First practice at Monza.

Mercs 1 & 2, Verstappen 5th after an 'off' into the barrier. Ferrari's 11th and 19th 1.2 & 2.2 seconds behind the fastest time.

Sad times at Williams F1, but their glory days were when Frank and Patrick Head ran the show. Never going to forget Silverstone '87 when Mansell passed Piquet.

Second practice at Monza:

Mercs 1 & 2 again. Ferrari's 9th & 12th 1.3 - 1.5 seconds a lap slower than Hamilton.

I think it's happy times for Williams that someone has invested in the team. They couldn't have kept going for much longer otherwise. McLaren have had to pawn their historic car collection to raise a bit of cash too I think.

20 hours ago, moley said:

Second practice at Monza:

Mercs 1 & 2 again. Ferrari's 9th & 12th 1.3 - 1.5 seconds a lap slower than Hamilton.

 

True pace starting to emerge in P3.

 

Hamilton does not seem happy with the Merc, tyre pressures too high for his driving.

 

Qually going to be actually entertaining for a change  it is shaping up.

Edited 5 September, 20205 yr by lol-lol

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

True pace starting to emerge in P3.

 

Hamilton does not seem happy with the Merc, tyre pressures too high for his driving.

 

Qually going to be actually entertaining for a change  it is shaping up.

We will see later on today. 

Well LOL doesn't know much about F1 as Lewis on Pole Position with the fastest ever lap in F1 History with an average speed of over 164mph. 94th Pole for Lewis and a splendid 3rd for Sainz in the quick McLaren. Bottas very close but still second. The Tifosi seen at the Down In The Mouth a nice pub just outside Modena.

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

True pace starting to emerge in P3.

Looks like you were right there.

 

Hamilton does not seem happy with the Merc, tyre pressures too high for his driving.

Hamilton really struggled with those tyre pressures to get pole. 

 

Qually going to be actually entertaining for a change  it is shaping up.

Yeah, everyone queuing up to get a slipstream.

 

Ferrari's 13th & 17th at their home Grand Prix. Fastest Renault 1 second off of the pole time, fastest Renault engine in a McLaren  3rd on the grid. All six Ferrari engine cars in the bottom eight.  

 

4 minutes ago, moley said:

Looks like you were right there.

 

Hamilton does not seem happy with the Merc, tyre pressures too high for his driving.  Hamilton really struggled with those tyre pressures to get pole. 

 

Qually going to be actually entertaining for a change  it is shaping up.  Yeah, everyone queuing up to get a slipstream.

 

Ferrari's 13th & 17th at their home Grand Prix. Fastest Renault 1 second off of the pole time, fastest Renault engine in a McLaren  3rd on the grid. All six Ferrari engine cars in the bottom eight.  

 

Tyre pressure, over-heating and blistering will occur after some lap on the Merc so we will see how long the Merc last on those soft tyres as we have seen how hard the Mercedes is on tyres. Really thought they were going to try and take pole on the mediums but clearly not confident enough to do so.

 I do not thing they have the pace over the Renault-McLarens to get a 20 second lead at Monza before the soft disintegrate on the Mercs.

 

Entertaining it was although scary also.  Slipstreaming and attempted passing in 2m wide open wheels cars looks well scary compared to motorcycles.  

 

Renault powered McLaren was 0.8s off Lewis very good recovery after having, by his standards, a poor set of practice sessions. After Renault best point score ever in its long F1 career last week lets see how those Renault engined cars do tomorrow though I was disappointed Ocon only got P12 at least they can choose to start on the medium tyres so might jump up a few places after the first pit stops and then can go on the softs after that, another 24 points, including fastest lap, which Renault powered cars are making a habit of in the race, would be very nice.   Hope McLaren do well of course, Sainz said nice things about the Renault power unit in a post qually interview. 

 

• 1  Lewis HAMILTON Mercedes1:18.887  6
•  
• 2  Valtteri BOTTAS Mercedes+0.069  6
•  
• 3  Carlos SAINZ McLaren+0.808  5
•  
• 4  Sergio PEREZ Racing Point+0.833  5
•  
• 5  Max VERSTAPPEN Red Bull Racing+0.908  5
•  
• 6  Lando NORRIS McLaren+0.933  6
•  
• 7  Daniel RICCIARDO Renault+0.977  6
•  
• 8  Lance STROLL Racing Point+1.162  6

 

 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 Really thought they were going to try and take pole on the mediums

The tyre you start the race on is the compound that you set the fastest time on in Q2 and not the tyre used in Q3. Are there any teams in the top ten not starting on the soft tyre?

