All,

 

Our Octavia is 8 months old now, and to be honest we don't do huge mileage, maybe 4000 so far.  We do mostly short journeys (school runs, shops etc) and run a dashcam from the USB (so only draws current when ignition is on).

 

In Autumn we started seeing low-battery warnings so took the car in to our local Skoda dealer under warrantee.  They checked the battery and the alternator, but everything was normal.  So we accepted their explanation that it was a combination of short journeys and cold weather as the cause.

 

However, over Xmas we drove to Berlin and back - a round-trip of 1500 miles.  And only a couple of weeks later the battery warnings are back.  I've also noticed that even after long journeys the start/stop rarely kicks in.

 

Is this normal for a Mk3 Octavia 1.4Tsi?  Or for a new car, full stop?

 

If not, do we have any option but to use a battery charger every now and then?  I'm assuming that a larger/better battery won't be the answer if we're draining more charge with each journey than is being generating.

 

I'd appreciate your opinions,

 

Thanks

Mark

Edited 13 January, 20179 yr by ms10

Probably caused by the eco alternator setup. Alternator only charges the battery at max capacity during braking or over run. A long run should cure it, but often it doesn't. You need a special charger that will do AGM type 2 batteries and the charger must have stop/start battery option. Hlafords do one by Ring, and it's £70

Hi MoggyTech,

 

Thanks for your response.  By "eco alternator setup" does the driving mode affect this?  I usually have the "Eco" mode selected, rather than "normal" or "sport".

 

The MOLL battery is not AGM, but EFB.

 

I have ordered a CTEK 5.0 MXS charger which I understand should handle stop/start battery types, but to be honest it's all a bit of a minefield.  

Batteries don't like short trips or low mileage. As the voltage slowly dwindles down from frequent starts and short run times, they start to sulfate in response. If the voltage is low for a day or so, they will recover. If the voltage is constantly low and never gets fully charged back up again, the sulfates slowly become permanent and won't get reabsorbed so you loose some of the batteries storage capacity. If this happens, a long trip will not be enough to undo the damage. Returning back to the normal routine just aggrevates the issue further. Add in a bit of cold weather that slows the batteries chemical ability to release charge and the issue increases. Get the battery tested to confirm but I think you may need a new battery. A larger capacity battery will only hold off the inevitable if the useage pattern remains the same.

 

A monthly boost charge or decent drive out will help refresh the battery if all you are doing is short trips with long stand times. The first sign things aren't the best with the battery is when the stop/start function stops working when you expect it to. It means the battery voltage/capacity is lower than the thresholds for activation and the car is trying to charge it back up in response.

 

Ctek do the best chargers with full functionality for standard SLI, EFB and AGM batteries. Dealerships use a maintenance version of them to maintain batteries in showrooms and Rolls Royce give them away with every new car purchased as they expect the cars will be parked up for extended periods of time.

 

MXS 5 is perfect! I use one for recharging and maintaining batteries.

Edited 13 January, 20179 yr by BigEjit

When in ECO driving mode, is the alternator not charging so strongly? I'm doing a lot of town driving at present and wonder if I should be in NORMAL mode instead.

It is simple: the electric consumption is higher than the production. A larger battery is not the solution. Or, it will help because it will contain more electricity and last longer, but eventually it will be drained. Short trips, many el. consumers, low rev's drains the battery, and that isn't the battery's fault.

The solution is to increase the el. production. Home charging from time to time helps. Longer trips helps. Higher rev's helps.

I have a 2 year old 1.8 Tsi Octavia and due to a mistake of mine some time ago when I drained the battery flat and needed the specialist AA/VW service on recommendation I bought a RING AGM battery charger specifically needed for start/stop engines.

It is a very versatile SMART charger with many functions perfect for my needs as we are currently in Spain for several weeks. Before we left home I fully charged the battery with the charger indicating 100% charge up from 60%. I then changed the setting to the long term maintenance mode where a very low charge maintains the battery to its highest level until we return.

In view of your problem there is also a repair mode which may be of interest.

I also bought mine from Halfords where it was priced at £82 but they price matched to an online price I obtained through Amazon so paid £72.

Hope this helps.

Try unplugging the dashcam for a few days and any other chargers in the usb or 12v socket.

Hi MoggyTech,

 

Thanks for your response.  By "eco alternator setup" does the driving mode affect this?  I usually have the "Eco" mode selected, rather than "normal" or "sport".

 

The MOLL battery is not AGM, but EFB.

 

I have ordered a CTEK 5.0 MXS charger which I understand should handle stop/start battery types, but to be honest it's all a bit of a minefield.  

