Engine Comparisons 150/170/190 TDI with DSG

[kevin defty]

Currently considering ordering my next personal leased car and have been delighted with my Superb 2 170dsg estate. Wouldn't consider anything other than another Superb for the replacement. 

My problem is, whether to drop to 150 engine in L&K spec or to go 190 in SE L spec with added options. The extra bells and whistles on L&K spec is very tempting. 

I tow a 1500kilo caravan so torque is obviously a consideration too 

 

I'm not technical but can see there is an extra 60 or so nm torque at a similar revs range available with the 190 which would be beneficial when towing but can't find figures in same format for my 170 engine. 

 

Anyone gone from a 170 engine to either the 150 or 190 newer engines?

 

just had a 3 day test drive of the 220tsi petrol engine and was very impressed but not quite good enough mpg for a working car. 

 

Any observations or comments would be most welcome. 

Thanks. 

Edited 5 October, 2017 by kevin defty
Extra text

[cnc]

Most people prefer the 150 as they say its quieter and smoother and the difference on the road really is minimal.

Take a read here

 

[Sec8200]

+1 vote for 150hp. If you don't expect it to be a sports car it will no disappoint you at all. Even when loaded, has enough power and torque to handle.

Very quiet and refined.

Edited 5 October, 2017 by TTodorov

[cnc]

Further interesting reading here - if I were you I'd go 150 L&K, but that's just my opinion.

 

 

 

[simhub]

I have a 220 TSI L&K and I use things like lane assist and the Canton stereo more often than I use even half the power on offer. I would have happily bought a 1.4 TSI 150 L&K if Skoda sold one. 

[freelunch]

26 minutes ago, simhub said:

I have a 220 TSI L&K and I use things like lane assist and the Canton stereo more often than I use even half the power on offer. I would have happily bought a 1.4 TSI 150 L&K if Skoda sold one. 

I'm like you. Mostly, I drive it like a little old – strike that – exactly like a 70-year-old bloke who had enough thrills on his now-sold motorcycle back in the day. Still, I like that power on tap when I'm driving on the two-lanes in Lincolnshire behind the articulated lorries.

[NetScaler]

I went from a mk3 Octavia vRS Manual, to a 150 TDI Superb L&K DSG.

 

I have rarely thought i miss the extra power of the vRS, the benefits of the Superb has vastly outweighed the losses. Day to day driving, and the ability to make progress, is unchanged.

 

I guess the difference in power loss would be even less noticeable between the 170 and 150 than it was for me dropping from 184 to 150. Plus, isn't the mk2 Suberb heavier than the mk3?

 

Oh and you dont have to top up the 150 with urine every 5k miles liek you do with the 190

 

 

[Whaty]

I can't offer a comparison but I can say that I've never found my 150 lacking and I'm genuinely surprised at how quiet and refined it is. On a recent drive 'down south' with 4 adults and plenty of luggage (we expected a cold/wet weekend) I can't say I noticed the difference either in performance or general drivability. In fact, my friend who owns a BMW 520 commented that the Superb was quieter than his BM at, err, motorway cruising speeds.... I felt quite smug.!

[cnc]

6 hours ago, NetScaler said:

Oh and you dont have to top up the 150 with urine every 5k miles liek you do with the 190

 

 

I've heard the 2018 model Superb 150 also uses Adblue - maybe some owners could confirm this for us.

 

I have just ordered a 2018 model 150 DSG Volkswagen which will also use Adblue - no more hassle than filling up your windscreen washer bottle.

[Fatso]

I've recently taken delivery of a MY2018 150 TDI DSG and it does indeed use adblue.

 

As far as I can see the 2 wheel drive manual version does without adblue, but the 4x4 and the DSG both have it.

[penguin17]

I've owned the majority of VAG diesel offerings in the last 12 years and IME the current 150 is the best out of the lot.  I'm yet to drive the 240ps BiTDI and I have a feeling that will be bloody lovely. 

 

I 'had to' remap my 184ps TDI to make it feel remotely like it was half capable and the day I took delivery I wanted to drive back to the dealers and get the 150ps I p/x'd for it back.   The numbers/stats flatter that engine.   

 

Not had the 150ps with DSG but have had it in the 140ps and it was very nice.  Refined and very smooth indeed and not wanting for power when you need to press on, overtake etc. 

Edited 6 October, 2017 by penguin17

[Terry99]

I went from a 170 Elegance to a 190. I've not been impressed with the 190. Noisy and with vibrations at specific rpms, it's not the refined driving experience I was expecting from a 'top of the range' vehicle.

I'd go for the 150 L&K.

[Theo67]

4 hours ago, Fatso said:

I've recently taken delivery of a MY2018 150 TDI DSG and it does indeed use adblue.

 

As far as I can see the 2 wheel drive manual version does without adblue, but the 4x4 and the DSG both have it.

