Towing caravan with a Yeti?

[Dale_Stevens]

Anyone tow a caravan with a Yeti?

 

I initially discounted the Yeti as a suitable tow car due to its weight, and have been researching the Superbs instead.

 

However, I notice the diesel 4x4 Yetis are heavier and can tow up to 2,100kg. That being said, the weight of the car still lets it down weighing in at around 1565kg. My caravans maximum weight is 1450kg which gives a towing ratio of about 92% which isn't ideal.

 

But I'm interested in hearing from anyone who does tow a caravan with a Yeti.

[Frenchtone]

try llanigraham he tows!!

[g7eor]

I used to tow  a Swift 584. No problem at all.. Now bought a campervan

[gumdrop]

I towed an Eriba Troll and later a Bailey 380/2, I had the 2x 2L 110ps.

Anyway, it towed fast and smooth no problem. I owned two Yeti.

 

Edited 8 January, 2020 by gumdrop

[Urrell]

The short rear overhang  and stability controls makes the Yeti a VERY stable towcar.

 

[Dale_Stevens]

Thanks, owners seem to like them as tow cars for caravans.

A Yeti would be a second tow car for us, mostly using wifes VW Tiguan.

My caravan is a Swift Challenger with MTPLM 1451kg. Its close to a 100% match with the Yeti as a tow car. But with the weight of driver, passengers and loading heavy items on the car it should be ok.

[kenfowler3966]

You ideally need to find one with a genuine towbar fitted and properly coded into the car. It is very expensive to add later and makes even less sense on a car already a few years ols

[Llanigraham]

Don't think I can add much to what has already been said. 
I only tow 1100kg but it is ultra-stable even at French motorway speeds.

If what you buy does not have a tow bar fitted expect to pay up to £300 for a fully coded fitting. Do NOT go down the only very slightly cheaper by-pass relay system but fit a proper wiring system and ensure that who does it has the capability to properly code the car. That is the only way to get everything working properly.

Edited 8 January, 2020 by Llanigraham

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, kenfowler3966 said:

You ideally need to find one with a genuine towbar fitted and properly coded into the car. It is very expensive to add later and makes even less sense on a car already a few years ols

 

I fitted one yesterday, been a few months getting around to it during which time I have read no end of scare stories about must have factory specified 'Towbar prep" must use certian makes, must have it coded in etc etc.

 

False news from my experience, £105 for a flange fit towbar but which can be removed like a swan- neck, a standard wiring kit with the Maypole relay less than £20, both dead easy to fit and worked perfectly, no coding needed, no canbus errors, no fault codes.

 

Whilst it is the most expensive towbar I have fitted its still a fraction of the "very expensive" that you quote and was very well made and good value for money, it fits really snugly against the rear bumper lower panel (Yeti Outdoor) that I had the choice of either machining the bolts to length or drilling clearance holes for them using the flange as a drill jig, I did the latter because I have various different drop plates and pin couplings to fit for my various trailers, the nuts fit snugly against the bumper panel, its the neatest towbar install I have ever done.

 

Why does it make less sense on an older vehicle?

 

Editted, a couple of hours to fit, a lot of that was taken up debating what side to fit the relay, the left is the common one and where the towbar prep would be if fitted, mine did not have a connector and fitting it to the right avoided running the cable above the exhaust, 2 wires needed to be extended to go to the LH rear cluster.

Edited 8 January, 2020 by J.R.

[Urrell]

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

I fitted one yesterday, been a few months getting around to it during which time I have read no end of scare stories about must have factory specified 'Towbar prep" must use certian makes, must have it coded in etc etc.

 

Do you have stability control extended to what you are towing, security alarm extended to trailer, high intensity rear light and reversing sensors disabled when towing etc etc?

[J.R.]

Kenny R and Llanigraham.

 

What do you find so "sad" about someone fitting their own towbar and relating the positive experience on the forum?

 

Urrell.

 

I have not towed with the vehicle yet so will answer your questions relating to my towing experience over 42 years.

 

No, no, no and no.

 

First world problems that have never entered into my consciosness in the world I inhabit.

 

To answer them individually.

 

1, I know how to react through experience, its now an instinct, far more important though is understanding the dynamics and how to avoid it in the first place. The vehicle itself does have stability control whether I want it or not, younger drivers will never build up the instincts of how to react in a skid or a wagging trailer and learn how to avoid both.

 

2. I have always taken responsibility for the physical security of anything I tow, the system will not do anything to prevent theft and is more likely to cause nuisance alarms given the harsh environment around the trailer socket.

 

3. Never caused me a problem, in fact it is usefull for a small narrow light trailer without side running lights. I do have a trailer socket with the required contact to cut the foglights and could easily have fitted it if I valued it but the very reason that I removed it from the vehicle that came with it was that one day the rear foglights of the vehicle stopped working due to corrosion in the contacts. In fact its doubly advantageous for the rear fog light to remain active, when towing you can switch it on to make sure the small narrow trailer is still connected and to check the vehicle rear fog light is operative.