Hi MS10, interesting that you are saying that your Octavia is fitted with a EFB battery - Skoda were only recently claiming that vehicles fitted with stop-start technology require AGMs, although it appears that some of the (smaller) Fabias are supplied with EFBs. Are you sure that your Octavia has EFB? My MY16 Octavia had the same problem after about 6 months, ended up with new alternator and battery (AGM) fitted under warranty.  

Hi Warrior193,

 

Thanks for your comments.  I've attached an image of the battery.  It's definitely EFB.  

 

The car was purchased in May 2016.  Is yours also a 1.4TSI?  I wonder if engine size and type dictates the battery technology.

 

I'll give the CTEK a go, in RECOND mode. But if the issue isn't resolved I'll go back to my local Skoda dealer and insist on a new battery. I'll have to take their word however that the alternator isn't the issue. This was tested when i took the car in, and they claimed that if there was an alternator problem I'd be most likely be seeing a flat battery, rather than just warnings.  Saying that, he was also 100% sure that the USB sockets were live when ignition is off.  I duly demonstrated that it was not the case. 

 

 

I purchased this charger for my Superb MK3.

Hi Warrior193,

 

Thanks for your comments.  I've attached an image of the battery.  It's definitely EFB.  

 

The car was purchased in May 2016.  Is yours also a 1.4TSI?  I wonder if engine size and type dictates the battery technology.

 

I'll give the CTEK a go, in RECOND mode. But if the issue isn't resolved I'll go back to my local Skoda dealer and insist on a new battery. I'll have to take their word however that the alternator isn't the issue. This was tested when i took the car in, and they claimed that if there was an alternator problem I'd be most likely be seeing a flat battery, rather than just warnings.  Saying that, he was also 100% sure that the USB sockets were live when ignition is off.  I duly demonstrated that it was not the case. 

 

Hi MS, yes mine is a 1.4 TSI estate. The dealer changed the alternator first, as it apparently wasn't quite putting out a high enough voltage (AGMs need a slightly higher voltage than standard LA or EFB batteries) - but the problem continued until they say they changed the battery. I'm suspicious, however, that the battery they put in might not have been brand new, as I have seen the problem a few times this winter too. I bought myself a Ring RSC 608 charger to see if I can narrow down the issue to this "new" battery being faulty too. Be aware also that the alternator is supposed to reduce the charging voltage until the "regenerative braking system" kicks in under deceleration or braking - although I am seeing around 14.7 VDC, from the alternator, at the battery terminals at idle speed. This was with the estimated battery capacity (on the charger) at 60%. Am I correct in supposing that your battery condition meter is disabled?   

Hi MS, yes mine is a 1.4 TSI estate. The dealer changed the alternator first, as it apparently wasn't quite putting out a high enough voltage (AGMs need a slightly higher voltage than standard LA or EFB batteries) - but the problem continued until they say they changed the battery. I'm suspicious, however, that the battery they put in might not have been brand new, as I have seen the problem a few times this winter too. I bought myself a Ring RSC 608 charger to see if I can narrow down the issue to this "new" battery being faulty too. Be aware also that the alternator is supposed to reduce the charging voltage until the "regenerative braking system" kicks in under deceleration or braking - although I am seeing around 14.7 VDC, from the alternator, at the battery terminals at idle speed. This was with the estimated battery capacity (on the charger) at 60%. Am I correct in supposing that your battery condition meter is disabled?

Is this the inbuilt battery condition meter? I don't know tbh. How do I check the alternator voltage? I've also tried checking the battery charge % by holding down the trip button with ignition off, but only see SOC---.

Edited 14 January, 20179 yr by ms10

Is this the inbuilt battery condition meter? I don't know tbh. How do I check the alternator voltage? I've also tried checking the battery charge % by holding down the trip button with ignition off, but only see SOC---.

The SOC---% appears to confirm Skoda UKs statement that the battery meter has now been deactivated. In my mind, a rather strange thing for them to do - unless it is some attempt by them to "resolve" some problem or other (read, they found that the battery meter didn't work properly, and removal was cheaper than fixing it) You will need to use a digital volt meter (DMM) to check the alternator output - unless your Ctek charger has an alternator test function built in. Remember to use the negative "tag" on the bulkhead rather than the battery terminal post.

The SOC---% appears to confirm Skoda UKs statement that the battery meter has now been deactivated. In my mind, a rather strange thing for them to do - unless it is some attempt by them to "resolve" some problem or other (read, they found that the battery meter didn't work properly, and removal was cheaper than fixing it) You will need to use a digital volt meter (DMM) to check the alternator output - unless your Ctek charger has an alternator test function built in. Remember to use the negative "tag" on the bulkhead rather than the battery terminal post.

Many thanks for your advice here. While we're on the subject of the bulkhead terminal I've asked in another post if it's possible to use a 12v adapter into the cigarette lighter socket for charging an Octavia battery. Any idea?

