noise insulation

[gigolea]

I have just returned from a 3500 km vacation / road trip and found out just how noisy and rattle packed my Superb was.

I know it runs on Pirellis that will get changed but at speed of 140 km/h and above or at any speed on rough tarmac it gave me a proper headake.

I agree that most noise comes from wind at higher speeds, on good tarmac that is, but road noise is constant.

I admit that I put wind noise down to the windows and I am glad to be wrong. I think that the front windshield is a great source of noise.

The 190 ps diesel engine is a non-issue as it revs around 2500 rmps at 160 km/h.

So I will start by insulating the front hood, the wheel arches from outside and the boot.

Could YOU help me choose:

https://www.tme.eu/ro/katalog/?id_producer=933&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvezZBRDkARIsADKQyPny4AQOM49GeV1gad53UNURhOHXXVHx_9s2M_SUg47wGoEbaRkCCZ0aAvD3EALw_wcB

or

http://www.pro-detailing.ro/audio-insonorizare-c-137_226.html

Edited 3 July, 2018 by gigolea

[JackySi]

3 hours ago, nodigital said:

 

I jacked with a block of wood to distribute the weight on the arm where the spring is.  Highlight shows the width, obviously to the left side of the protruding nut:

 

Note this is not an official point but its flat and must be pretty strong as its supporting the spring.   For me this worked and I used the jack point as additional safety support.  Advantage was  it doesn't take much to compress the spring when jacked so I didnt have to lift it far.

 

That actually makes perfect sense! Thanks!

I guess if springs don't break that piece of metal it should withstand jack stand yeah! Very useful. I will jack up the car there and put jack stands where jacking points are (official) and that should allow safe work under car =)
I don't trust this jack a bit.

[alf.onso]

9 hours ago, gigolea said:

I have just returned from a 3500 km vacation / road trip and found out just how noisy and rattle packed my Superb was.

I know it runs on Pirellis that will get changed but at speed of 140 km/h and above or at any speed on rough tarmac it gave me a proper headake.

I agree that most noise comes from wind at higher speeds, on good tarmac that is, but road noise is constant.

I admit that I put wind noise down to the windows and I am glad to be wrong. I think that the front windshield is a great source of noise.

The 190 ps diesel engine is a non-issue as it revs around 2500 rmps at 160 km/h.

So I will start by insulating the front hood, the wheel arches from outside and the boot.

Could YOU help me choose:

https://www.tme.eu/ro/katalog/?id_producer=933&gclid=Cj0KCQjwvezZBRDkARIsADKQyPny4AQOM49GeV1gad53UNURhOHXXVHx_9s2M_SUg47wGoEbaRkCCZ0aAvD3EALw_wcB

or

http://www.pro-detailing.ro/audio-insonorizare-c-137_226.html

 

I am not surprised that you got a headache in described conditions with Pirelli P7. They create so much vibration noise on rough tarmac that I would like to quote @xman, that Skoda should ban fitment of P7's on it's cars. 

Changing P7's to quieter tyres would make huge change in terms of cabin noise. I have heared good words about people changing P7's to Hankook, Bridgestone Potenzas and was it Goodyear Asymmetric 3 (some kind a Asymmetric thingy it was)? 

 

If you plan to keep Pirelli's, then sound deaden first front floor (4mm vibration mat: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-insonorizant-silent-coat-extra-bulk-pack-4mm-scm4232-p-3521.html + 4mm isolator: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-izolator-silent-coat-noise-isolator-4mm-scni403-p-3514.html), front doors ( 2mm vibration mat outside panel and 2mm vibration mat on the inside metal panel: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-insonorizant-silent-coat-2mm-scm240-p-3513.html + 15mm sound absorber on door plastic panel: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-insonorizant-burete-silent-coat-sound-absorber-15mm-scsa15-p-3517.html). Covering door interior panel partly with 2mm isolation mats (under 15mm absorber) is also recommended but you could do without it too. Also cover hood under the original sound deadening cover (you put the original cover back afterwards) (4mm vibration mats there). Doing the hood also eliminates some noise that comes from front windshield. 

 

As you have problem with wind noise, I would also recommend to do B-pillars. Cover all that you can with 2mm vibration mat + 4mm sound isolator. Interior panel insides must be covered with 15mm absorber (make sure that seatbelt height regulator can travel full height). Upper part of B-pillars should be flled with TEROSON PU 9500 acoustic foam. 

