55 minutes ago, digifish said:

Under bonnet pic...

Thank you so much  for detailed reply.

another reason why you used this particular brand over some local ?

Here's a quick tutorial on the clips ...

 

 

 

Edited 6 May, 20197 yr by digifish

30 minutes ago, New2018 said:

Thank you so much  for detailed reply.

another reason why you used this particular brand over some local ?

 

I liked the appearance of the black Noico. Since it will be visible in the boot, when you go for the spare tyre, I decided it would be nice to have black rather than silver. It also means I can use black Gaffa tape to cover any seams (where sometimes there can be a sticky edge).

 

The sheets are also larger than most, and so you don't need to do so much piecing together. More flexibility for cutting large shapes.

Edited 6 May, 20197 yr by digifish

Just now, digifish said:

 

I liked the appearance of the black Noico. Since it will be visible in the boot, when you go for the spare tyre, I decided it would be nice to have black rather than silver. 

 

The sheets are also larger than most, and so you don't need to do so much piecing together. More flexibility for cutting large shapes.

I bought from UK Dod Matt and I got to say I'm bit dissapointed because its 1.9mm (so 0.1mm less) but it feels like u need to do 2 layers on outer panels to get some real result. However 2 layers do make it sound good. However my car does sound really quieter now after doing every thing. I still get tyre noise at low speeds but it stays same at high speeds so basically you hear more wind/engine noise after 110-130km/h at higher speeds just wind noise mostly. I'm pretty happy with results, the only thing I would improve is whole car floor but that's too big for me so I gave it up. 

I do hate that I hear every bump on the road with this car though. Comparing to Audi/BMW i drove recently on Superb you literally hear every time tyre falls into hole and on Audi/BMW you mostly don't. I guess different components of suspension.... 

16 minutes ago, JackySi said:

but it feels like u need to do 2 layers on outer panels to get some real result. However 2 layers do make it sound good.

 

After the first layer you are probably getting 90% of the effect. These sheets stop the panels acting like speakers in the upper frequency range. Adding a second layer is not going to do a lot, if the original was 1.9 mm. OTOH every bit helps

 

 

 

Just now, digifish said:

 

After the first layer you are probably getting 90% of the effect. These sheets stop the panels acting like speakers in the upper frequency range. Adding a second layer is not going to do a lot, if the original was 1.9 mm. OTOH every bit helps

 

 

 

Hehe I thought so too, I just wasn't sure because effects are so small after doing things 1by1! I didn't cover 100% panel either that was also the issue. I had a lot of material left so I just did 2 layers  The factory also uses some sort of sheets to make vibrations go away, but when you close doors u can hear big difference between after market and stock. When I added second layer it added even more "deep" tone. I have to say the project was really fun! But idk if I'd ever do it again, I mean it takes a loooot of time

On 20/05/2018 at 09:32, alf.onso said:

(and pillar between the doors)

 

Hey Alfonso, any tips on the trim removal of the B Pillar covers?  Top seat belt section and lower plastic section?

 

Had a go but they were pretty tight on.

 

56 minutes ago, Steviedakota said:

Had a go but they were pretty tight on.

 

Since I will be visiting these I also had a light tug at the general area...and hoped to see someone post detailed info (or video) 

 

Purchased a trim removal kit in anticipation.

Edited 9 May, 20197 yr by digifish

I couldn't get C pillars back as they were originally, any ideas guys? It feels like top isn't well on (free space above between roof and pillar) but I checked clip (there is just one :O) and it seems fine, I don't know what to do =(.

I'm also having glow box compartment  noise and Its so annoying! Over the bumps it seems it jumps little up/down, I added some anti-vibration material where the "rubber" touches when closed, but after a while the material gets worn. So I guess original rubber is not long enough to make compartment steady. 

And lastly, the door trim is creating noises when there is heavy bass, I need to take it off again and fix that damn aluminium holder that holds the metal clip. I mean why the heck they used metal clip!!!
This car is soo full of various rattles and noises, its annoying........ I love the car but man.... 

