Auto hold vs Hill Hold Control

[mlwprescott]

Hi all, just joined the site as I currently drive a Superb Estate and have ordered a Superb hatch as a company car. 

 

One question ive not had cleared up yet was what the difference between Autohold and Hill Hold Control (also called Hill Start Assist) is. 

 

From what I can gather, Autohold keeps hydraulic brake pressure on all 4 brakes when you come to a stop so that you don't move until you press the accelerator. 

Hill Hold Control works only on gradients greater than 5deg and applies the parking brake as you release the brake pedal so that the car doesn't roll back when you're moving your foot to the accelerator. 

 

As Autohold is standard across the Superb range, what's the point of Hill Hold Control? I'm sure I must be missing something here so any enlightenment would be appreciated!

[Gizmo]

Welcome

 

You have got it spot on, what’s the point of hill hold when you have Auto Hold? None at all.

[mlwprescott]

Thanks for the reply!

 

That was a waste of £100 then :( at least it's not my money going on it. 

[RickTT]

3 hours ago, mlwprescott said:

Thanks for the reply!

 

That was a waste of £100 then :( at least it's not my money going on it. 

 

Technically you are paying BIK on an extra £100 which is added to the P11D RRP of the car

 

Agree - there is no need for it on the Superb.

 

ps - welcome to the forum

Edited 20 February, 2017 by RickTT

[Scherpa]

I think auto hold is available only on cars with DSG.

[mlwprescott]

Thanks for the welcome/replies guys. I'll see if I can change it to something else then, but if not, it doesn't cost me too much. 

[tigermad]

3 minutes ago, mlwprescott said:

Thanks for the welcome/replies guys. I'll see if I can change it to something else then, but if not, it doesn't cost me too much. 

So have you ordered a dsg?

[mlwprescott]

I've gone for a manual. A DSG would have been great but adds about 20% on to the annual tax bill so it wasn't quite worth it. 

 

I had a quick peek at the brochure and the DSG gearboxes come with Hill Hold Control as standard. For all trim levels and engines/gearboxes it looks like Autohold is standard. 

[peter_k]

I've never bothered to establish what the terms mean but I believe there are two "come to a stop" systems fitted to cars (not just VAG models) .  As I understand it they both retain the hydraulic pressure in the brake system when the vehicle come to a halt i.e. all four wheels braked. The cheapest system releases the pressure after 2 or 3 seconds without the foot brake being applied (may be an interlock with the handbrake??) This allows hill starts where the handbrake can be released with no need to balance its release with throttle/clutch activation.  The other version holds the hydraulic pressure longer but at some point switches to the auto handbrake i.e. indefinite hold on a hill. I've got some form of the latter on my diesel DSG but I'm afraid I'm looking at "the traffic" and not the parking brake light when I'm at a junction so I may have it all wrong. 

 

What I do find a real pain with the system is getting out of a tight "side of the road parking space" on a hill where someone has parked their car 12" off the back bumper and rather than just rolling back you have to apply throttle to reverse downhill.  Every time I remember to experiment with the handbrake switch to find the easiest method someone always stops to let me out!!!!

[facet edge]

I have a steep drive to reverse out of and some times I find myself a bit too close to a concrete post on the right. Once I ease off the gas the hold engages. Then as you say I'm in the difficult situation of accelerating towards the post to unstick the brake!

Every time it happens I say to myself take it off before you start but I always forget. Having said that for general driving I find it very good.

[BillyJim]

Hill Hold Control was an optional extra I didn't take when I bought my DSG Superb II. As with previous automatics I'd owned it had a traditional manual handbrake (parking brake) so hill starts in automatics were the same basic principal as using manual gears: Get the car to the point where it's pulling sufficiently not to roll back and ease the handbrake off as you increase throttle.

That's a non-starter with an electronic parking brake which is simply an on/off switch.

That's where Hill Hold Control comes into play. It releases brake pressure gently and in direct proportion to the amount of throttle you apply, thereby preventing rolling on any slope greater than 7 degrees.

Auto-Hold, on the other hand, behaves on the service brakes in the same manner as the electronic parking brake, by releasing all the brake pressure virtually instantly.

In it's most simplistic terms, that's the difference between Hill Hold and Auto Hold.

Auto Hold releases instantly on the flat, Hill Hold releases gently on a slope.