 

For wind noise on high speed, I would recommend to see this @JackySi post at the beginning of this thread. He has had good results getting the wind noise lower on high speeds: 

 

And I would also inspect all seals if there are any dents or folds. Superb has had problems with those. 

 

I can't give you much help on picking the seller of sound deadening materials as I cant fully understand the product details, amounts and prices on the sites you sent. But the manufacturer and products itself are good ones. 

[JackySi]

1 hour ago, alf.onso said:

 

I am not surprised that you got a headache in described conditions with Pirelli P7. They create so much vibration noise on rough tarmac that I would like to quote @xman, that Skoda should ban fitment of P7's on it's cars. 

Changing P7's to quieter tyres would make huge change in terms of cabin noise. I have heared good words about people changing P7's to Hankook, Bridgestone Potenzas and was it Goodyear Asymmetric 3 (some kind a Asymmetric thingy it was)? 

 

If you plan to keep Pirelli's, then sound deaden first front floor (4mm vibration mat: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-insonorizant-silent-coat-extra-bulk-pack-4mm-scm4232-p-3521.html + 4mm isolator: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-izolator-silent-coat-noise-isolator-4mm-scni403-p-3514.html), front doors ( 2mm vibration mat outside panel and 2mm vibration mat on the inside metal panel: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-insonorizant-silent-coat-2mm-scm240-p-3513.html + 15mm sound absorber on door plastic panel: http://www.pro-detailing.ro/material-insonorizant-burete-silent-coat-sound-absorber-15mm-scsa15-p-3517.html). Covering door interior panel partly with 2mm isolation mats (under 15mm absorber) is also recommended but you could do without it too. Also cover hood under the original sound deadening cover (you put the original cover back afterwards) (4mm vibration mats there). Doing the hood also eliminates some noise that comes from front windshield. 

 

As you have problem with wind noise, I would also recommend to do B-pillars. Cover all that you can with 2mm vibration mat + 4mm sound isolator. Interior panel insides must be covered with 15mm absorber (make sure that seatbelt height regulator can travel full height). Upper part of B-pillars should be flled with TEROSON PU 9500 acoustic foam. 

 

For wind noise on high speed, I would recommend to see this @JackySi post at the beginning of this thread. He has had good results getting the wind noise lower on high speeds: 

 

And I would also inspect all seals if there are any dents or folds. Superb has had problems with those. 

 

I can't give you much help on picking the seller of sound deadening materials as I cant fully understand the product details, amounts and prices on the sites you sent. But the manufacturer and products itself are good ones. 

I also highly suggest checking seals. Try to put finger between door seals if u can get it through first seal, doors need adjustment. My car came from factory with seriously bad adjustment and driving on high way 120-130km/h you could hear wind like you have opened doors. After adjusting (my self) now even on 240km/h ( speedo ) wind noise is minimal. Most sound comes from the tyres. And I have very quiet Hankook (69db rated)

[alf.onso]

On 7/3/2018 at 14:19, JackySi said:

Back to the topic. What did you guys do about plastics like at drivers side the trim around buttons for windows is making really loud noises. Specially when I touch handle or when I drive I sometimes I put my left leg on "resting" plate and then my knee touches doors. Noise party starts there. Big time. Lately I also hear resonances from doors when listening at high volume, strange. If I knock on doors for example, it sounds like some minor anti-vibration is already applied which surprised me. 

 

I had passenger side door panel removed today so I sound deadened the window switch thingy too.

Used TESA textile tabe and as per usual, 7mm Silent Coat Sound Absorber. TESA textile is used in the front part of the switch panel.

When looking at pictures, I probably overused the 7mm sound absorberd and so much is defo not needed

 

And it's silent now. You can toutch it any ways possible and no creaks are emitted. 

 

Here are pics:

 

Edited 4 July, 2018 by alf.onso

[gigolea]

Thanks a lot for the details. 

However my car only has 16000 km so I would prefer not to desasemble the car.

I think I will do the front hood, the will arches from outside and the boot.

Would that make a significant difference?

Edited 4 July, 2018 by gigolea

[Enriquez]

Some photos from my rattle removal from dashboard insert:

 

 

After split of the dashboard... Then top of the insert - all plastic connected pieces needs to be separated by tape. Be careful with removal of the 0.0 reset button.

 

 

 

... and dome lamp, and between front windscreen and foof linning - yes it squeze the contact between the glass and linning

 

Blue strips of tape...

