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190 TDI dsg engine


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Now done 1500 miles from new. Feel the engine is a bit unresponsive for 190 bhp. Just wanted to ask you guys if I should give it some welly to help loosen it up, or should it be the sensible option and let it bed in slowly ?

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You're well past the recommended running in distance (1,500km) so it should be safe to give it some beans. I'd start pushing the engine a bit harder and building up to full throttle.

 

The VW group diesels tend to take 10k+ miles before they are fully loosened up so I wouldn't be too worried yet that you're not getting the most out of it.

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You're well past the recommended running in distance (1,500km) so it should be safe to give it some beans. I'd start pushing the engine a bit harder and building up to full throttle.

 

The VW group diesels tend to take 10k+ miles before they are fully loosened up so I wouldn't be too worried yet that you're not getting the most out of it.

10K - I've it more like 40K on the last two 170TDi engines I've had and I'm not exaggerating either.  Don't get my wrong, they are certainly looser after the 10K mark but as soon as they hit about 65-70K kms (40/45k miles) everything totally frees up and it feels like a car has had a few extra horsepower thrown in!  I even remember it was the same with the old 1.9 PD units.

Now done 1500 miles from new. Feel the engine is a bit unresponsive for 190 bhp. Just wanted to ask you guys if I should give it some welly to help loosen it up, or should it be the sensible option and let it bed in slowly ?

BTW, you're not the first on here to notice that.  The general consensus seems to be that the real world difference between the 150 and 190 is not what the 40 extra horsepower (or 50nm of torque) would actually suggest and the 190 is a bit flat.  I've been test driving a few back to back and didn't notice any massive difference either, certainly not where I was expecting it - in the mid range.  Also, compared to a 5 series or A6 with a similar (ish) 190BHP, they certainly feel more like what you would expect from such an output.

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10K - I've it more like 40K on the last two 170TDi engines I've had and I'm not exaggerating either.  Don't get my wrong, they are certainly looser after the 10K mark but as soon as they hit about 65-70K kms (40/45k miles) everything totally frees up and it feels like a car has had a few extra horsepower thrown in!  I even remember it was the same with the old 1.9 PD units.

True, the CR 140 in my Octy Scout is still loosening up a bit after 30k.

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My CR190 DSG has done just over 18,000 miles now. It feels just as gutless as the day I collected it. I honestly though I had a 150 instead of the 190 I ordered!

 

It's not exactly a slow car by any means, it just doesn't feel like a 190PS/400Nm car. There's nothing at the top end - even for a diesel. Both of my previous CR170 were like VTECs in comparison to this engine, revving hard right to the redline. This one feels like an old 8v PD engine and is generally pretty disappointing. 

 

The funny thing is SWMBO's brand new Yeti CR150 4x4 feels just as quick as my 190...... :dull:

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dstev2000. - you've completely floored me with your comments, but also confirmed what I was half expecting/dreading to hear. I had the chance of a 220 TSI at the time, but opted for the diesel. Oh dear, what a mistake by the sound of things. Cheers anyway.

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dstev2000. - you've completely floored me with your comments, but also confirmed what I was half expecting/dreading to hear. I had the chance of a 220 TSI at the time, but opted for the diesel. Oh dear, what a mistake by the sound of things. Cheers anyway.

 

You can always stick a map on it. Performance issue sorted :-)

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dstev2000. - you've completely floored me with your comments, but also confirmed what I was half expecting/dreading to hear. I had the chance of a 220 TSI at the time, but opted for the diesel. Oh dear, what a mistake by the sound of things. Cheers anyway.

I'm really sorry about that, but it's how I feel about the engine. It really is disappointing. I was hoping it was just down to the engine being new, same deal for the test car which had really low mileage.

 

It can achieve over 50mpg when driven gently. Make some reasonable progress and that will drop into the low 40s. Again, the economy isn't as good as I'd hoped.

 

The thought of a remap is becoming more and more tempting......

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I feel the same. I have a BMW E46 with a 204bhp 3.0 6-cyl lump and that is far more lively and pulls like a train right from idle. The 190 unit really needs to be kept 'on turbo' or it just feels flat. This may also be why the DSG is so often in the wrong gear. It's map is expecting more response from the engine but the engine map will not deliver until the hairdryer is spooled up. Get the engine over 1,500rpm and it starts to come to life after which it isn't bad at all.