 

So on this occasion I have to disagree with Gizmo - It's not the same thing. As he has a DSG with Hill Hold Control already included there's no indication when the car is using Auto Hold or Hill Hold Control when pulling away. Both systems appear to function exactly the same way with the green Auto Hold or red Parking Brake light simply extinguishing as you pull away, but they are in fact behaving quite differently.

[psycholist]

I wouldn't pay extra for it anyway as it can be turned on for free if you know anyone with VCDS software. On cars with electric parking brakes it's essential though as the electric parking brake takes time to engage and disengage compared to the mechanical version. I deliberately didn't switch it on on my car because I still have a mechanical parking brake so I can already control the car very precisely on slopes.

[mlwprescott]

All,

 

Thanks for the replies so far. I will leave my order as is and let you know how I get on. 

 

Thanks,

Michael

[Superb170]

23 hours ago, psycholist said:

I can already control the car very precisely on slopes.

Yeah, there is no substitute for it, the electric brake system and hill hold etc is great but its still clunky on slopes

[RickTT]

On 20/02/2017 at 23:55, BillyJim said:

Hill Hold Control was an optional extra I didn't take when I bought my DSG Superb II. As with previous automatics I'd owned it had a traditional manual handbrake (parking brake) so hill starts in automatics were the same basic principal as using manual gears: Get the car to the point where it's pulling sufficiently not to roll back and ease the handbrake off as you increase throttle.

That's a non-starter with an electronic parking brake which is simply an on/off switch.

That's where Hill Hold Control comes into play. It releases brake pressure gently and in direct proportion to the amount of throttle you apply, thereby preventing rolling on any slope greater than 7 degrees.

Auto-Hold, on the other hand, behaves on the service brakes in the same manner as the electronic parking brake, by releasing all the brake pressure virtually instantly.

In it's most simplistic terms, that's the difference between Hill Hold and Auto Hold.

Auto Hold releases instantly on the flat, Hill Hold releases gently on a slope.

 

So on this occasion I have to disagree with Gizmo - It's not the same thing. As he has a DSG with Hill Hold Control already included there's no indication when the car is using Auto Hold or Hill Hold Control when pulling away. Both systems appear to function exactly the same way with the green Auto Hold or red Parking Brake light simply extinguishing as you pull away, but they are in fact behaving quite differently.

 

I dont have Hill Hold control on my manual car.

 

When setting off on a hill, you just life the clutch and set off normally.. the car does not roll back.. it would only roll back if you set off and then dipped the clutch and allowed the car to roll back... same as you would in a manual hand brake car... however you would never do this as you would apply the footbrake, which then enables the handbrake again.

 

|The system performs flawlessly

[BillyJim]

2 hours ago, RickTT said:

 

I dont have Hill Hold control on my manual car.

 

When setting off on a hill, you just life the clutch and set off normally.. the car does not roll back.. it would only roll back if you set off and then dipped the clutch and allowed the car to roll back... same as you would in a manual hand brake car... however you would never do this as you would apply the footbrake, which then enables the handbrake again.

 

|The system performs flawlessly

I was trying to explain that Auto Hold and Hill Hold Control are two separate entities with different functions and having one does not negate the other, especially with DSG. You retain clutch control with manual but with DSG you can only rely on the throttle.

No HHC was one of the criticisms of the Renault automatic + electronic handbrake ("Why don't they do it like the Passat?")

Unless I was going to use a manual for towing I would consider a pass on the HHC option too - well, I probably wouldn't as it wouldn't be a financial constraint for a near 40k car private purchase.

[Scherpa]

Is there anyone who has managed to get the handbrake turn on automatically when you turn off the car without auto-hold activated. It was standard on my Nissan and other cars I drove.

[RickTT]

6 minutes ago, Scherpa said:

Is there anyone who has managed to get the handbrake turn on automatically when you turn off the car without auto-hold activated. It was standard on my Nissan and other cars I drove.

 

Not sure - never had auto hold deactivated .

[blahde2]

Auto hold is one of my favourite options. With it on, if I arrive at a set of red lights on the flat and come to a gentle (and I mean gentle stop), the cars brakes remain off and only the laws of physics are stopping my car moving.

