EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[@Lee]

It's in the public interest to undertake these investigations..............................
It's also in the public interest for us to not tell you what we've found. 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-this-decision-is-brexit-in-a-nutshell/

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/michael-gove-accused-of-suppressing-secret-report-into-brexit-food-price-rises_uk_59c4cd9ce4b06ddf45f6eaa9?

http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Regulation/Food-price-rise-estimates-withheld-by-government

[S00perb]

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

It's in the public interest to undertake these investigations..............................
It's also in the public interest for us to not tell you what we've found. 

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-this-decision-is-brexit-in-a-nutshell/

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/michael-gove-accused-of-suppressing-secret-report-into-brexit-food-price-rises_uk_59c4cd9ce4b06ddf45f6eaa9?

http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Regulation/Food-price-rise-estimates-withheld-by-government

 

I think people need encouragement to read that - Defra is not some small biased government department. They are there to ensure WE have the food we need to eat (amongst other things). If they have an opinion on food prices, it isn't a finger in the air guess; they worked it out. And they are being gagged!

"A strong public interest in WITHOLDING this information"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The government has refused to publish a Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) analysis because “premature disclosure of information could seriously mislead the public and is not in the public interest”.

Government ‘withholds’ Brexit food price estimates

By Matt Atherton+, 22-Sep-2017

The government is withholding information on how Brexit will affect food prices – raising fears of sharp rises and shortages – claims the Unite union.

http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Regulation/Food-price-rise-estimates-withheld-by-government

[lol-lol]

May's Florence speech.  Object lesson on how to upset everybody both at home and abroad.  How to be apologetic whilst also being patronising.  How to speak for quite a while and actual say very little.  Maybe delaying actual BREXIT for another 2 years will suit many.   Gives me a good few more months to build the declaration systems and train the personnel to make all these extra customs entries.      

 

Where are the money savings in the short or medium term and control of borders still several years away?  

 

As with my Civil Service pension scheme there is no pot of money set aside so the £20B for year 3 and 4 of post Article 50 triggering is a known quantity but the UK bung in to the EU Civil Servant pot to cover future pension liabilities and long term projects, like the Brenner Base Tunnel which the UK signed up to and is not due to finish until 2025.    A 100B Euro provision is looking increasingly the right amount of an exit fee.

 

As to effect of leaving the EU for farmers and food, there will be no more subsides for exports after a short transition period so farmer and food exporters will not benefit from the Rural Payments so will have to make more money by higher prices to UK consumers to balance their income.  EU would not subsidise exports to UK as they do with other export countries?  Hopefully no import duties on foods but stricter controls on individuals importing alcohol is a given.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 24 September, 2017 by lol-lol

[S00perb]

If the newspapers are reporting it right, that Boris the clown got May to change her speech - I would love to see her original.

[Ryeman]

I can see Boris with a Make Britain Great Again peaked cap.

The perfect joke!

[S00perb]

8 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

I can see Boris with a Make Britain Great Again peaked cap.

The perfect joke!

[lol-lol]

The people get the leaders that reflect themselves but it is a shame that Bojo, Davis, Fox and May are the faces the UK shows the world as it devalues the UK's stock. Difficult to see a way forward without major change ie Hammond as the lesser evil or do complete change after implosion over BREXIT failures.

[S00perb]

5 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

The people get the leaders that reflect themselves but it is a shame that Bojo, Davis, Fox and May are the faces the UK shows the world as it devalues the UK's stock. Difficult to see a way forward without major change ie Hammond as the lesser evil or do complete change after implosion over BREXIT failures.

Hammond!!????

The guy who wanted to go agains his manefesto on national insurance........

And

After ignoring recommendations after another london fire in tower blocks:

‘I think we should be proud of the way we cleared out a lot of the unnecessary regulation to make life easier,’ the Chancellor says

[S00perb]

[lol-lol]

7 hours ago, S00perb said:

Hammond!!????

The guy who wanted to go agains his manefesto on national insurance........