Many thanks for your advice here. While we're on the subject of the bulkhead terminal I've asked in another post if it's possible to use a 12v adapter into the cigarette lighter socket for charging an Octavia battery. Any idea?

I have seen reference to doing this to get the front passenger door open in the event of a fully discharged battery (to the point where the central locking won't operate) so yes I think you probably can - although it would pay to keep the charge rate down. I don't know what the fuse rating is on the cig-lighter socket is, but it is almost certain to be higher than the output of a smart charger. 

Edited 14 January, 20179 yr by Warrior193

I also have a 1.4TSI. I think it was produced in april 14. I have just seen that it is a 59Ah EFB battery, i thought it was AGM so i yesterday recharged the battery with the charger set to AGM mode.

Hi Warrior193,

Thanks for your comments. I've attached an image of the battery. It's definitely EFB.

The car was purchased in May 2016. Is yours also a 1.4TSI? I wonder if engine size and type dictates the battery technology.

I'll give the CTEK a go, in RECOND mode. But if the issue isn't resolved I'll go back to my local Skoda dealer and insist on a new battery. I'll have to take their word however that the alternator isn't the issue. This was tested when i took the car in, and they claimed that if there was an alternator problem I'd be most likely be seeing a flat battery, rather than just warnings. Saying that, he was also 100% sure that the USB sockets were live when ignition is off. I duly demonstrated that it was not the case.

A dealer won't necessarily change a battery suffering from discharge damage FOC. It's not a manufacturing fault and therefore might not be covered under warranty.

Secondly EFB are correctly specced for micro-hybrid vehicles. AGM tend to be fitted to high end vehicles with a high electrical feature content or electrical demands. EFB appear on mid spec micro-hybrid vehicles. Standard flooded batteries end up on entry level low feature vehicles.

As for the SOC indicator. I am not surprised it's been dropped as a feature. To get it to take a reading, the electrical system needs to be live which by doing so takes energy from the battery which skews the result. You can only accurately measure a battery output with it disconnected.

Edited 14 January, 20179 yr by BigEjit

I wonder if dsg version will not charge as much in ECO mode as it tends to coast, so there will be much less over run of the engine, less engine braking?

The electrical system determines how much maintenance charging is required on the battery. Smart alternators are only switched on when the battery requires a charge so that there is no unnecessary energy being taken from the engine and therefore fuel wasted. If the battery doesn't need a boost, even regen braking won't add anything.

Edited 14 January, 20179 yr by BigEjit

A dealer won't necessarily change a battery suffering from discharge damage FOC. It's not a manufacturing fault and therefore might not be covered under warranty.

Secondly EFB are correctly specced for micro-hybrid vehicles. AGM tend to be fitted to high end vehicles with a high electrical feature content or electrical demands. EFB appear on mid spec micro-hybrid vehicles. Standard flooded batteries end up on entry level low feature vehicles.

As for the SOC indicator. I am not surprised it's been dropped as a feature. To get it to take a reading, the electrical system needs to be live which by doing so takes energy from the battery which skews the result. You can only accurately measure a battery output with it disconnected.

I would disagree with the statement that a battery can only be tested when it is disconnected - for instance, true battery condition can only reliably be ascertained while performing a load test - agree that you need to know the actual electrical load while testing, but an accurate voltage reading can give some indication - E.g 1 or more faulty cells. The OEM SOC meter only gave a reading with the key in the ignition in the off position, so pretty much zero load, even the alarm would be deactivated.  

Not necessarily so. Fit a DVM to the battery and lock the car. After 5 mins the voltage will stabilise showing near enough a true reading. When the car is unlocked, the electrical system wakes up and there will be a corresponding voltage drop for several minutes in anticipation of an engine start.

Using a Midtronics device will give a good indication of battery condition but is best used in an open circuit condition to discount noise on the system.

Edited 14 January, 20179 yr by BigEjit

If the battery discharge (and consequent damage) is due to faulty charging equipment, or faulty manufacture, absolutely no reason it should not be replaced under warranty. One possible source of problems with this micro-hybrid system, as designed, could be the requirement to keep the main battery in a partially-discharged state to allow capacity for regenerative braking. I have noticed that owners with the SOC meter enabled usually state "SOC - 80%" as a maximum.     

Absolutely right! If the alternator is duff then it should be changed under warranty along with the battery as consequential damage. A quick output test with a DVM will diagnose an alternator fault.

As for battery faults, duff cells tend to show up in a matter of weeks after the car is passed to the customer and normally it will be a catastrophic failure causing a non start event. Discharge damage is associated with customer useage rather than manufacturing issues. That's the bit that will be outside the warranty but a favourable dealer may change it none the less.

As you say, most owners state readings of 80%, could just be the offset caused by the ecu's being awake whilst taking the reading???

Edited 14 January, 20179 yr by BigEjit