Running in

[Shorty76]

Hi guy, apologies if this is in the wrong place but I wasn't sure where to post it!

So I've got a brand new Octavia TDI VRS with dsg gearbox.  Do I need to run it in? I asked at the garage and he said "Not really just go steady for the first few hundred miles" then I looked in the handbook and it says run it in for 1000km! What do you lot think? It's done 300 miles and I'm eager to give it a blast.

Cheers

[john999boy]

Have a look at this thread about TSI engines as I'm sure there will be a lot of info that's relevant to your new car.

[Ursicles]

Having mine delivered next Friday and just spoke with customer services and they said:

 

Thanks for waiting. I have spoken with my support team and they have advised that, while there is no official running in period as such for the engine, they do recommend that you drive it a bit carefully for the first couple of weeks just to ensure smooth operation.

[penguin17]

3/4 of the rev range for the first 600miles/1K then start to get closer to the red line from then on, when engine oil is warmed up, 100-105º+ .   I've found there's a bit of 'resistance' in new cars where it almost feels like the engine is being pushed outside it's ideal power range and doesn't want to be pushed any harder, once you get over 1k miles then try to stay on the gas a bit more and eventually this 'resistance' will fade and you'll find you have a bit more revs to play with.   

 

I would follow the manual and you won't go far wrong.  

 

Mechanical sympathy is key. You can work the engine all within it's tolerances and it's not going to cause any problems; which is totally different to driving it like a hire car. 

[Shorty76]

Thanks guys, I was told the same about just the first few weeks but wasn't convinced after looking in the manual.

I think I'll follow the manual to be safe! I don't think I've gone above 3-4000 revs so far. I'm just eager the try out sport and semi auto :-)

[Ursicles]

Also depends if you own it or rent it.

 

If you rent it, do as you please.... not yours to worry about long term

[SoupDragon]

There are two other running-in concerns, the tyres and the brakes. The tyres definitely need to be treated gently for at least 200 miles to get rid of the mould release. It's been dry here for sometime but new tyres can be frightening in wet weather. Also the brakes take a few 100 miles before they reach their best. I guess the pads have to match into the surface of the discs before you get full stopping ability. I had a diesel Yaris once and the fuel consumption kept on improving for the first 7,000 miles, so something was gradually changing/improving in the engine for a long time. I don't know if petrol engines need so long to bed in fully.

[brettikivi]

mine did...it got consistently better over the first 20k km. From 6.5 to 5.4 l/100 is a significant improvement.

 

Agreed on take it easy for the first 1000miles. I'd try and keep it under 3k rpm, vary speeds (minimal cruise use or at least don't drop it to the same speed all the time, or you'll end up with a flat spot!) and roads and go get it out for some time. Get used to it. Let it warm through and don't give it the full beans. After 800miles or so start using more revs and then slowly bring your personal rev limit up. I don't boot it fully or over 4k until oil temp is visible on the dash, i.e. >50C. I'd like my turbo to survive some time, please

 

The Fi we have is mainly driven by my wife at low speeds, gears and revs. It positively hates being pushed past 4k rpm. My father's Fabia 1.2 is the same. Neither took the time to push the revs when the engine was warm... my car is fine and sings all the way to the red line. 

 

 - Bret

[themanwithnoaim]

I rent my cars so.....

I drive them like I just stole them

1st day, last day, everyday

[shyVRS245]

5 hours ago, SoupDragon said:

There are two other running-in concerns, the tyres and the brakes. The tyres definitely need to be treated gently for at least 200 miles to get rid of the mould release. It's been dry here for sometime but new tyres can be frightening in wet weather. Also the brakes take a few 100 miles before they reach their best. I guess the pads have to match into the surface of the discs before you get full stopping ability. I had a diesel Yaris once and the fuel consumption kept on improving for the first 7,000 miles, so something was gradually changing/improving in the engine for a long time. I don't know if petrol engines need so long to bed in fully.

My petrol Octy is getting more economical now it's over 10,000 miles (16,000km). Wife's petrol Karoq improved significantly once it reached 3,000 miles and will nudge 60mpg it's reached 5,000 miles.

[Gerrycan]

12 hours ago, SoupDragon said:

There are two other running-in concerns, the tyres and the brakes. The tyres definitely need to be treated gently for at least 200 miles to get rid of the mould release. It's been dry here for sometime but new tyres can be frightening in wet weather. Also the brakes take a few 100 miles before they reach their best. I guess the pads have to match into the surface of the discs before you get full stopping ability. I had a diesel Yaris once and the fuel consumption kept on improving for the first 7,000 miles, so something was gradually changing/improving in the engine for a long time. I don't know if petrol engines need so long to bed in fully.

My brakes always get treated gently so I can't add anything on that aspect but agree about tyres. I recently replaced worn Dunlop (which I had been very happy with) with some well priced Michelin Primacy and initially I was very worried I had made a huge mistake as the handling, ride and very light steering on the new tyres were all just plain weird.

Huge steering improvements over the initial 100km as the contact surface roughened but it has taken longer for the handling and ride to settle in to satisfactory levels. 