So remind me, which team pushed for the party mode ban?

 

And which team have gone backwards on the grid with the party mode ban?

 

Doesn't look so good for the race now does it?

 

Hahahahaha.

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151908/bottas-not-sure-how-happy-red-bull-is-on-party-modes

 

Thanks for making my day RB-Honda.

Perhaps Ferrari should be allowed to use party mode to get out of Q3 next time.

6 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Perhaps Ferrari should be allowed to use party mode to get out of Q3 next time.

 

Ferrari used to put a 3 litre in at Monza during the 50's and the Italian scrutineers never noticed. (It was a  2 1/2 litre formula at the time)

 

They also used to get away with outrageous jump starts at Monza too. The other drivers didn't watch the flag, they watched the nearest Ferrari.

 

 

Edited 5 September, 20205 yr by camelspyyder

Mercedes engine development anticipated the party mode ban, so they can actually now run the engine harder in the race than they did before.

 

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151913/mercedes-planned-party-mode-ban-contingency--wolff

 

Wolff, like Bo77as, has a little dig at RBR in his statement too.

3 hours ago, moley said:

The tyre you start the race on is the compound that you set the fastest time on in Q2 and not the tyre used in Q3. Are there any teams in the top ten not starting on the soft tyre?

 

Pretty sure Hamilton was fastest in Q1 on the medium, but elected not to use it in Q2.

 

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Tyre pressure, over-heating and blistering will occur after some lap on the Merc so we will see how long the Merc last on those soft tyres as we have seen how hard the Mercedes is on tyres. Really thought they were going to try and take pole on the mediums but clearly not confident enough to do so.

 I do not thing they have the pace over the Renault-McLarens to get a 20 second lead at Monza before the soft disintegrate on the Mercs.

 

Entertaining it was although scary also.  Slipstreaming and attempted passing in 2m wide open wheels cars looks well scary compared to motorcycles.  

 

Renault powered McLaren was 0.8s off Lewis very good recovery after having, by his standards, a poor set of practice sessions. After Renault best point score ever in its long F1 career last week lets see how those Renault engined cars do tomorrow though I was disappointed Ocon only got P12 at least they can choose to start on the medium tyres so might jump up a few places after the first pit stops and then can go on the softs after that, another 24 points, including fastest lap, which Renault powered cars are making a habit of in the race, would be very nice.   Hope McLaren do well of course, Sainz said nice things about the Renault power unit in a post qually interview. 

•  

 

Mercedes only wrecked their tyres in mega heat at Silverstone, a high downforce track. Monza is nothing like that and the forecast is only 27C, so we will see.

 

No-one qualified on the mediums because their poor start performance would almost certainly lose places on the run to turn 1 and overtaking here is painfully difficult most years.

 

Who is this Renault-Mclaren team you speak of? According to the FIA entry list "McLaren Racing Ltd" enter the "McLaren F1 Team".

No official mention of their bought-in engine - unlike Alpha Tauri Honda for instance.

 

 

 

Edited 5 September, 20205 yr by camelspyyder

10 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Pretty sure Hamilton was fastest in Q1 on the medium, but elected not to use it in Q2.

Mercedes only wrecked their tyres in mega heat at Silverstone, a high downforce track. Monza is nothing like that and the forecast is only 27C, so we will see.

No-one qualified on the mediums because their poor start performance would almost certainly lose places on the run to turn 1 and overtaking here is painfully difficult most years.

Who is this Renault-Mclaren team you speak of? According to the FIA entry list "McLaren Racing Ltd" enter the "McLaren F1 Team".

No official mention of their bought-in engine - unlike Alpha Tauri Honda for instance.

 

Monza, along with Baku, have the highest longitudinal G forces ie the have the heaviest braking and G force from braking and the parabolica has 5G lateral G force for longer than any other corner in the world I would have thought with the exception of 130R.  

