Don't use poly dog-bone mount bushes...

[FabiaGonzales]

So a while ago, i was getting pretty bad engine rocking (sounded like the engine was going to drop out whenever the wheels spun up), and combined with my inexperience with how NVH works, i had the large rubber bush on the dogbone mount replaced with a poly one, the original had split and was allowing almost free movement back and forth.

This was a huge hassle as the mount was damn near impossible to install with the new bush in place. Eventually i got it in.

Instantly, huge vibrations at idle and below 2k rpm, but by heck the gear changes became absolutely beautiful and buttery smooth!

Over time the mount bedded in and suchlike, it almost completely eliminated the wheel hop banging, now it just shuddered when the wheels slipped. I then noticed a slight split in the gearbox mount (the famous one known to squeak or fail), and replaced that with an OEM one designed for diesels, wheel hop completely gone! The wheels just slip and screech.

The new gearbox mount also very slightly reduced the amount of vibrations that were going through the car, but after some time, i was given an OEM dogbone mount which like the replacement gearbox one, was designed for diesels. I fitted it...

No wheel hop... No banging like the engine would fall out... and best of all... absolutely NO vibrations at idle! Clutch and gear changes are ever so slightly odd feeling, but i guess they will until i get used to it again, nowhere near as bad as original though.

 

I have a feeling this was caused by the fact the bush is so large it was clamped too much by the subframe, restricting its movement too much. Below is a picture of the mount in question. The original black bracket must be used as the one for the diesels is slightly different.

 

 

TLDR,;

 

Don't put poly bushes in the dog-bone mount!

 

Instead replace the gearbox mount and the dog-bone mount with the diesel counterparts;

 

Diesel Gearbox Mount: 6Q0 199 555 AS (AR is original petrol one)

Diesel Dog-bone Mount: 6Q0 199 851 AP (AS is original petrol one)

[eyalasd]

Tnx for the detailed review! where did you buy the diesel parts?

Edited 6 May, 2019 by eyalasd

[JAMMYZ]

On 26/04/2019 at 20:35, FabiaGonzales said:

Diesel Gearbox Mount: 6Q0 199 555 AS (AR is original petrol one)

Diesel Dog-bone Mount: 6Q0 199 851 AP (AS is original petrol one)

 

 

Hi, are the above codes for the 1.2TSI or 1.0TSI? 

[FabiaGonzales]

44 minutes ago, JAMMYZ said:

 

 

Hi, are the above codes for the 1.2TSI or 1.0TSI? 

 

They are from the 1.2.

 

The 1.0 has the same gearbox mount, though i can't say about the dog bone mount.

 

Ring your dealer and ask them to find the part number for you for the dog-bone mount. Theyre usually pretty helpful for that (if nothing else). 

 

As long as your current part is like 6Q0 199 851 xx, it doesn't matter what the xx is, as long as the rest matches, it will fit.

 

The diesel dogbone i had was from a 1.6 or 1.9 TDi (cant remember), and the bracket that joins the small end of the dogbone to the gearbox was different. That's easy enough to swap across though, 1 bolt.

 

The diesel gearbox mount on its own is a big improvement in reducing wheel hop and sloppiness, with the support of a diesel dogbone mount, it almost entirely eliminated wheel hop (occasionally still gets a little bit but thats usually caused by crap roads).

 

If you wanna go real ham, buy vibra technics mounts. Theyre completely redesigned mounts. Youll get a little more vibrations though, but gear shifts and everything are beautifully smooth and precise. Very good mounts, i'll be going that route later this year. Bit skint right now though 😕

 

Do NOT go poly though, poly is fine for suspension bushes, NOT for engine mounts! The whole car vibrates like you're sat in the engine bay with the engine!

[JAMMYZ]

6 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

They are from the 1.2.

 

The 1.0 has the same gearbox mount, though i can't say about the dog bone mount.