I also found the original Dunlop  characteristics changed over their life and I ran them at increasingly higher pressures to maintain their feel and performance.

Makes me a bit suspicious about some of the results published by large scale comparison tests that abound on the net and in publications as they would all be brand new tyres.

I cannot comment on relative braking and/or wet weather performance.

[lol-lol]

19 hours ago, Shorty76 said:

Hi guy, apologies if this is in the wrong place but I wasn't sure where to post it!

So I've got a brand new Octavia TDI VRS with dsg gearbox.  Do I need to run it in? I asked at the garage and he said "Not really just go steady for the first few hundred miles" then I looked in the handbook and it says run it in for 1000km! What do you lot think? It's done 300 miles and I'm eager to give it a blast.

Cheers

 

Since you have DSG it will decide what gear to use unless you have in manual selection mode.

 

It is actually more important to use light throttle rather than lower revs.  Let it rev through a bit on light throttle is fine in my view.

 

Not easy when it revs to 6.5k revs and does 34 mph per 1,000 revs so in 7th gear I would be well over 200 mph if one could get there, tailing hurricane or whatever.

 

Hence it can be argued one is better off in sports mode than eco mode as it usually means higher revs/gear but just keep the throttle light.

 

I would say 1500 kms rather than only 1,000 kms and gradually  a couple more seconds at half, then three quarters then full throttle as one approaches 1500 kms.

 

[wilbert77]

Don't labour a new engine or sit at a constant speed / revs for a long period. Drive it as normal as you can from day one once it is up to temp and don't be afraid to accelerate hard and take the revs up to the limiter. You want the high spots on the bore, piston, bearings etc to wear. Personally and from experience I would say that the timing of the first oil change is what you want to focus on. Diesels take longer to free up as they don't rev as high and the fuel is also a good lubricant.

[Gabbo]

As you can see everyone has an opinion on this which is very different.
For me, with modern engines, high machining tolérances & measured & matched components in the engine theres no need for a real run-in period, so just drive it like you normally would.

You should do nothing special in the first 100km, 1000km or 10000km than you wouldnt also for the rest of the vehicles life.

 

 

And remember it wasnt engineered by Subaru so theres no need to leave your car idling for 20minutes after starting & when stopped  to let the turbo cool down!

[Ursicles]

Im just gonna drive it as i would do any car ... if it goes pop its under warranty

[SWBoy]

25 minutes ago, Gabbo said:

For me, with modern engines, high machining tolérances & measured & matched components in the engine theres no need for a real run-in period,

How do you explain that mpg improves after 5000miles, 10000miles? Surely this is because friction losses (and hence heat generation) reduce as the engine & powertrain bed-in?

 

As an engineer I agree totally that machining standards and tolerances have improved enormously but still believe that the evidence is there that engines do still need time for all the hundreds of components that they are made of to "get used to each other" and hence some form of more gentle use of the engine (call it running-in if you like) is a good idea. Not so gentle that you cause the bores to get polished but certainly not Italian tune driving.

Edited 5 July, 2018 by SWBoy

[Ursicles]

On M cars, you HAVE to have a running in service at 1200 miles otherwise car is pretty much unsellable in future, and for those 1200 miles they are pretty strict on the revs etc.

 

Brother in law bought a new 440 GC last week, asked about running in period and was told there wasnt one and just drive it normally.

[Russ77]

I've only ever owned one brand new car, it was an X-reg Focus 1.8 petrol.

 

No official running in period but I took it a little easier for the first 500 miles, didn't rev much past 4k if I could help it, avoided harsh/late braking etc.

 

I know you *should* be able to get in a new car and drive it like you stole it from the word go but as others have said, just having new brakes or tyres fitted, they take a little while to be in and become 100% effective so that's at least one consideration.

 

If you've invested a large chunk of money in something, why risk smashing it up because they brakes aren't working efficiently or tyres aren't scrubbed in?

 

Not only that, the engine will be tight for a while, we know this as it can take a few thousand miles before it so surely it makes sense just to take it a little easy for a few hundred miles and make sure it's all bolted together properly, mechanical sympathy if you like

[MattChr]

I followed guidance similar to @penguin17  for my tsi - after 600 miles starting to rev it but gently, keep engine guessing with mix of "d" and manual override with flappy paddles. Took until 3000 miles to feel smoother with less tight spots.

Reached 8000 miles and 1yr now, revs freely, quickly, improving fuel consumption and zero oil consumption. And I enjoy occasional, appropriate full throttle ;-)

[Gerrycan]

5 hours ago, SWBoy said:

How do you explain that mpg improves after 5000miles, 10000miles? Surely this is because friction losses (and hence heat generation) reduce as the engine & powertrain bed-in?

The thing is that I have not experienced any real improvement in fuel economy over time from new on a variety of petrol and diesel engine vehicles.

We have quite a few flat highways around Adelaide and I like to get reference consumption/speed points in repeatable circumstances as soon as possible.