I'm sure my Octy1 PD130 was quicker 13 years ago. I can't believe it is simply down to the EU6 emissions controls, though they will affect some of it.

I'm considering a Kodiaq as the replacement in 2-years time, but not without the twin-turbo option.

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Reading this topic with interest as I have a 190 DSG on order (8 weeks in and no build date known yet!) having decided on this over the 150. I wasn't expecting it to be a massive difference to the 150 but the comments above are strange particularly given the faster 0-60 times (7.8 sec compared to 9 secs, higher top speed (145mph vs 135 mph) and greater torque (400nm vs 340nm) quoted by Skoda.

 

The above comparisons are interesting as before deciding on the Superb Estate, I test drove a BMW 5 series 190 auto. This felt sluggish to me and when I checked the specs it has the same power as the Skoda but is nearly 300kg heavier.

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Speedman - don't get me wrong. Absolutely love the car and sure you will as well. It has most of what you could want and easily matches up to, and beats, more so called " luxury cars ". You can however see from above comments that I'm not alone in being slightly disappointed with the performance. Guess we'll have to see what you think when it arrives. Hope you don't have to wait too long !

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I feel the same. I have a BMW E46 with a 204bhp 3.0 6-cyl lump and that is far more lively and pulls like a train right from idle. The 190 unit really needs to be kept 'on turbo' or it just feels flat. This may also be why the DSG is so often in the wrong gear. It's map is expecting more response from the engine but the engine map will not deliver until the hairdryer is spooled up. Get the engine over 1,500rpm and it starts to come to life after which it isn't bad at all.

I'm sure my Octy1 PD130 was quicker 13 years ago. I can't believe it is simply down to the EU6 emissions controls, though they will affect some of it.

I'm considering a Kodiaq as the replacement in 2-years time, but not without the twin-turbo option.

 

I totally agree with the PD130 comment. I was having the same conversation with SWMBO about the very same thing: my 04 plate PD130 Octavia. 

 

The 190 seems to have a very narrow power and torque band. There's lots of action around the 2500-3500rpm range, but not much outside of this range. The turbo seems to take an age to spool up at WOT >1500 rpm. I would expect a VNT to perform better than this. The VNT on my previous Superb used to spool up at those RPMs with no problems at all. 

 

Things are compounded by the DSG's mapping. Kickdown shoves the engine into the higher rev range which is waste of time. It then realises this and shifts up a cog, by the time this has occurred it's all over. 

 

I wonder if the EU6 spec has anything to do with the engine's behaviour? 

 

I stand by my previous comments that the (EU5 CFGB) CR170 is an outstanding 4 pot Diesel engine. 

 

Part of me wants to get my car on a dyno to see what's what. The other part wants to stick a remap up its ass and sort it out properly. 

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Interesting topic, have 170TDi with DSG at present and love it - think its a very well matched engine and gearbox.

 

Have read in a few places about the new TDi not being as good as the old ones and not being great with DSG box.

 

At present I'm sorting out spec on new motor and I'm moving more towards the 220TSi - still have to test drive one with DSG box.

 

I'm just wondering if the new TDi is more fuel sensitive due to the emission issues of earlier this year. My wife has the new MX5 with 1.5 engine and the hand book specifically states that users should use the higher octane petrol in order to achieve published performance. Would be very inserting to dyno test new TDi with std and high octane fuels.

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So I had the pleasure of a short test drive in one recently.

 

Have to agree about it feeling gutless. Even compared to the previous CR170.

 

It's like it's just lacking any real punch low down... then you expect it to really fly once it's revving above 2000rpm but never quite delivers. It's by no means a slow car but felt a bit limp.

 

When I compare it to the Saab that will just fly from any RPM and pulls hard right up to the red line it just feels alive and gives you a grin when you realise how easily you just overtook that last car. I know an unfair comparison given the Saab has 2 turbos but it's only a 1.9 litre vs the 2.0 skoda but they both have 400nm of torque, 180/190bhp and auto gearboxes.

 

It was a lovely car to drive don't get me wrong but you just expect it to feel a bit more alive when you plant your foot.

 

I also think it's emissions/EU6 related. Why can't we have the punchy PD engine again?! hehe

Edited by Phil-E
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I've got a Combi 190 on order and wonder if I will be able to get more out of it as it's a manual, reading the comments above it does sound like the DSG just doesn't get it right most of the time, having full control of what gear the car is in should be of benefit right?