Edited 9 May, 20197 yr by JackySi

Under bonnet today, really went to town on it as it was refreshingly easy to do. It is easily removed as described in the video posted earlier, carefull not to drop any clips into the engine bay, I put a drop sheet over the engine to catch any that fell.

 

2mm silent coat then 10mm foam, plus another layer stuck to the inside of the acoustic cover. There is loads of clearance between the cover and the metalwork.

 

Dentmasters won't thank me if I ever have a dent on the bonnet but we can cross that bridge if and when!

 

This is such as easy job I would recommend anyone going down the noise insulation route to do this first, as you will learn valuable skills with regard to shaping, cutting and fitting the silent coat.

 

Thanks to all the posters for sharing their tips, the information was invaluable.

Edited 10 May, 20197 yr by Steviedakota

1 hour ago, Steviedakota said:

Under bonnet today, really went to town on it as it was refreshingly easy to do.

 

 

Nice job

 

Indeed that's why I started here. Easy place to work. Easy to remove the OEM shield.

 

So. Driving impressions?

1 hour ago, digifish said:

So. Driving impressions?

 

Hard to tell, car was whisper before, and still is!  Marginal gains at this stage but every bit helps.

 

Doors will be next.

Can someone give me a primer on the front door-card removal, thanks?

 

 

Please correct ...

 

1. Remove the screw in the center door handle (9)

 

2. Rotate the bottom retainer (13) 90 degrees so it can pass through the slot

 

3. Pry out the window control switches and disconnect the cables (I assume you use a door trim removal tool and pop it out?) <-- This is the one that has me nervous.

 

4. run around the edges and pop all the clips (3) 

 

5. Lift the lower edge of the card away from the door and reach in behind and check for any connectors

 

6. Lift the door card vertically to separate it from the window sill etc. 

 

7. Unclip the handle mechanism?

 

... 

 

Edited 11 May, 20197 yr by digifish

3 hours ago, digifish said:

Can someone give me a primer on the front door-card removal, thanks?

 

 

Please correct ...

 

1. Remove the screw in the center door handle (9)

 

2. Rotate the bottom retainer (13) 90 degrees so it can pass through the slot

 

3. Pry out the window control switches and disconnect the cables (I assume you use a door trim removal tool and pop it out?) <-- This is the one that has me nervous.

 

4. run around the edges and pop all the clips (3) 

 

5. Lift the lower edge of the card away from the door and reach in behind and check for any connectors

 

6. Lift the door card vertically to separate it from the window sill etc. 

 

7. Unclip the handle mechanism?

 

... 

 

 

That's it. The only difference I would take out control switches first. But it doesn't matter as you wrote will work just as fine. 

1 hour ago, JackySi said:

 

That's it. The only difference I would take out control switches first. But it doesn't matter as you wrote will work just as fine. 

 

Great thanks. I assume with the window up there is room enough to get at the outer skin of the door, from what I can see, tapping about, the lowest 1/3 is the main problem.

 

Re the door controls, do you pry at the angled (front) end or the flat end (rear)? Looks like the manual is showing front?

Edited 11 May, 20197 yr by digifish

2 minutes ago, digifish said:

 

Great thanks. I assume with the window up there is room enough to get at the outer skin of the door, from what I can see, tapping about, the lowest 1/3 is the main problem.

Yes. The lowest part I some how got my hand in there (like trying to move hand little up/down, it hurt a bit to get it in all the way :D), I can't explain how, but I was able to do pretty much all the area. However, first time I was doing it I did really bad job. So I had to do it twice. 

Edited 11 May, 20197 yr by JackySi

1 hour ago, digifish said:

Re the door controls, do you pry at the angled (front) end or the flat end (rear)? Looks like the manual is showing front?

 I did the passenger side as a test. Worked from the angled end, lifted it a mm or so, then with another tool slotted it in the side sliding it in toward the door as there are two tabs holding it in. Don't try and pride it off until those two tabs have released, of you may break them. Once those two tabs are released it will lift out enough to disconnect the wire to the switch.