 

Ring your dealer and ask them to find the part number for you for the dog-bone mount. Theyre usually pretty helpful for that (if nothing else). 

 

As long as your current part is like 6Q0 199 851 xx, it doesn't matter what the xx is, as long as the rest matches, it will fit.

 

The diesel dogbone i had was from a 1.6 or 1.9 TDi (cant remember), and the bracket that joins the small end of the dogbone to the gearbox was different. That's easy enough to swap across though, 1 bolt.

 

The diesel gearbox mount on its own is a big improvement in reducing wheel hop and sloppiness, with the support of a diesel dogbone mount, it almost entirely eliminated wheel hop (occasionally still gets a little bit but thats usually caused by crap roads).

 

If you wanna go real ham, buy vibra technics mounts. Theyre completely redesigned mounts. Youll get a little more vibrations though, but gear shifts and everything are beautifully smooth and precise. Very good mounts, i'll be going that route later this year. Bit skint right now though 😕

 

Do NOT go poly though, poly is fine for suspension bushes, NOT for engine mounts! The whole car vibrates like you're sat in the engine bay with the engine!

 

Thank you,

 

I found this upper engine mount on eBay, happy with the manufacturer and evidence this is the correct one... would you agree?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302378036147

 

 

Also found the same manufacturer for dog bone mount.. but unsure if it’s correct, it is the part number you’ve given but it says polo 9n which is a 2002 polo (I had one) - does this look right to you?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173629432646

 

 

Thanks again

 

[Kenrw8]

I changed mine on my Fabia 1.2 TSI 60 reg lower engine mont polybushed about 18 month ago.

 Found the car shook at idle , though less with the Aircon off.

Cured the vibration when had the car remapped, idle was 700 , 600 with Aircon, had changed to 850 at idle without Aircon, now 750 with aircon.

Edited 4 July, 2019 by Kenrw8

[Tech1e]

They also give after a while and bed in. The red bushes for diesel applications (from Powerflex) are a little kinder. 

 

With a purple bush in my Fabia and the alloy inserts replacing the bushes on the gear selector bracket it’s a noticeable difference on the gear change. 

[FabiaGonzales]

5 hours ago, JAMMYZ said:

 

Thank you,

 

I found this upper engine mount on eBay, happy with the manufacturer and evidence this is the correct one... would you agree?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302378036147

 

 

Also found the same manufacturer for dog bone mount.. but unsure if it’s correct, it is the part number you’ve given but it says polo 9n which is a 2002 polo (I had one) - does this look right to you?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173629432646

 

 

Thanks again

 

 

 

I used LEMFORDER parts.

Gearbox: https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/lemforder-1268358.html

Dogbone: https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/lemforder-7019805.html

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kenrw8 said:

I changed mine on my Fabia 1.2 TSI 60 reg lower engine mont polybushed about 18 month ago.

 Found the car shook at idle , though less with the Aircon off.

Cured the vibration when had the car remapped, idle was 700 , 600 with Aircon, had changed to 850 at idle without Aircon, now 750 with aircon.

 

I was not willing to spend possibly upward of £300, plus the increase in insurance, simply to cure the vibration while idling, the vibrations were pretty bad all the way from 750 up to 1150 rpm for me, the only point where it was somewhat quiet was at 650 when aircon was off.

 

1 hour ago, Tech1e said:

They also give after a while and bed in. The red bushes for diesel applications (from Powerflex) are a little kinder. 

 

With a purple bush in my Fabia and the alloy inserts replacing the bushes on the gear selector bracket it’s a noticeable difference on the gear change. 

 

I'm sure if the design of the bush was better, they could be a viable alternative, even using a red diesel bush, it was jsut that bit too harsh for me.

 

The design of the bush is quite poor, the only place the subframe is meant to contact, is the metal part in the center, but because the bush was so thick, it was clamped in there like a sandwich, effectively reducing the amount of gap between metal-metal to like 10mm, rather than 25mm from center to mount.