 

4. As above, usefull and I would not want to disable them.

 

Can anyone tell me why "it makes even less sense on a vehicle a few years old"?

 

 

Edited 9 January, 2020 by J.R.

[Urrell]

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

What do you find so "sad" about someone fitting their own towbar and relating the positive experience on the forum?

 

If you call that positive I think you have completely the wrong idea about that post being at all helpful.
Why not tie the trailer to the bumper with a length of rope?

[J.R.]

Yes I absolutely find postings where people challenge the "recieved mentality" of having to spend 3 times the money for professionals to do a simple DIY job positive. What do you percieve as unpositive?

 

I should qualify "simple DIY" as being for someone who comes from a generation where DIY was a necessity and where people gained their knowledge through experience and with that knowledge dont swallow everything that they read on the net but question it.

 

I dont know you to be sure but I hope that your final comment is not worthy of you.

 

If you think that I am doing anything dangerous at all then please say so, after all I have been known to walk on the gaps in the pavement.

[Llanigraham]

By not fitting a proper wiring harness and getting the car reprogrammed you are unable to programme the car to allow the following when the trailer is plugged in:

Rear parking sensors inactive.

Rear fog lights inactive.
Trailer display on dash.

Alteration to the car's stability control system to allow even for a little trailer.

Extension of the alarm system to cover the trailer being unplugged.

Extension of the bulb failure system, which covers the legal requirement to have a warning the trailer indicators aren't working.

Alters the parameters of the Vehicle Lighting Control Unit to take into account the additional load of the extra indicator lights.

What your comments prove is that you have no idea of the complexity of modern cars and particularly their electronics.

 

 

[J.R.]

Wow, how judgemental, seems like your comments were indeed worthy of you. All you have done is to reiterate what you have already said and not say what i am doing that is dangerous to justify your comment, you then go on to state that I have proved that I have no idea of the complexity of modern vehicle electronics.

 

I would respectfully suggest that from your uninformed and incorrect comments perhaps its you that is lacking in understanding of modern vehicle electronics, I have eaten and breathed them for over 2 decades, made my living designing and manufacturing them and am still learning every day because I have a willingness and continued desire to do so.

 

Ignoring the modern day "essential" electronic systems that just breed generations of drivers all the more disconnected from their actions on vehicle dynamics I will address your concerns regarding the legality of the lighting system as you have not come up with anything dangerous to justify your "might as well tie it on with a bit of string" comment.

 

The Maypole relay gives an audible warning as required by the vehicle construction & use regulations when the indicators are used, there are terminals to hardwire a warning lamp on the dashboard should you choose to do so but either an uadible or visual warning is compliant and the absence of such confirmation provides a warning if you forget to plug in the trailer plug, the intelligent OE system that you counsel would not even know that a trailer was coupled if the driver forgets to connect the plug, something we all do at some time.

 

With the trailer relay (which can also be used for non Canbus systems) there is no additional load on the indicator circuit or any of the lighting circuits other than a de minimus current to bias the sensing transistor which switches the relay (solid state switching actually) providing the current from a direct fused connection to the battery or in my case from the rear accessory socket. There is therefore no need to alter the parameters of the vehicle lighting control, the trailer electrics are completely independant from it other than the negligible sensing current.

[J.R.]

Apologies Llanigraham, I have mixed your posting with that of Urrell, it was not you that made the comment about towing with a piece of string and not you I asked what I was doing you considered dangerous, the remaining comments are in response to your posting.

[Breezy_Pete]

@J.R. or anyone else using the Maypole/similar bypass relay systems; measure the quiescent current they draw if connected to a permanent 12V supply.

Mine weighed in at 60mA to my surprise, if memory serves, which was more than 3 times the car's natural current draw. I put a rocker switch inline with its supply so I could isolate it when not towing.

[J.R.]

Now how would someone with no idea of modern vehicle electronics even know what you are talking about let alone how to test it 🤣

 

Seriously though thanks very very much for that timely advice, the battery on the Yeti having been removed from my MK1 Octavia over a year ago and being maybe 3 years old does not have much reserve capacity, it would not start after I had been working on it from the interior light draw so but for you telling me the same would have happened again and I would have further weakened it by cranking without knowing.

 

I will test the voltage before attempting to start it and then measure the quiescent current, anything is too much so I will may fit a relay triggered by a switched 12v feed, perhaps with a secondary feed from the sidelights in case of a breakdown and having to leave the car and trailer at night with the lights on.

 

You have restored my temporarily diminished faith in the forum 😀

[J.R.]