And

After ignoring recommendations after another london fire in tower blocks:

‘I think we should be proud of the way we cleared out a lot of the unnecessary regulation to make life easier,’ the Chancellor says

 

 

Possibly the one with half an idea in a collection of know naughts.  

 

The National Insurance move on the Self employed had merit but was delivered so badly it became part of the latest Omni-shamble within the 2017 budget.    

Right from Kensington and Chelsea council and the government cuts let us hope those responsible for directing millions to exterior appearance rather than safety pay the price for those decisions.

 

PH just seems to understand a bit more than most Cons on the catastrophic cost of BREXIT ie of the order of £100B in trade before any significant new FTAs in place but the 100B Euro divorce bill.  If May sees the writing on the wall and sees she is history then who else but PH is even close to being even a semi-sensible choice.   

 

  

 

Edited 24 September, 2017 by lol-lol

[@Lee]

Related.
Merkel has won a fourth term so well done her!
AfD (right wingers) gained 13.4% so now have a place in the Bundestag. They'll have to speak at some point and at which point, they'll show themselves up for the utter fools they are.

[S00perb]

57 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

The National Insurance move on the Self employed had merit but was delivered so badly it became part of the latest Omni-shamble within the 2017 budget.   

No no no. The NI attack on the self employed was yet another swipe at the people that take all the risks and are an essential part of the flexible workforce.

The disastrous IR35 changes left government departments loosing a massive percentage of their IT experts and then backtracking to get them back (at far more cost)

This is a typical story of politicians being led by the nose by the newspapers (and by that we usually mean Murdock). Murdock demonizes a group of people until Murdock facts become accepted facts and everyone starts believing them. The politicians start quoting exceptions to the rule as if it were the norm and everyone cheers as the demons are striped of something.

Yes, contractors earn more. Why?

They have to, because they take the risks associated with not being in a secure full time position, and they have overheads to pay for because they work for themselves - insurances, income protection, critical illness, unpaid holidays, sickness, downtime.

No sick pay, no holiday pay, no pay when there is no work, no benefits.

But most of all - we only get work because we are good at it. No one takes on a highly paid contractor a second time if they are not worth their salt. No coasting, no dragging a job out, no larking about at work - we earn every penny.

Take those advantages away and watch how many of us just decide it isn't worth the hassle and retire or go for the expat jobs.

PH proved he just wanted cheep votes by picking on Murdocks latest demons - he is too easily led and doesn't think for himself

Edited 24 September, 2017 by S00perb

[@Lee]

Labour won't debate Brexit.
The kippers are ****ed that TM wants a two year 'transitional' period.
Labour have shafted those who voted to Remain.
Tories have shafted those who voted to Leave.
Two party politics is DEAD. 

[Ootohere]

Is that England's 2 party politics that is DEAD?

 

The other 3 nations might have 2 or more party politics and one or more in common, but they have different leaders of their parties or branch offices.

Scottish Labour just needs to decide who will lead the 3rd party

[moley]

3 hours ago, Lee01 said:

Related.
Merkel has won a fourth term so well done her!
AfD (right wingers) gained 13.4% so now have a place in the Bundestag. They'll have to speak at some point and at which point, they'll show themselves up for the utter fools they are.

Merkel's party has only won 32.9% (down from over 40%) of the vote, so a coalition is required for power and her normal partners the SPD have said they won't enter into a coalition because their share of the vote has dropped to 20% from 25% last time. The Afd party was sixth last time with 4.7% and are now third with 13.1%. Some of my German colleagues are concerned about the rise of the AfD, but they know why they have become more popular.

Merkels' win with 32.9% is good where as May's election win with 42.3% of the vote was bad?

 

[S00perb]

1 hour ago, moley said:

Merkel's party has only won 32.9% (down from over 40%) of the vote, so a coalition is required for power and her normal partners the SPD have said they won't enter into a coalition because their share of the vote has dropped to 20% from 25% last time. The Afd party was sixth last time with 4.7% and are now third with 13.1%. Some of my German colleagues are concerned about the rise of the AfD, but they know why they have become more popular.