 

I still have the red-deisel bush inside the old dogbone from my car, if anyone wants it..

[JAMMYZ]

9 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

 

I used LEMFORDER parts.

Gearbox: https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/lemforder-1268358.html

Dogbone: https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/lemforder-7019805.html

 

 

 

I think I'll buy these, better priced and 2 years warranty is a peace of mind. The dogbone mount says automatic transmission though, is that still ok for me as mine is a manual?

 

 

EDIT: ok looks like auto trans and manual dogbone mounts are the same. I have found the FEBI Bilstein parts on that site at about £20 cheaper in total so have ordered those. Many thanks for the help.

Edited 4 July, 2019 by JAMMYZ

[cm9876]

On 26/04/2019 at 20:35, FabiaGonzales said:

So a while ago, i was getting pretty bad engine rocking (sounded like the engine was going to drop out whenever the wheels spun up), and combined with my inexperience with how NVH works, i had the large rubber bush on the dogbone mount replaced with a poly one, the original had split and was allowing almost free movement back and forth.

This was a huge hassle as the mount was damn near impossible to install with the new bush in place. Eventually i got it in.

Instantly, huge vibrations at idle and below 2k rpm, but by heck the gear changes became absolutely beautiful and buttery smooth!

Over time the mount bedded in and suchlike, it almost completely eliminated the wheel hop banging, now it just shuddered when the wheels slipped. I then noticed a slight split in the gearbox mount (the famous one known to squeak or fail), and replaced that with an OEM one designed for diesels, wheel hop completely gone! The wheels just slip and screech.

The new gearbox mount also very slightly reduced the amount of vibrations that were going through the car, but after some time, i was given an OEM dogbone mount which like the replacement gearbox one, was designed for diesels. I fitted it...

No wheel hop... No banging like the engine would fall out... and best of all... absolutely NO vibrations at idle! Clutch and gear changes are ever so slightly odd feeling, but i guess they will until i get used to it again, nowhere near as bad as original though.

 

I have a feeling this was caused by the fact the bush is so large it was clamped too much by the subframe, restricting its movement too much. Below is a picture of the mount in question. The original black bracket must be used as the one for the diesels is slightly different.

 

 

TLDR,;

 

Don't put poly bushes in the dog-bone mount!

 

Instead replace the gearbox mount and the dog-bone mount with the diesel counterparts;

 

Diesel Gearbox Mount: 6Q0 199 555 AS (AR is original petrol one)

Diesel Dog-bone Mount: 6Q0 199 851 AP (AS is original petrol one)

i get terrible hammering wheel hop when taking off quickly.

 

How difficult is it to change these mounts?

[FabiaGonzales]

52 minutes ago, cm9876 said:

i get terrible hammering wheel hop when taking off quickly.

 

How difficult is it to change these mounts?

The dogbone mount is a peice of cake, hardest thing for me was the fact i have no axle stands so all i had was a brick under each wheel to gain enough clearance and still barely had enough room to get under.

 

The gearbox mount needs the battery removing, battery tray removed, engine needs supporting from underneath the gearbox, replace the mount, done. Found it a bit of a pain to line the holes back up when putting it back together.

 

Can't remember what the torque values were off hand.

[cm9876]

On 21/05/2020 at 19:08, FabiaGonzales said:

The dogbone mount is a peice of cake, hardest thing for me was the fact i have no axle stands so all i had was a brick under each wheel to gain enough clearance and still barely had enough room to get under.

 

The gearbox mount needs the battery removing, battery tray removed, engine needs supporting from underneath the gearbox, replace the mount, done. Found it a bit of a pain to line the holes back up when putting it back together.

 

Can't remember what the torque values were off hand.

Don't think I'll be doing them for a while 😭

[Andymod]

2 hours ago, cm9876 said:

Don't think I'll be doing them for a while 😭

 

OMG are you ok. That looks bad

[FabiaGonzales]

7 hours ago, cm9876 said:

Don't think I'll be doing them for a while 😭

Sheeeeeez hope everyone's ok, what happened? 😢

 

Are you going to get her repaired or part it out or let insurance deal with it?