Low 20's temps, no wind and not tailgating other traffic.  And I have not identified any discernable improvements with increasing mileage.

However, general consumption can improve over time as I have learnt how to best use an engine's particular characteristics.

Logically you would expect to see any improvements in constant speed consumption to be more obvious at  low speeds when component friction has the most effect rather than at higher speeds where aero resistance dominates.

Edited 5 July, 2018 by Gerrycan

[Gabbo]

6 hours ago, SWBoy said:

How do you explain that mpg improves after 5000miles, 10000miles? Surely this is because friction losses (and hence heat generation) reduce as the engine & powertrain bed-in?

 

I wasnt trying to saythat there isnt any engine/vehicle bed-in over the first few hundred/thousand kilometers rather that the way you drive the car during this time makes little difference to it.

It will occur naturally & isnt the huge grinding of metal from engines 30 years ago.

 

As with GerryCan, In my 03 I haven't seen a change in the fuel economy since I collected the car & the best fuel economy I've had for a long trip was actually on the 2nd week of owning the car.

As I cover ~45k km per year, mainly on the highway with cruise control I passed 1000km & 10kkm fairly quickly perhaps this has an influence.

 

I'd also agree with his view that the driver is one of the main influencers of overall fuel economy & I think the driver getting used to the car, engine, Accelerator pedal feel, gearing, coasting, engine braking etc etc can be significant.

Dont forget there are also seasonable factors if it takes for example 6months to drive 10k km then you have summer/Winter fuel/tyres, single/double digit ambient températures to take into account etc.

I see aroung 5mpg difference between winter & summer economy for example when looking at my long-term fuelly data.

 

 

[themanwithnoaim]

1 hour ago, Gerrycan said:

The thing is that I have not experienced any real improvement in fuel economy over time from new 

No, neither have I Gerry !!!

[SWBoy]

2 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

The thing is that I have not experienced any real improvement in fuel economy over time from new on a variety of petrol and diesel engine vehicles.

That's 100% the opposite of my experience, every new car I've owned over the last 38 years (I bought my first new car in 1980) has improved the mpg quite noticeably over the first 10,000 miles or so and then levelled off. That covers everything from a 1 litre 3 cylinder through to a 4.2 litre V8, none of which I drove gently AFTER the first 1000 miles.

 

The most miles I've put on a new car is 80,000 and the fuel economy stayed pretty much the same from 10,000 miles onwards.

[ChoonDoode]

3 things to be bedded in properly; engine (modern engines have such tight tolerances), tyres (usually get them scrubbed in within 100 miles) and the brakes (high temperatures on new discs and pads causes no end of problems)

 

My dealer advised me for the first 500 miles to drive it gently, so all the parts get seated together properly.

 

The next 500 miles make sure the engine temperatures are all up before driving it with some enthusiasm..................and after a 1000 miles, the break in is done.

 

I did notice when I first got the car, the engine braking was severe, but a few thousand miles it was as normal. The mpg did rise as well.

[flybynite]

Older engines certainly did better when they 'loosened-up' it was that short sweet-spot before they started burning oil and needing a de-coke. I am surprised at how many newer generation engines that seems to apply to as well.

 

If I had not seen it myself I would not have believed it but the economy on mine jumped 3-4mpg almost over night when it hit a certain mileage (off the top of my head cant remember what it was) same run, same conditions, same driving style, same fuel. Backed up by brimming the tanks before and after. The increase in MPG continues to this day. Very curious indeed, not easily explained.

 

As far as running in is concerned I do what I do and don't apologise to anyone for it, they are my engines, I've often built them, I keep my cars, and at worst it is unnecessary. I avoid 2 things, 'labouring' and 'thrashing'. I avoid them by more of a margin when the engine is cold.

 

'Labouring' is unfortunately what you get when some people drive them 'gently' and IMHO can do as much, if not more damage than 'thrashing'. High gear, low revs, foot down puts a lot of strain on the engine. Difficult on a DSG because that is what it does in D (as I found out) In 'S' it tends to do the 'thrashing' thing which is why I did a lot of the first 500 miles in manual.

 

'Thrashing' is that bit of the top of the rev range where anyone with any mechanical sympathy starts to wince. Some engines never sound like they are thrashing and would sit at top revs all day, some sound like it anything above idle. Most get there about 80% -90% of the rev range. That change in noise is telling you something, it is the bits in the engine starting to lose their nice controlled motion and not what I want when the engine is new.

 

Is it necessary?, well the engines are indeed made to tighter tolerances, but they are expected to do more and have higher stresses, some engine designs may benefit more than others. You can still get variations in the same engine, an engine that has a combination of acceptable tolerances that are at the extreme and work against each other (a Friday engine) It may need it more than a 'Monday' engine. It is impossible to tell for sure without breaking them down and measuring them. They may have had a short 'thrashing' on to the boat, no reason to carry it on for 500-1000 miles though?

 

That is what I do and more importantly why, people can take it or leave it, but FWIW I have never had a new or rebuilt engine use oil and it is not an unheard of problem in modern engines including the VAG world