Merkels' win with 32.9% is good where as May's election win with 42.3% of the vote was bad?

 

Germany has a very different type of democracy. It is not a first past the post as in the UK. They are used to coalitions and hard bargaining at the start of a process that can take months to agree.

TM HAD an overall majority - she gambled it - that was clearly very very bad. Only financial bribes keep her in power - and not for much longer (weaker than that weird bloke after Thatcher)

[Ryeman]

At least in Australia, all vote, all votes count via the preference system where votes flow on to exhaustion.

A crude first past the post for those who can be bothered -

No thanks!.

[lol-lol]

6 hours ago, moley said:

Merkel's party has only won 32.9% (down from over 40%) of the vote, so a coalition is required for power and her normal partners the SPD have said they won't enter into a coalition because their share of the vote has dropped to 20% from 25% last time. The Afd party was sixth last time with 4.7% and are now third with 13.1%. Some of my German colleagues are concerned about the rise of the AfD, but they know why they have become more popular.

Merkels' win with 32.9% is good where as May's election win with 42.3% of the vote was bad?

 

 

Merkel has generally been good for German citizens as she has kept the country generating a trade surplus year on year for a decade.

 

The Cons in the UK in the last seven and and a half years ie 400 weeks, have "run" the economy with a trade deficit of between one and three billion pounds a week, despite paying public servants 10 to 20% less than 7 years ago, and the UK National debt has therefore risen by a Trillion pounds.

 

The do have one thing in common.  The both let in a million non-EU immigrants in the last few years.  

 

[@Lee]

Be interesting to see a map of voters. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of votes for AfD were protests votes and I bet a LOT were placed in the former East or down south in Bavaria.

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, Lee01 said:

Be interesting to see a map of voters. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of votes for AfD were protests votes and I bet a LOT were placed in the former East or down south in Bavaria.

 

Indeed.  Old East Germany was the AfD's strong hold where they got about a quarter of the vote.   

 

Worrying times.   

[S00perb]

18 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Indeed.  Old East Germany was the AfD's strong hold where they got about a quarter of the vote.   

 

Worrying times.   

The very area where less refugees have gone. Typical. It's the people in the know, that live side by side with refugees who have come so close to certain death, that know how grateful a refugee is, how hard they want to integrate and what a positive future they want for their children. London voted to stay for the same reasons, little village Wales to leave - the ignorance of the ininformed.

[S00perb]

8 hours ago, Ryeman said:

At least in Australia, all vote, all votes count via the preference system where votes flow on to exhaustion.

A crude first past the post for those who can be bothered -

No thanks!.

I would quite like the mix of Australian and Spainish systems:

You HAVE to vote

You can vote for 'none of the above' and if a certain % vote for none of the above, those candidates are barred from the rerun.

But polititians won't vote for christmas

[Ryeman]

Murdoch and the conservatives in Australia would love to have the British voting system.  We were lucky our ‘founding fathers’ didn’t take the democratic system for granted.

[S00perb]

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

Murdoch and the conservatives in Australia would love to have the British voting system.  We were lucky our ‘founding fathers’ didn’t take the democratic system for granted.

Yep, makes up a little for all sh*te you have to put up with everyday (good weather, living by the beach, BBQs etc. - oh, hold on....hmmmmmm)

[Eddie-NL]

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Merkel has generally been good for German citizens as she has kept the country generating a trade surplus year on year for a decade.

 

The Cons in the UK in the last seven and and a half years ie 400 weeks, have "run" the economy with a trade deficit of between one and three billion pounds a week, despite paying public servants 10 to 20% less than 7 years ago, and the UK National debt has therefore risen by a Trillion pounds.

 

The do have one thing in common.  The both let in a million non-EU immigrants in the last few years.  

 

Regardless of who is in power

 

To get the debt down, you have to run a surplus.

Reducing the deficit or spending like a mad man will only increase debt but at different levels.