 

 

Red mark means - there is need to add some tape...

 

 

Put a little teflon between plastic and roof...

 

Edited 4 July, 2018 by Enriquez

[JackySi]

You guys ROCK! I'm defo doing the plastics that's ****ing me off. =) thanks!!! I need this tape, need to check if i can get it in local store so I do this tomorrow

My car has 24.000km. I'm going to do full sound deadening when I get all materials =). Mileage doesn't matter. Most of things we do doesn't have anything to do with the warranty (as far as I asked 2 dealerships). We're only adding material. Removing panels etc isn't really big deal as long as u don't break something and ask for warranty =).

P.S.: @Enriquez your instrument cluster looks like brand new, how do you treat it?  mine is soo scratched =(... talking to some AliExpress company to deliver me screen cover (like screen protector). Going to give it a good polish first though.

Edited 5 July, 2018 by JackySi

[alf.onso]

5 hours ago, JackySi said:

I need this tape, need to check if i can get it in local store so I do this tomorrow

 

Around here you can buy it basically from every store. Even supermarkets sell it not to mention building materials stores and car parts stores. 

It's original purpose was wire harnessing so wires would not make sound. 

 

Here it is: http://www.tesa.co.uk/industry/tesa-51608.html?_ga=2.102196163.338848245.1530772968-1497420739.1530772968

 

[alf.onso]

13 hours ago, gigolea said:

Thanks a lot for the details. 

However my car only has 16000 km so I would prefer not to desasemble the car.

I think I will do the front hood, the will arches from outside and the boot.

Would that make a significant difference?

 

Then it is a bit tricky as most of the Pirelly created vibration sound comes from front floor. Hood and wheel arches from the outside will have an effect but it will not solve your problem. 

Without interior panels removal you would get best result by just changing tyres. For example buy a set of Hankooks and sell your P7's as used. If your Pirellis are in good condition then you still get decent money from them. 

 

My Superb has around 10 000 km and I have dismantled most of it by now

When I bought my last car (not Superb), I started sound deadening it on the same week recieved. I was just holding a removed interior door panel when a woman next door saw me. She went all pale and sarted gasping air and I thought she was getting a heart attack. I don't think she still finds my brain fully functional but by now she is atleast used to seeing me with some removed car part in my hand and don't freak out anymore

 

Minimum sound deadening IMHO for MK3 Superb would be:

- hood
- front floor
- doors

- B-pillar
- rear wheel arches

- boot floor

 

If you do only some of them, you get some results but you will hear even more sound from undone places 

[alf.onso]

12 hours ago, Enriquez said:

Some photos from my rattle removal from dashboard insert:

 

 

 

Thanks mate! 
I also have instruments cluster sound deadening in my todo list and have been struggling with finding information on how to remove it. 

[alf.onso]

Couple of more pictures from yesterday's odd noises deadening.

 

Had some occasional small noise coming from the passenger side door panel so took my old friend TESA textile tape and removed the door panel.

I knew the sound location but not the exact piece making it so I deadened two most likely objects. 

On the second picture, I wrapped shown plastic part from both sides. It is a "socket" for one door panel "clip" (dunno proper word in English - hook?).

 

I know that I would have gotten rid of that sound after 15mm sound absorber is installed to the door panel but as I plan to swap door panel PU leather insert into Alcantara, I didn't have pattience to wait that long (15mm sound absorber must be installed after Alcantara). Thusfar I have managed to swap Alcantara only on drivers door

 

[JackySi]

I did passanger side and rear but cant get drivers side console off its too tight, any ideas?

 

[alf.onso]

2 hours ago, JackySi said:

I did passanger side and rear but cant get drivers side console off its too tight, any ideas?

 

Yup, same hare. I just pulled it as high as I could and used thin screwdriver to push the plug release clip and all was good. 

 

EDIT: Or do you mean you cant get it out of clips? Did you use the proper plastic car panel removal thingy?

Edited 5 July, 2018 by alf.onso

[JackySi]

1 hour ago, alf.onso said:

 

Yup, same hare. I just pulled it as high as I could and used thin screwdriver to push the plug release clip and all was good. 

 

EDIT: Or do you mean you cant get it out of clips? Did you use the proper plastic car panel removal thingy?

I almost broke the whole plastic thing (not the clip, the plastic around that holds it). It bent like crazy. Not sure why I didn't use screw driver to unclip it. Crazy... Any how, after applying Tesa Textile tape around all 4 doors, its silent now. I'm surprised and at same time much happier ^^. Now the No. 1 equipment in car is Tesa Textile Tape  For rattles inside cabin = perfect fix. However I used different product than you guys have. Couldn't find the same one. 