 

If I then apply a little more pressure on the brake pedal, the green Autohold light comes on on the dash. As the car is now, I can remove my foot from the brake and relax as the cars brakes are being held on by the Autohold system (via the ABS module I believe). The great thing about this is that on gentle almost imperceptible slopes, there is no risk of you accidentally rolling fwds or backwards into another car etc.

 

If the car does not move in 4mins, or you take your seatbelt off /open any door or turn the ignition off at your destination, the green light turns red and the electric handbrake is engaged! If I engage a gear and release the clutch, Autohold disengages in the same manner the handbrake does, almost imperceptibly. On steeper slopes it can wait a little too long for my likeing tho, but that is a very rare occurrence for most and errs on the side of caution.

 

If I am manoeuvering on any kind of slope, the Autohold system does get in the way. It just isn't designed for carparks or tight spaces where a slope is involved. So in those situations (& after two rubbish attempts at manoeuvering), you remember you can turn Autohold off via its button by the gearstick. (Autohold cannot be coded (it wasn't standard when I bought) as you do need the button for these situations). Hillhold is standard and has been from the start.

 

With Autohold switched off, Hillhold steps in with its auto brake release (pause) after a second or two. This makes manoeuvering on a steep slope (without a manual handbrake) so much easier as it perfect alongside an electric handbrake! Time your clutch bite point's to its release and its as if you were manually releasing the handbrake yourself.

 

I thought I had wasted £110 on Autohold, but after 3 days of use I have trusted it ever since. As for which options to definately pick, if you haven't got lane assist as standard (£850 option I think), then £85 for Traffic sign recognition will get you the hardware you require so a VCDS Guru can code Lane assist for you for beer tokens! I didn't pick it and so coukdnt have lane assist! Grumpy am I still, about that! 

 

Enjoy your new wheels, you will love the car as it is indeed, SUPERB!

Edited 23 February, 2017 by blahde2

[mlwprescott]

After all the to-ing and fro-ing I've changed my option to select Traffic Assist instead of Hill Hold Control. Next step is to look through all 40 pages of the VCDS thread to see what can be activated!

[IJWS15]

Not got my car yet but if this is the same system as the 2012 Passat the way to stop the brake applying in close maneuvering is to unfasten your seat belt.

 

Stops the auto brake working and the switch becomes a manual hand brake, will have to wait another four weeks before I can try it on the Superb.

[Prykey]

1 hour ago, IJWS15 said:

Not got my car yet but if this is the same system as the 2012 Passat the way to stop the brake applying in close maneuvering is to unfasten your seat belt.

 

Stops the auto brake working and the switch becomes a manual hand brake, will have to wait another four weeks before I can try it on the Superb.

 

Thats interesting, never thought of trying that as Auto Hold can be a nuisance when parking so usually turn it off. 

[Tranberg]

I've recently started as a taxi driver. Which car I drive any given day is up to the whims of the dispatcher. If I'm unlucky, I get one without auto-hold, which results in agony after 11-14 hours of driving in Copenhagen and sitting for 100's of red lights.

One of the cars without is a Superb 2,0 TDI 150 DSG 6 with ACC, which is great.

Again, driving for 11-14 hours, you want to use your legs as little as possible, as the static pressure is painstaking.

 

Unlike UK, drivers here are not taught to apply the hand brake at each traffic stop, and on the Superb, the creeping is so severe that the hand brake has to be applied hard, and the stupid ECU doesn't realise that I want to stand still.

 

Switching to N or P at every red light defaets the purpose of an auto gearbox

Edited 30 April, 2017 by Tranberg

[BillyJim]

3 hours ago, Tranberg said:

If I'm unlucky, I get one without auto-hold, ... One of the cars without is a Superb 2,0 TDI 150 DSG 6 with ACC, which is great.

All Superb III have auto-hold. You simply need to activate it by pressing the auto-hold button. It's located next to the park brake switch.

For some reason auto-hold is not enabled from new. After a few times (about three) of activating it between ignition starts it then remembers the last setting used.

[Whaty]

I've only had my car for a month and I've only done about 1400 miles so I'm not really qualified to offer an opinion but... I've come from a car (another auto with an electronic parking brake) that had neither Auto-Hold or Hill Start Control and I find the Hill Hold Control on the Superb works really well, I've never actually used the Auto-Hold. In light of the comments here I might try turning it on...