 

Damn that sucks, hadn't even got the turbo mapped in either!

[cm9876]

7 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Sheeeeeez hope everyone's ok, what happened? 😢

 

Are you going to get her repaired or part it out or let insurance deal with it?

 

Damn that sucks, hadn't even got the turbo mapped in either!

Yea everyones fine. There were traffic lights just after an exit to a roundabout and an ambulance was blocking my view I didn't see the cars stationary at the lights. I glanced at the ambulance someone else had been hit by a car on a bike. I managed to brake for about half a second then hit the stationary car.

 

It's going through insurance, I hope it's not written off. Copart are collecting it next week I guess that's not good news.

[FabiaGonzales]

6 minutes ago, cm9876 said:

Yea everyones fine. There were traffic lights just after an exit to a roundabout and an ambulance was blocking my view I didn't see the cars stationary at the lights. I glanced at the ambulance someone else had been hit by a car on a bike. I managed to brake for about half a second then hit the stationary car.

 

It's going through insurance, I hope it's not written off. Copart are collecting it next week I guess that's not good news.

 

Oh good, that really sucks though, whereabouts was that? If it is getting written off, let me know, I've been looing at getting some monte carlo seats and couple of interior trims (is your center console trim red?), wasn't originally going to be doing so till i got a better paid job but hey. I have a proposition which i feel could benefit us both if so.

 

You know what I really, really hate? Traffic lights on and around roundabouts, like what's the point of it being a roundabout then?! Just make it a junction! I nearly took out a cop by going through a red light in the middle of a roundabout, one of those dumb ones 5m after another set of lights and timed to turn red as you come up to it, i didn't even notice it was there! 
My lights went green so i just set off minding my own business, thinking "what the heck are these morons not stopping for do they not know how roundabouts work!?" slammed on the brakes and came to a stop about 3ft off the side of a cop 😧 got a very funny look from the cop, honestly very suprised they didn't stop me.

 

Ended up having to go round the roundabout again due to ending up being stuck in the wrong lane from that incident, and on the second lap i almost bombed the red light AGAIN! Talking about morons... 🙃

(in my defense if you're in the far right lane, the light to right side isn't easily visible due to the angle, it's hidden behind and above the a-pillar area, and the left light, being 4 lanes across, is equally not easily visible, i just didn't notice the lights as i was paying more attention to where i was going and the traffic around me)

[cm9876]

8 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

Oh good, that really sucks though, whereabouts was that? If it is getting written off, let me know, I've been looing at getting some monte carlo seats and couple of interior trims (is your center console trim red?), wasn't originally going to be doing so till i got a better paid job but hey. I have a proposition which i feel could benefit us both if so.

 

You know what I really, really hate? Traffic lights on and around roundabouts, like what's the point of it being a roundabout then?! Just make it a junction! I nearly took out a cop by going through a red light in the middle of a roundabout, one of those dumb ones 5m after another set of lights and timed to turn red as you come up to it, i didn't even notice it was there! 
My lights went green so i just set off minding my own business, thinking "what the heck are these morons not stopping for do they not know how roundabouts work!?" slammed on the brakes and came to a stop about 3ft off the side of a cop 😧 got a very funny look from the cop, honestly very suprised they didn't stop me.

 

Ended up having to go round the roundabout again due to ending up being stuck in the wrong lane from that incident, and on the second lap i almost bombed the red light AGAIN! Talking about morons... 🙃

(in my defense if you're in the far right lane, the light to right side isn't easily visible due to the angle, it's hidden behind and above the a-pillar area, and the left light, being 4 lanes across, is equally not easily visible, i just didn't notice the lights as i was paying more attention to where i was going and the traffic around me)

Yea I have the red centre console and seats.

 

 

It was at the end of the a22. The Highfield link exit from the sinewater roundabout.