Can't wait to start other stuff. Right now I'm prioritizing instrument cluster next is noise insulation on doors =).
 

[gigolea]

On 05.07.2018 at 10:07, alf.onso said:

 

Then it is a bit tricky as most of the Pirelly created vibration sound comes from front floor. Hood and wheel arches from the outside will have an effect but it will not solve your problem. 

Without interior panels removal you would get best result by just changing tyres. For example buy a set of Hankooks and sell your P7's as used. If your Pirellis are in good condition then you still get decent money from them. 

 

My Superb has around 10 000 km and I have dismantled most of it by now

When I bought my last car (not Superb), I started sound deadening it on the same week recieved. I was just holding a removed interior door panel when a woman next door saw me. She went all pale and sarted gasping air and I thought she was getting a heart attack. I don't think she still finds my brain fully functional but by now she is atleast used to seeing me with some removed car part in my hand and don't freak out anymore

 

Minimum sound deadening IMHO for MK3 Superb would be:

- hood
- front floor
- doors

- B-pillar
- rear wheel arches

- boot floor

 

If you do only some of them, you get some results but you will hear even more sound from undone places 

Changing the P7’s is a must but afrer changing the tires will it do enough For reducing noise to do just the hood, will arches and the boot?

[alf.onso]

6 minutes ago, gigolea said:

Changing the P7’s is a must but afrer changing the tires will it do enough For reducing noise to do just the hood, will arches and the boot?

 

If you pick quieter tyres, then you will loose most of the low level vibration noise generated by Pirelli's. When doing the hood, you remove majority of engine and road noise that comes through windshield but the change is not huge as there aint much noise from that direction. 

Doing only wheel arches from the outside will slightly reduce low frequency vibration noises and help alot with loose stones noise and wet road noises. Mind you that doing rear wheel arches from the outside, has much bigger effect as you can cover most of the wheel arch. In front, there is point to cover only about 65% of the arch (full cover from cabin side) and it does not affect front floor vibrations.

 

After changing tyres and doing hood + wheel arches, your weekest spots would be doors and B pillars. Lots of road noise come from there.  Also you will probably start hearing more rear of the car but that you can improve by doing boot floor under the carpet and spare wheel well (without removing any panels). 

 

I would personally not be sadisfied with such solution as doors are an important part of sound deadening but then again, things you mentioned would improve the sound insulation of your car. 

By the way, sound deadening doors will also improve the music quality

 

[gigolea]

33 minutes ago, alf.onso said:

 

If you pick quieter tyres, then you will loose most of the low level vibration noise generated by Pirelli's. When doing the hood, you remove majority of engine and road noise that comes through windshield but the change is not huge as there aint much noise from that direction. 

Doing only wheel arches from the outside will slightly reduce low frequency vibration noises and help alot with loose stones noise and wet road noises. Mind you that doing rear wheel arches from the outside, has much bigger effect as you can cover most of the wheel arch. In front, there is point to cover only about 65% of the arch (full cover from cabin side) and it does not affect front floor vibrations.

 

After changing tyres and doing hood + wheel arches, your weekest spots would be doors and B pillars. Lots of road noise come from there.  Also you will probably start hearing more rear of the car but that you can improve by doing boot floor under the carpet and spare wheel well (without removing any panels). 

 

I would personally not be sadisfied with such solution as doors are an important part of sound deadening but then again, things you mentioned would improve the sound insulation of your car. 

By the way, sound deadening doors will also improve the music quality

 

This will be step 1

Doors and B pilar will be step 2

Edited 6 July, 2018 by gigolea

[nodigital]

So, another weekend, another experiment.   One of the problems I dislike about the rim & P7 setup is the low frequency rumble on rough tarmac around town at 30mph.  The rear wells limited some of the noise but the rumble and floor pan vibration was still there.   taking out the carpet in a full stripdown and silent coat on the floor would probably eliminate it but I was not up to doing that currently.

 

So, took a different approach.   I have the rubber mats installed which I figured cover a lot of the floor pan.  The rear mats extend under the seat and the front passenger up into the wheel well area.