 

Low drag, low down force is offset by the higher speeds providing up to 5Gs even on these lower down force Monza wings.

 

Let us hope for some dicing rather than the far too oft processions but then one can flip over to World Super bikes at Aragon if one gets bored with F1.  

 

Monza generally makes for boring races. Desperate fans waiting for anything to happen - an engine to blow up or the leader to crash (Hakkinen, Hill) or just occasionally a massive error from Hamilton (remember him stuffing it into the barrier after Lesmo 2 during the "Nicole" years?). 

 

Hopefully watch it tonight on C4.

So how big is the real gap between Mercedes and everyone else under the new engine rules?

 

Pole to the first non Merc is 0.8 seconds - but everyone except the Mercedes had a tow on all 4 straights.

 

What do we think - 1.2 seconds faster?

 

The teams that pushed for this must be kicking themselves.

 

As an aside, Wolff has stated that Mercedes haven't even used party mode at all the previous races this year 

Breaking news from Monza the Renault team will be rebranded as ALPINE F1 TEAM for 2021 with a blue colour scheme. Renault bought the small sports car company in 1973. The engine will continue to be known as Renault E-tech hybrid though.

11 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

So how big is the real gap between Mercedes and everyone else under the new engine rules?

 

Pole to the first non Merc is 0.8 seconds - but everyone except the Mercedes had a tow on all 4 straights.

 

What do we think - 1.2 seconds faster?

 

The teams that pushed for this must be kicking themselves.

 

As an aside, Wolff has stated that Mercedes haven't even used party mode at all the previous races this year 

This was being discussed on Radio 5L just now. Clearly Red Bull Racing believed that the rule change would disadvantage Mercedes more than themselves, well that backfired big time. I wonder what RBR will do next to get the rules changed to try and reign in Mercedes? 

3 minutes ago, moley said:

This was being discussed on Radio 5L just now. Clearly Red Bull Racing believed that the rule change would disadvantage Mercedes more than themselves, well that backfired big time. I wonder what RBR will do next to get the rules changed to try and reign in Mercedes? 

 

So far this year they've protested Mercedes steering system, protested Hamilton post qually, protested Hamilton in the race, made allegations about Mercedes part in the Racing Point brake duct affair, forced a rule change to disadvantage Mercedes engines etc etc. 

 

If they just went away and built a faster car wouldn't that be a better use of their time? 

 

Max' comment about his car yesterday - "its just too slow."  Approaching the Senna/Lotus divorce point I think.

The Verstappens must surely have eyes on Bottas' Mercedes for 2022.

Wonder if RBR complain about the sandwiches provided to the team as well. Max in a Mercedes is the future for F1 to continue on from the greats such as Schuey and Lewis when he finally decides to let someone else stand on the top step more often.

4 minutes ago, moley said:

This was being discussed on Radio 5L just now. Clearly Red Bull Racing believed that the rule change would disadvantage Mercedes more than themselves, well that backfired big time. I wonder what RBR will do next to get the rules changed to try and reign in Mercedes? 

 

Raise tyre pressure and less fuel, just a 2 psi rise and 10 kgs less would seem a much more level race as we safe in Silverstone, Spa and hopefully Monza today.

I believe F1 should set an example and like roads burn less fuel, get better at energy recovery, go 4 wheel drive, given women more chance to drive which would mean more power assistance, Bottas sounds like he is suffering from leg pump or some issue with that 100 kg plus force to brake in the last 2 races.  

 

Great to see most of the British based teams doing so well, which include McLaren, Mercedes, Renault, Red Bull, Racing Point compared to the 3 non-UK based teams. 

Blown diffusers, flexing front wings, increased fuel flow, Red Bull used to be creative and bend the rules to gain an advantage. Now they only appear to be capable of pi$$ing off every engine supplier in town and whinging that other teams are better than them. 

Just now, moley said:

Blown diffusers, flexing front wings, increased fuel flow, Red Bull used to be creative and bend the rules to gain an advantage. Now they only appear to be capable of pi$$ing off every engine supplier in town and whinging that other teams are better than them. 

Probably explains why Red Bull drink tastes so bad. Leaves a nasty effect in the mouth.

I know Max starts 5th today but still expect him to finish 3rd behind the Mercedes duo.