizmo]

Anything but a perfectly dry road and it is quite easy to lose traction pulling away if you use too much throttle, this is my 1st car with this type of eco pedal, but for me it is not welcome, I can control the throttle and my speed easily enough without the ECU overriding it, I do not want a hair throttle either, just one that works progressively throughout the whole of its travel with no dead areas.

 

Maybe it’s the world we live in, things are built so everyone can use them...

auto boxes, so cars get better economy... despite the driver (a good driver will get better mpg from a manual)

auto lights... how many people obviously need them, just look at the amount of people who drive in the dark without putting their lights on, auto lights do not work in the daytime with fog or at times light rain though.

eco pedal... saves fuel for those who constantly speed up then slow down, by making the pedal less responsive.

 

The list goes on, yes some truly are driver aids, others are purely to bring the incompetent drivers up to a better standard, whereas better driver training would bring everyones driving standards up.

[Bud]

 

The list goes on, yes some truly are driver aids, others are purely to bring the incompetent drivers up to a better standard, whereas better driver training would bring everyones driving standards up.

Now how long would we wish to discuss this for, I hear the cows are out for the winter so should be plenty of time.

[U241170]

If you really care about throttle response you get a petrol engine (not the 1.4 of course). My 2c :-)

I would be happy to do that, however company rules won't allow. Only diesel..... :)

 

Still haven't found if driving mode selection eliminates or at least makes the throttle more responsive in sport mode. :D

 

OK, I will have a drive test. I hope to find a Superb with this engine to some dealer near me.

Edited 15 January, 2017 by U241170

[ionelmc]

Only diesel..... :)

Cruel and unusual punishment is all I can say. Sure, sport mode improves it a bit bit it's still a nasty diesel ...

 

Also I find the concern of throttle response of many of the diesel owners here rather disturbing. Does it really matter how it feels?! It's still gonna be way slower than a similarly sized petrol. I'd even argue that talk about how fast a diesel is rather pointless, unless it's over 3 liters :)

[indyjukebox]

Not driven a petrol Superb but loads of owners complain of exactly the same issue as the diesels...

 

My 190 kicks down easily enough, but due to the EU6 regs they have made the first 20 or 40mm of pedal travel to be pretty unresponsive, yes it saves fuel for those that constantly move the throttle pedal sightly (drive on normal CC and you will see most drivers do this as their speed constantly alters by a few mph) but for those that like to ‘drive’ it just makes the car feel unresponsive.

 

The ‘Audi VCDS mod’ helps a little, but the Response Control box can eliminate it (depending on the setting you have it on)

 

Hmm, my 280 has no such issues. Feels very linear/progressive in normal and slightly more eager in sport mode. But I havent actually driven a diesel version.

 

Come to think of it, I did drive a lower powered petrol L&K in a different country. I just presumed it was related to the detuned engine/regional variation. But I do remember a slightly irritating lag before the engine would respond.