 

So I bought a roll of 2mm mass loaded vinyl with 27db noise reduction, laid it out and drew around the flat part (not curved edges) of the mats:

 

Used the blue tool to score the outline then flexed the score and tore out the pieces - its easy to work with and tears along the deep score marks

 

This left me a set, including the centre tunnel piece

 

I also bought some 3mm foam.  Rather more ridged then expected and the adhesive was terrible.  I used Everbuild spray contact adhesive (Comes out like silly string but there's no way you'd want it spraying on you... Tip, use gloves for this, its very strong) to spray one side and then apply from an edge and roller down as the rest was applied.  Once its made contact its damn hard to lift off.   Note I cut out where the holes are for the mat mounts so it fits over the whole plastic piece, not the peg.   I didnt calculate the width so the upper right bit was a bit too big and I had to stick an offcut to the side.   Note the layout is for the foam isolator to be facing up.

The tunnel piece needs diagonal slits to make it sit properly on the rear top parts of the tunnel.

 

Here's the composite structure.

 

With the deadening mat in place it fits flush:

 

And the mat sits back flat

 

So, question is did it work?   Well, it seems to have reduce the vibration and rumble.  Now my son complains about the loud rattle in the passenger door which is noticeable more now.   On the rough tarmac sections its nowhere near as loud as it was.

 

I need to do some further db meter tests to ensure its not bias thinking but as far as I can tell, its made a positive difference.

 

[alf.onso]

Clever approach @nodigital !

 

Covering metal panels with vibration mats have more effect on vibration elimination but your way of using mass loaded vinyl works a bit similar. MLV is heavy and when a metal panel vibrates, it must also move MVL's mass. It is definately not as effective as vibration mat in terms of vibration but it surely helps some. The main gain from your solution is that both MLV and 3mm foam you used absorb sound. MLV should absorb best around frequencies 100 to 3500 Hz and foam from 300 Hz to higher. So your solution gives pretty good result noise wise. 

 

Avarage vibration mats work best in frequency range 20-400 Hz. I think that rough tarmac noises do not go very low and they might start from 80-ish Hz or so? So your solution should help a lot.

 

Good work!

[Puuriit]

Decided to take the path towards silence, started with doors and bonnet. The result was impressive - doors are now silent while driving (before that you could hear the road noise and cars passing by) and the music is clear and crisp.  

 

 

A few tips from my side: 

 

1. Start with removing the window switch panel, if you take the door card off before doing so removing the connectors will be a pita. 

2. Wear light gloves otherwise your hands will look like of a junkie (cuts and bruises)

 

Will be doing the rear arches, boot floor and tailgate next. 

 

Edited 8 July, 2018 by Puuriit

[Puuriit]

Time spent on the work: 

 

Front driver door - 1,5h (I started with this so learning is included in the time, it is also the most difficult one from all 4)

Front passenger door - 1h (this is realistic after you know how things are done)

Rear doors - 40-45 min. each

Bonnet - 30 min.

 

It depends of course how seriously you plan to do it. I did two layers on the outer skin (2mm STP Aero + 10mm STP Accent), 1 layer on the inner skin (STP Aero 2mm) and 1 layer on the plastic door card (STP Biplast 10mm). On the bonnet I also did two layers (2mm STP Aero + 10mm STP Accent). 

 

The tools you will need - T25 Torx, 10mm spanner, plastic trim removal tools, sound deadening roller. 

[BriskodaJeff]

First of all, kudos to the guys who are going to such efforts to get to a silent cabin. Really impressive work. For those (like me) who aren't prepared to undertake this kind of surgery but who want their cars a bit quieter, there is an easy way to remove a fair amount of the creaks and groans you might hear at this time of the year. Treat all of the rubber seals with rubber care (most of the products seem to be German so Google "gummi pfleger"). It will reduce or remove at least some of the noises you hear when going over speed bumps or turning at slow speed. 

 

To be clear it will not fix everything - far from it. It won't help at all with road noise for example. But it is a ten-minute job and it will almost certainly make things a bit quieter at slow speed than if you haven't done it. Sorry if this was off-topic, now back to the people who know what they are talking about .

[MartiniB]

yesterday i followed @Enriquez's instructions, and forget about this small detail:

On 04/07/2018 at 21:32, Enriquez said:

Put a little teflon between plastic and roof...

it's important one!!!
a small squeak when pushing front left side still here :(
that comes from the holder of roof cover.
i didn't found right amount of power to able remove it and insert something between.

but i found one new, here unlisted, source of plastic clack

 

 

[Enriquez]

Superb is one big squeak