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I'm sure my Octy1 PD130 was quicker 13 years ago. I can't believe it is simply down to the EU6 emissions controls, though they will affect some of it.

Definitely, the old PD130 was a great engine, loads of grunt from very few revs.

 

The wife's BMW 320d auto is very similar, but with 185bhp, and loads of low down grunt, 0-60 in 7.5 seconds - and you rarely need to go over 2000rpm a lot of the time so when driven carefully on a run it can also do 70mpg. I have never noticed the BMW doing a DPF regen at all, they claim it has 'low' emissions, so how do BMW manage it but others don't seem to be able to. Admittedly the 320 is EU5 (I think), but even so.....

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I have never noticed the BMW doing a DPF regen at all, they claim it has 'low' emissions, so how do BMW manage it but others don't seem to be able to. Admittedly the 320 is EU5 (I think), but even so.....

My EU5 X6 has a DPF and the cycle runs every 300 miles or so but I only know it if I happen to turn the car off mid-regen at which point it sounds like a jet engine running for 10 minutes whilst it cools everything down underneath. Apart from the crash structures the rest of the front is plastic - er sorry, high quality lightweight composite materials.

Edited by FelisBengalensis
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My EU5 X6 has a DPF and the cycle runs every 300 miles or so but I only know it if I happen to turn the car off mid-regen at which point it sounds like a jet engine running for 10 minutes whilst it cools everything down underneath. Apart from the crash structures the rest of the front is plastic - er sorry, high quality lightweight composite materials.

Same as my Superb when it does a DPF regen, the tickover is higher at 1000rpm, when you stop you can smell it burning, and the fans keep running to keep everything cool, but I've never had this in the BMW - not even once and we've done over 80k miles in it now. Plus it doesn't use Adblue which is another bonus. Just makes me wonder why VWG cars appear to be behind on the diesel technology compared to other manufacturers.

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My 190DSG is in for a service. Lo and behold, I've been given a 150DSG as a loaner. 

 

Seriously, I am really struggling to see any real world difference between the two engines. 

 

The only difference being the 150 is nicer to drive, feels more flexible, doesn't have AdBlue, is generally quieter and is considerably more economical. Also, the 150 has about 800 miles on the clock. My 190 has 18,500 on it......

 

The 150 pulls nicely from 1500 rpm in 6th. My 190 feels really sluggish in the same scenario. Also, I have a few very unscientific 'benchmarks' on my route home. The difference between the 150 and 190 was negligible.

 

I am seriously wondering if there's something wrong with my 190 as I can't understand where the 40PS and 50Nm difference is. Either that or the engine's map is crappy due to EU6 and AdBlue? But then again, my wife's CR150 EU6 Yeti 4x4 pulls like a train - when it works properly - that's another story.....

 

My advice to anyone looking at a diesel Superb: Make sure you test the 150 and 190 back to back. Even if it means driving to different dealerships. 

 

I didn't test the 150 (idiot!). If I had tested both back to back, I would really struggle to justify the 190, and it's £2000+ premium! 

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Interesting comment Dstev.

 

I have the 150 DSG but have been reading this thread with interest. My 150 goes like the wind, slip it into sport and squeeze and you have overtaken easily. Leave it in sport and you can push on perhaps too easily sometimes.

 

Runs very smoothly at 60-70 mph and will drop down to lower gear without hesitation to accelerate quickly enough even at those speeds. Poodle at 30 and need to push away, a quick squeeze of the throttle and she is away; as you say pulls smoothly from very low revs. Mine has just short of 10k on the clock and 'feels' like it is getting sharper all the time. Purely subjective comment of course but it definitely runs a lot easier.

 

From the comments on here I am very pleased I didn't go for the 190 ! Sounds like there may be an element of the old adage that you can boost power as much as you like but unless you can use it....??

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I definitely wouldn't have picked the 190 if buying new, it would have been the 150. As it happens I got an ex demo 190 4x4 DSG L&K for little more than the SE-L 150 I was close to ordering so it was a no-brainer for me.

I find the 190 pretty decent - and in the right place in sport mode it pulls pretty well - but the 150 I test drive felt okay too. Definitely a difference though - I drove them back to back.

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