This seems to be right. I have a manual MY18 2.0 150 SE Business Estate and that does not need Adblue

Edited 6 October, 2017 by Theo67
Added bhp

[Ashmount]

21 hours ago, Terry99 said:

I went from a 170 Elegance to a 190. I've not been impressed with the 190. Noisy and with vibrations at specific rpms, it's not the refined driving experience I was expecting from a 'top of the range' vehicle.

I'd go for the 150 L&K.

 

I have to agree. I've just moved from a 150PS TDI DSG in a MKII to the 190 TDI in a Mk III Sportline. I've been  underwhelmed, with the acceleration lag in Normal mode, although my right foot is starting to adapt. Really noticeable moving from Sport to Normal mode.

 In Sport mode taking off from standstill, produces a a very gruff engine note and a distinct vibration through the car for a few seconds, to the point where I had it back at the dealers yesterday for a check on the ramps. Nothing found.

Only thing I've done put in a spare wheel but its bolted tight to the floor.

The only time I drove a 150PS TDI was in 2015 when the Mk III came out. The lag was so bad it put me off changing then. 

Ash

[silver1011]

It has to be said, there have been a lot of unhappy 190 owners reporting back on here, enough to cause concern.

[kevin defty]

Interesting comments so far. The 190 comments are more than a little off putting and make me wonder if the £2000+ extra price for the bigger output engine is justified. 

My concern is still whether the 150 will be as good a towcar as my current 170. Figures seem to suggest output is similar.  If I do go for a 150 I'm pretty sure it will be L&K spec with the factory fitted tow bar which is something special design wise. 

Ideally im going to have to drive both engines if I can find a dealer or dealers with them as demos 

[GeorgeB]

Hi Kevin,

 

I have a 2016 190ps SEL EX DSG 4X4 Estate (Ex Skoda car, bought used). When I test drove it I found that the throttle response was awful! (even in sport mode) I convinced the dealer to carry out the re-set? of the throttle, that is to say in the engine ECU go to acceleration & change the last to digits of the binary from 01 to 10 & manufacturer from VW, Seat Skoda to Audi (this mod is well documented in the forum) & as it's already a code in the ECU it will not affect the vehicles warranty. If your dealer won't do it find out where your "local" VCDS owner is & I'm sure they'd do it for you for a minor consideration.

 

I also tow a 1550kg caravan, & can confirm that the 190ps is far superior to my previous car a 2015 Citroen C4 Picasso Manual 2lt 150, I found that the 150's performance when towing could only be described as "Adequate" but with the 190 its "sparkling"! & not to the detriment of fuel economy! In fact towing it's much better, with the 150 I used to get 23/24mpg towing & solo 53/54mpg

 

With the 190, Solo I average 49ish, but on a long run that'll creep up to around 53mpg. Towing I average 27 to 29mpg.

 

Can't comment on the 170 as I've never driven one.

[FelisBengalensis]

I think the biggest issue with the DSG is that it has a low torque limit of around 400Nm and then add in the restrictions to meet emissions limits and you end up with a compromised power plant.  In gear overtaking has to be thought about harder than I would have expected - and further ahead, even in Sport.

 

Fuel economy is dreadful too.  After 30,000 miles I am still only getting 43mpg.  My 3.0L 330Cd Convertible achieves that with no trouble at all!

 

I’m looking at a Kodiaq next but not with the 190 engine which currently is the most powerful available.

[cnc]

2 hours ago, FelisBengalensis said:

I think the biggest issue with the DSG is that it has a low torque limit of around 400Nm

This might be different for the newer models. Tomorrow I pick up my new 150 DSG Tiguan, I wanted to know the exact specification so the dealer sent me the factory build list as it was on the verge of a 2017/2018 model (I'm getting a 2018 build model), it clearly states mine is built with the DQ500 which has a torque limit of something like 600 Nm.

Whether this is the same for the Superb now it has a 7 speed DSG I don't know, maybe someone can check their build list and let us know

 

https://www.vindecoderz.com/EN/Skoda/SUPERB

[GeorgeB]

5 hours ago, FelisBengalensis said:

I think the biggest issue with the DSG is that it has a low torque limit of around 400Nm and then add in the restrictions to meet emissions limits and you end up with a compromised power plant.  In gear overtaking has to be thought about harder than I would have expected - and further ahead, even in Sport.

 

Fuel economy is dreadful too.  After 30,000 miles I am still only getting 43mpg.  My 3.0L 330Cd Convertible achieves that with no trouble at all!

 

I’m looking at a Kodiaq next but not with the 190 engine which currently is the most powerful available.

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you, 400nm (295 ft lbs) of torque is more than sufficient, it pulls my car & caravan ( fully laden, 3750kg combined weight) without any problems at all, it storms up even the steepest inclines, as for the acceleration issue, yep in factory setting it's abysmal....but it can be cured! See the 1st para of my post just before your post, that's the answer to the "lack of acceleration", it really, really does work!