 

There was an ambulance and another car I'm the checkered area on the left. And there was a few cars stopped at the lights

[FabiaGonzales]

7 minutes ago, cm9876 said:

Yea I have the red centre console and seats.

 

 

It was at the end of the a22. The Highfield link exit from the sinewater roundabout.

 

There was an ambulance and another car I'm the checkered area on the left. And there was a few cars stopped at the lights

 

Ahhh that's just really unfortunate. I'm assuming you were half in the right lane passing the ambulance? Guess that's just a wrong place wrong time moment.

 

My thought is, I have a set of 16inch wheels from my Fabia, I give you those, which you can put on the car, then you have your set of 17inch wheels (i guess you could then sell them or keep them for another car).

Then swap the seats and the console trim, so mine gets the MC seats & trim(s) from yours, and yours gets the standard seats & trim(s) from mine.

 

That's all if it's not going to affect your insurance claim, and if you're interested and willing of course.

If that's not something you're willing to bother with that's no problem at all, it'd save me 500 miles of petrol haha

[cm9876]

If it is written off I don't know if I will have access to the car as they are taking it away.

If I have it still after being told it's a write off I'm happy to swap a few bits

[FabiaGonzales]

7 minutes ago, cm9876 said:

If it is written off I don't know if I will have access to the car as they are taking it away.

If I have it still after being told it's a write off I'm happy to swap a few bits

 

Considering the situation with covid-19, with bodyshops and such all being shut for the most part insurance companies are opting for writing stuff off rather than repairing.

 

Not completely sure how the front end is built on the fabia, but to me, it looks like there's structural damage to the wing, plus some minor looking damage to the A pillar from where the bonnet's shunted backward.

Insurers generally will just call it cat-s and write it off.

 

You might be lucky though, but i imagine it'll get written off 😞 

[xman]

3 hours ago, cm9876 said:

Copart are collecting it next week I guess that's not good news

 

That means its probably already written off. Copart are one of the largest salvage auctioneers used by insurance companies to dispose of write offs.

[cm9876]

19 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

Considering the situation with covid-19, with bodyshops and such all being shut for the most part insurance companies are opting for writing stuff off rather than repairing.

 

Not completely sure how the front end is built on the fabia, but to me, it looks like there's structural damage to the wing, plus some minor looking damage to the A pillar from where the bonnet's shunted backward.

Insurers generally will just call it cat-s and write it off.

 

You might be lucky though, but i imagine it'll get written off 😞 

Yea. I'm considering pulling off the turbo and putting the old one back on but it's probably going to take a while. It's in better condition than the old one. And if I get another 1.2 I can use it on that.

 

I should of kept my old discs and pads them new ones were expensive😐

[FabiaGonzales]

1 hour ago, cm9876 said:

Yea. I'm considering pulling off the turbo and putting the old one back on but it's probably going to take a while. It's in better condition than the old one. And if I get another 1.2 I can use it on that.

 

I should of kept my old discs and pads them new ones were expensive😐

Could always swap the whole shock/spring, knuckle, hub and caliper assemblies with mine, then at least it won't go completely to waste, if we were to do that, i could give you my (previously used) eibach springs that i hadn't fitted to mine yet, another thing you could keep for a future 1.2 or sell on. (You have eibachs fitted right? are they the lower load front springs or the higher load ones?)

 

If you didnt get another 1.2 the 1.4 turbo is worth more too. If you were unable to get it sold, turbo refurb companies will usually buy them for parts (i got given £30 for a damaged one which had eaten something and bent the compressor).

 

Probably sounds like i want to transplant half the car 😂

[Filipelol]

Anyone know if this applies to the EA111 1.2 tsi?

[FabiaGonzales]

5 minutes ago, Filipelol said:

Anyone know if this applies to the EA111 1.2 tsi?

It uses the same mounts for all 3 positions.

 

You can use those diesel variants too no problem.