On 02/10/2018 at 04:36, StealthRS245 said:

I read somewhere that the upgrades from standard for the 245 is a different turbo (or maybe just turbine wheel?), Inlet manifold and injectors. As usual I could be quite wrong 

Have read and heard that in reviews on the 245 aswell

On 02/10/2018 at 08:57, shyVRS245 said:

In my own experience the 1.8 gave 230bhp at stage 1 whereas my 2.0 gave 302bhp.

LOL just LOL

I doubt any changes to the 245 turbo were needed to get it to 245 from 230.  Is the 190 really Miller cycle? I would have thought that would have had more press coverage if so. Mind you from a quick search none of the magazines have tested it yet.

Edited 8 April, 20197 yr by juan27

14 hours ago, juan27 said:

 Is the 190 really Miller cycle? I would have thought that would have had more press coverage if so. Mind you from a quick search none of the magazines have tested it yet.

 

Not a mag car test, but this article gives some info: https://www.automobilemag.com/news/inside-volkswagen-ea888-b-cycle-2-0-tsi-i4/

So the 190 has variable cam timing to achieve this Budack Cycle for increased efficiency. It does sound like a very different beast than the existing 2.0 TSi.

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/05/20150514-gen3b.html

Edited 9 April, 20197 yr by juan27

As I said in  the other thread, the new 2.0 has more differences than first seems. The compression ratio it uses is going to make it difficult to do much to the engine in the same way it has been done in the past before running into issues. It is going to be very sensitive to changes.

 

The compression ratio is rarely seen in a forced induction engine. You are not going to be able to increase boost very far without lowering that compression ratio.

 

Which turbo it has is somewhat academic but I thought is was a new turbo similar in size to the IS12 or even smaller. The turbo was described as 'more responsive (read smaller) than previous'

 

For what it is designed for, however, it looks like a promising engine

On 02/10/2018 at 07:57, shyVRS245 said:

In my own experience the 1.8 gave 230bhp at stage 1 whereas my 2.0 gave 302bhp.

 

I believe if you replace the IS12 the 1.8 does considerably better at stage 1

On 08/04/2019 at 08:52, juan27 said:

I doubt any changes to the 245 turbo were needed to get it to 245 from 230.  

 

My 19 plate 245 is much faster than my Pre FL 230. The 245 seems to pull like a scalded cat from a standing start all the way to 35000rpm then goes even quicker.

It's only got 15 bhp more but the 245 delivers the power in a completely different way.

The master tech at the dealers told me the Turbo is different from the 230, It has bigger injectors and a different fuel pump.

 

True or not, who knows

 

 

 

Edited 9 April, 20197 yr by Auric Goldfinger

15 minutes ago, flybynite said:

 

I believe if you replace the IS12 the 1.8 does considerably better at stage 1

 

Then it's not stage 1 surely?  Definition of S1 is stock everything and a safe tune to gain a powers and torques and improve the delivery.  Stage2+ is for number hunting with further changes....like the turbo.

7 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

Then it's not stage 1 surely?  Definition of S1 is stock everything and a safe tune to gain a powers and torques and improve the delivery.  Stage2+ is for number hunting with further changes....like the turbo.

Yes you are right, but I am talking about only using the stock turbo the 2.0 uses at stage 1. That yields an increase with none of the other hardware modifications generally used above stage 1.

 

My point is power out of the 2.0 B-Cycle engine will be harder to come by because of the combination of cylinder head design and compression ratio. I can't see putting a larger turbo on this engine working as well as the standard Gen3 engines. Tuning it is proving to be tricky, some engines just don't like it.

 

I am simply saying making this an Octy equivalent of a Golf R may not be as simple as it first seems.

I got a 2.0 TSI 190 on order   but there's no way I'd ever get the thing tuned or remapped.

Was interesting reading about the new design.

Can anyone confirm if the valve timing is variable or not? That could account for your kick above 3k5 rpm. 

1 hour ago, Auric Goldfinger said:

 

My 19 plate 245 is much faster than my Pre FL 230. The 245 seems to pull like a scalded cat from a standing start all the way to 35000rpm then goes even quicker.

It's only got 15 bhp more but the 245 delivers the power in a completely different way.