 

43 mpg, that's poor MPG! What is your driving mix? (my mix is approx 20% motorways, 25% dual carriageways, 35% rural A & B & 20% town/city) my long term MPG is currently running at 47.9mpg & that includes 2 bouts of towing the van (1. 470miles return & 1. 230 miles return) & today I went to Portsmouth & back, 63 miles (Solo) & my average MPG was 50.3mpg. I rarely exceed 65mph & usually tow at 55mph, as I'm now retired I've no need to rush everywhere going flat out! also, you use 25% more fuel at 70mph than you do at 55mph. furthermore, at £1.20.9 per litre (that's over £5.50 per Gal) saving money is the name of the game, travelling just that bit slower saves me enough money to pay for the car's insurance! Enough said.

[FelisBengalensis]

Well we just have to disagree then 

 

Mine is leased and under warranty so I can’t go playing with the settings.  I have mentioned this to the Dealer but they won’t play.

 

Mixed driving on my commute (60 miles return) is mainly rural NSL roads with short bursts of faster roads and about 4 miles of dual carriageway.  As I am in commuter traffic the speeds are always around the NSL or below. I have seen up to 48 on a single journey but the long term average is 43 and I don’t drive it like I stole it either.  Interestingly my Dealer acknowledges that these cars aren’t as good as they could be (some being down to internal VAG politics) and certainly not as good as adverts might have you believe.  Mine being a very early one may still need ‘revised’ software 

 

 

[Baverhanne]

Yesterday I did a 450mile journey with the car fully loaded - 4 adults and luggage approx 550kg.

Speed was going up and down but as we were in a hurry speed was between 80-90mph when possible (highway) . Add to that full throttle take overs when needed/possible and overall a very aggressive driving style.

My 190 4x4 dsg returned 43mpg according to mfd. In my mind that's a fantastic figure. 

Even if the MFD would be off by 10% I still think it managed very well!

 

 

Edited 21 October, 2017 by Baverhanne
Added printscreen

[fiki]

How can someone not see the difference between 150 and 190 is beyond me. Car feels much more powerful,has way more torque,and overtaking is much more "effortless". But in D mode dsg shifts to early,keeping engine in very low revs so it doesn't respond well (dead pedal). Put it in S and it is much,much better. 190 pulls quite high for a diesel,and above about 2500rpm it really makes the difference compared to 150. 

That said,150 doesn't lack performance,it is by no means thriller (neither is 190,superb iz far to hushed so you lack sensation of speed),but it will pull superb with no problem what so ever. I would say 150 is about the same as old 170,maybe a tiny bit slower.

I drove 150 and 190(both with dsg) before i ordered mine,and after 190 there was no way i would order 150. I was looking at 280(because in my country 190 tdi 4x4 and 280tsi cost exactly the same) but passed on that one because of my teenage son who also drives my car(and on roads around here i can't even push 190 as much as it can go). To be honest i didn't test drive the 280 because i knew i couldn't order anything else after that.

I drove 150 in mid spec trim (called ambiente) and my 190 tdi dsg 4x4 sportline feels like totally different car. I am not talking about the go(it is much faster,you feel more power under tap),but more importantly about handling (progressive steering is a must) and 4x4(with xds+ on both axles,same as golf r) combined with sport chassis and paddle shifters it feels much more agile and planted.

So i would recomed you get 150 tdi 4x4 over 190 on just one axle. I would also recomend you get progressive steering (which is quite cheap but means a lot),sport chassis (makes car lower,better looking and firmer) and drive mode select is not a bad thing(and not expensive,and thanks to individual mode you can tailor the car to suit your needs,for exhample make steering heavier(if you like it that way)while keeping drivetrain in normal for better economy).

Also,is there a particular reason to go for l&k? For me sportline is much better spec (seats are much,much better than l&k ones,especially for taller people,although i would like if they were available in full leather with ventilation,because alcantara is harder to keep clean).

 

[aldouk]

I was pleasantly surprised by the 150 comparing against my previous Octy VRS 184. 

If I ever get any reservations about the 150,I’ll get it mapped. 

 

Will also be trying the Audi change too, however this new one will be 7speed dsg and I test drove a 6speed. Hoping the 7 speed is just as good if not better. 

[Superb170]

To echo the above comments, I had two 170tdis and went to a 150.  The power difference is not noticeable IMO and the 159 is the natural replacement for the old 170.  Have driven the 190 and if you need to run it on an autobahn or similar where you’re driving inexcess of 70/80 mph on a regular basis then there is some merit in the 190, as the 150 probably starts lacking a bit above that speed otherwise 150 is the way to go.  Has less noticeable vibration too.