5 hours ago, JackySi said:

Yes. The lowest part I some how got my hand in there (like trying to move hand little up/down, it hurt a bit to get it in all the way :D), I can't explain how, but I was able to do pretty much all the area. However, first time I was doing it I did really bad job. So I had to do it twice. 

How much NVH improvement did covering the doors bring? 

10 hours ago, Steviedakota said:

 ....then with another tool slotted it in the side sliding it in toward the door as there are two tabs holding it in. 

 

You mean down either side? Door and Interior (assuming angled is rear).

Edited 12 May, 20197 yr by digifish

I also wonder if the wires are long enough to not remove any and work with the card in palace but propped away from the bottom of the door and still hooked in at the top? That is do you need to fully remove the door card to do this work?

6 hours ago, digifish said:

 

You mean down either side? Door and Interior (assuming angled is rear).

Just the interior side.

You need to detach all cables and remove fully.  There is not enough slack and its unlikely you will be able to support it and sufficiently work on the door with easy access. 

 

On the diagram, the places I found that were difficult or caused problems were

• (3) On the bottom, there are additional clips that are easy to break which hold the bottom in place.  
• (10)  Levering this out without breaking the tabs is difficult.  Out of four, I only managed a clean extract without breaking on just one, even trying different techniques.  Ironically, I thought this was the hardest thing to take off because its most visible
• (A) The crash clip is hard to remove properly and with mine, it sometimes left part of the plastic assembly attached to the door - it just slides back in place.

Follow the instructions of removing the control, popping the clips (with the correct tool), lifting upwards (Assuming all clips are released, the resistance comes from the crash clip.    When loose, look for the cables and unclip.   Make a note of the cables and where they're located and where they are.  On one door, distractions caused me to reassemble without putting one of the cables back.  Not the best of experiences to go through it all again.

 

Check the clips within the door that hold cables.  My passenger side rattled because the factory had not fastened one on correctly.

 

Having done all the doors on my L&K I would suggest that:

• Don't go nuts on adding excessively to the doors (See earlier posts for my pics).  You won't notice any difference between some or a lot, as its all subjective anyhow.   After doing three doors and not the drivers, at no point of driving did I think "The driver's door is noisier than the others", nor as a passenger did I notice noise from the driver's side.  The doors for me are now really heavy, too much so, making them slam more
• Add a couple of sheets on the outer skin to deaden for the audio, making the door sound like its made of stone would only benefit if you're maxing your audio.
• Don't add anything on the inner skin - VAG have already done sufficient work with the push in seals that isolate sound
• Adding foam on the full door card may reduce high frequencies but the door's construction is soft enough to deaded so I doubt it has much if any benefit

When you look at all the stuff about sound deadening in doors it usually with vehicles that have much lower quality construction,  no isolation on the inner door skin.    For me, the doors gave the least benefit, if any, and I wouldn't do it again on another Superb.  Deadening in the wheel wells and boot noticeably reduced the rear noise and now it's all about road rumble which I'll attempt to address with sheets under the front floor carpets, but even then, I'm not expecting much in terms of noticeable benefit - I think the stretched length of the MQB platform combined with 19" is a bad mix.

 

So, with the doors YMMV

Thanks @ Steviedakota and nodigital

 

nodigital - So rear wheel wells were more effect than front? I was going to start on the front wheel wells as the rear was significantly improved with just 2 mm byutl mats on the boot floor.

 

I am moving to the next most noisy source at each step so I can (hopefully) notice what I did.

Edited 12 May, 20197 yr by digifish

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

7 hours ago, digifish said:

Thanks @ Steviedakota and nodigital

 

nodigital - So rear wheel wells were more effect than front? I was going to start on the front wheel wells as the rear was significantly improved with just 2 mm byutl mats on the boot floor.

 

I am moving to the next most noisy source at each step so I can (hopefully) notice what I did.

 

If you look at the front wells, they're stiff plastic, with only a small part of the chassis exposed.  The chassis is also structured differently at the front in terms of astiffness.