The master tech at there dealers told me the Turbo is different from the 230, It has bigger injectors and a different fuel pump.

 

True or not, who knows

 

 

 

Duh, we did try to tell you but, all you kept on about was fugly lights!!!

1 hour ago, TDIum said:

Can anyone confirm if the valve timing is variable or not?

 

Yes, but I believe only on the intake side. Gains from variable exhaust valve timing are not that great anyway.

2 hours ago, TDIum said:

I got a 2.0 TSI 190 on order   but there's no way I'd ever get the thing tuned or remapped.

Was interesting reading about the new design.

Can anyone confirm if the valve timing is variable or not? That could account for your kick above 3k5 rpm. 

 

I don't think the 245 has variable valve timing at all. It's the 190 that has it and it's for efficiency not extra power. Traditionally only the Audi version of the 2.0 had variable cam timing. Could be wrong of course.

Does anyone know if it.s possible to change the lit up eye brows in the front light clusters to a different colour.

 

I'm thinking Blue................ 

5 hours ago, flybynite said:

As I said in  the other thread, the new 2.0 has more differences than first seems. The compression ratio it uses is going to make it difficult to do much to the engine in the same way it has been done in the past before running into issues. It is going to be very sensitive to changes.

 

The compression ratio is rarely seen in a forced induction engine. You are not going to be able to increase boost very far without lowering that compression ratio.

 

Which turbo it has is somewhat academic but I thought is was a new turbo similar in size to the IS12 or even smaller. The turbo was described as 'more responsive (read smaller) than previous'

 

For what it is designed for, however, it looks like a promising engine

 

I don't pretend to fully understand the B cycle but I think it has the effect of lowering the effective CR - but I agree remapping this engine may be a whole new ball game.

6 minutes ago, juan27 said:

 

I don't pretend to fully understand the B cycle but I think it has the effect of lowering the effective CR - but I agree remapping this engine may be a whole new ball game.

 

What it does is similar to the miller cycle in that through inlet timing it reduces the air/fuel volume (reducing CR) but retains a higher expansion ratio by normal exhaust timing.  They can then increase the apparent volumetric CR (longer stroke) to further benefit from the cycle.  This is one of the reasons they are harder map as increasing the boost you usually dont want a mega high CR to allow for more air/fuel.

 

Have I made sense or am I babling?

Video on how it works here....

 

All EA888 and EA211 engines have variable cam timing, achieved using cam phasers (aka variators) mounted on the drive end of the camshafts. They are shifted hydraulically, controlled by a solenoid which diverts oil to the two chambers in each phaser to advance or retard their relative positions. These cam phasers have been around since the engines were launched. The phasers allow varying the inlet/exhaust valve overlap which is a way of achieving in head EGR, and eliminating the need for an EGR valve.

 

The difference with gen 3b is the addition of ACT as fitted to the 1.4 and 1.5tsi 150ps ACT engines, but instead of ACT solenoids switching in a zero cam profile to close down the centre 2 cylinders, ACT solenoids switch in a "Budack" cam profile on all cylinders. This is a different cam profile that has both lower valve lift and late/early valve opening to emulate Miller type operation of asymmetric compression/expansion ratio.

 

Budack cams are only engaged at low power demand and a over certain rev band. When more power/torque is required, the ACT switches back seamlessly to a standard OTTO cam profile.

 

The same system of switching cam profiles is used in the low power 130ps 1.5tsi found in the Golf blue motion, except VW call that a Miller engine.

 

Hope this helps you understand.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, flybynite said:

 

I believe if you replace the IS12 the 1.8 does considerably better at stage 1

My Mk1 had the standard turbo and always use Shell V-Power so when standard produced 190bhp and 193lb/ft on the dyno. Remap gave 230lb/ft but bit down on my Mk3 which now has 380lb/ft at stage 2.

7 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

Then it's not stage 1 surely?  Definition of S1 is stock everything and a safe tune to gain a powers and torques and improve the delivery.  Stage2+ is for number hunting with further changes....like the turbo.

The turbo should still be standard at stage 2 like my current car. Stage 3 is when people start bolting bigger turbo's on to gain another 50-60bhp.