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/12858/new-vw-mqb-unveiled-pictures

  

The plastic arches are going to reflect all the road noise and adding stuff to them isnt going to make any difference.   Coating the inside of the front floor under the carpet may be of benefit - In mine that's where I notice the vibration, but the stiffness of the steel in that section might be such that its not affected by the additional mass (Ie, its not like a thin body panel)

 

The rears wells are a different matter, with the well arches fibre based and behind them is a metal cavern.  When you take out the fibre arch and tap around, its very hollow sounding, with echo if you clap in the arch.   After dampening then adding foam it was acoustically dead, with any noise in the arch from the tyres now suppressed as much as feasible.  Putting some mat across the boot helped but mine came with a spare wheel  so its weight changes the vibration dynamics.   If you don't have a spare, that in theory is another hollow drum.   I coated the floor liner but that was irrelevant as the fibre backing is reasonable already and the closed foam I added did nothing other than raise it by 10 mm 🙄

 

Trying to figure out where noise is coming from is a difficult matter - I like the rants of this guy, and he mostly makes sense

 

 

 

One question I keep asking is:  Take the quietest VAG car, how's that constructed by design to eliminate noise?   VAG didn't just approach the problem by sticking lots of mass onto a vehicle so there must be some techniques or choice places to make significant differences?

 

Well yes and no.

 

The plastic liners are attached to the metal work, and so will transmit high frequency vibrations to the car. They are also far from reflecting 100% of the noise. If you used that analogy then a thin plastic sheet would be all that's needed to soundproof a room.

 

Understand that VAG have been on a weight-crusade to meet EU emissions targets. Every KG matters. For example, in the boot, I can see they have attached damping material at the anti-nodes (probably based on a computer simulation looking at the strange shapes they used) which will be for specific (and most problematic) frequencies.  This will be a compromise between weight and noise. There will be a trade-off they are achieving.

 

I too have a spare tyre, and tapping around with a drumstick in the boot prior to damping (with tyre in place) there was a lot of ringing in the higher frequency range. Indeed, I am chasing course-chip high-speed road + tyre here (white noise). This stuff will transmit through sheet metal and ring throughout panels in a heartbeat. Damping my boot had a big impact on this NVH from the rear of the cabin (I was surprised to be honest). I also noticed a subtle but pleasingly noticeable reduction of engine noise from doing the Bonnet (that TSI with it's direct and port injection, makes a lot of injector noises, which you can see they have tried to tame with both the under-engine-cover damping and bonnet damping. The problem is, both are light-weight absorption pads). 

 

When I damp the front wheel wells, I am planning to put a layer of butyl over the sheet metal including the liner-panel connection points to further reduce transmission. And also some on the back of the liner where I can.

 

While I have some sympathy for Mr Audio Experts POV, that you should not rely on your ability to improve OEM noise reduction, its clear to me that manufacturers have been under pressure to reduce weight and so compromising in this area in the middle-priced segment. Also on the tyre front, fashion and industry trends are pushing them to lower and lower profiles with worse NVH. A 17" wheel is a lot better than the same equivalent 19" wheel for NVH. But when I purchased my car 19" were all that was offered, so I managed to swap to some 18" off another car at the dealership, with a noticeable improvement in thumps through the suspension. 17" would have been preferable tho.

 

 

My old 2003 Passat was significantly better NVH than this 2018 Superb. From what I can see after crawling around both, the Passat had more and heavier damping on panels than does the Superb. Where they do use it on the Skoda, its some sort of light-weight (high-density foam) material that I can't see what it is supposed to do. On the Passat it was a heavier (almost buytl-like) stuff.

 

Anyhow, I have made quite significant improvements so far, and I am sure doing the wheel wells will be enough. This will have been about $300 AUD and 20 KG well spent IMO. For me it has been a fun project to get to know my Superb better, and satisfies a maker/handyman itch you get from watching too many YouTube videos of people making stuff or working on cars

 

That is, for me, its fun and satisfying.

Edited 13 May, 20197 yr by digifish