And I also think you may have solved the mystery of the battery drain on my Octavia 2, I changed and recoded the Canbus gateway after fitting a Chinese head unit and the quiescent drain reduced but the voltage still drops faster than I believe it should, I think the Varta battery (new last year) is damaged, its cell voltage was always 0.5v less than the one it replaced and its never been the same since I tried starting it when it had been left for a week.

 

The trailer relay which was on the car when I bought it will be getting some proper attention.

[SuperbTWM]

 

4 hours ago, J.R. said:

, I know how to react through experience, its now an instinct, far more important though is understanding the dynamics and how to avoid it in the first place. The vehicle itself does have stability control whether I want it or not, younger drivers will never build up the instincts of how to react in a skid or a wagging trailer and learn how to avoid both.

 

 

 

 

 

Just wanted to add my thoughts towards this.

 

You seem to think of the dedicated wiring and coding to be just a driver aid, but one of the reasons the car needs to know if a trailer is attached has nothing to do with the driver behind the wheel, its to stop the CAR itself from doing something to make the situation worse. So unless your going to pull the ABS fuses every time you tow, the car you think you will be able to control in the event of a tank slapper could end up doing the opposite of what you want it to and actually cause more of a mess than it otherwise would.

 

Just for that reason alone, if I was going to tow a great big shed about I would have the proper gear. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 January, 2020 by SuperbTWM

[J.R.]

Yes I think that I had read that somewhere, again reading something does not make it so other than in a perhaps theoretical sense, mybe one day I will find out but I wont be experimenting with a laden trailer. The vehicle electronics already often intervene before the driver can react and the drivers instincts as correct as they may be could be counterproductive and fighting against the vehicles electronics.

 

Fitting your own towbar with simple legal electrics is not going to make the combination any less roadworthy than any vehicle in the past nor illegal. I concede that under an emergency situation with a driver that does not know how to or does not react the vehicles electronic systems may make it safer if they do in fact change parameters while towing in a substantial and not theoretical way, the flight control systems on the Boeing 737 max were supposed to do the same thing.

 

Modern FWD vehicles for probably close to 2 decades with overly wide tyres are very difficult to control in icy conditions and would be dangerous for most drivers without the electronic systems. I always like to find how a car reacts on the limit by overcooking it in safe circumstances, a wet roundabout for instance with no traffic, you need to turn off the ESwhatevers and doing it again with them switched on is very revealing.

 

Similarly in the first snows I like to break traction on a straight cambered road (no traffic again) to see what sideways torque bias there is and how quick you have to react with the steering and feathering the throttle, pre electronic era only the most powerfull FWD vehicles needed very fast reactions, this first time I tried it even tentatively in the Octavia it was moving on a sideways vector so quickly that I nearly could not catch it, with the electronic controls it was fine, like an underpowered vehicle that could not break traction.

 

I was first alerted to this exact phenomenon in New Zealand in 2004, I bought an old Nissan Prairie converted into a camper from a guy that had replaced it with a newish Japanese people carrier, he said he no longer dared take the off road tracks that he used to in the simple old school Nissan as it would have him in the ditch in an instant, I guess it was one of the last before ESwhatevers.

Edited 9 January, 2020 by J.R.

[J.R.]

22 hours ago, Wino said:

@J.R. or anyone else using the Maypole/similar bypass relay systems; measure the quiescent current they draw if connected to a permanent 12V supply.

Mine weighed in at 60mA to my surprise, if memory serves, which was more than 3 times the car's natural current draw. I put a rocker switch inline with its supply so I could isolate it when not towing.

 

I cant thank you enough for this Wino, I had done lots of current drain tests on the Octavia and had never considered the towing relay, its open ring terminal power connection to the battery was broken when I got the car but perhaps it had been removed for a reason, I checked it today, the 200ma ranges are not working on either of my meters (not the fuses) so had to check on the 10 amp range, it showed 0.02 ampers so somewhere between 20 and 30 milliamps.

 

Far too much in addition to the normal quiescent current for a car with a damaged battery and a battery drain problem, I have removed the fuse for the moment but have an LED voltage readout on the centre console which I watch obsessively, one glance tomorrow morning will be enough to know if you have given the car a reprieve and if I will be able to leave it for more than 3 days without anxiety.

 

The Yeti was still at 12.2v so can wait till tomorrow to remove the rear & side panels to isolate the relay, think I will fit a switch and LED to show when it is on, same deal with the Octavia if I keep it.

 

Thanks again!

[Ootohere]

Competent DIY is great.

Incompetent DIY might never bite you in the bum but if you wipe out innocent people or cause life changing injuries and your vehicle and what you are towing goes in for expert examinations remember just what you did and why and how it was all going to be no problem.

[Breezy_Pete]

Glad to have helped.

[J.R.]

Thanks Wino, although I am at a loss as to why my thanking you for your help should have generated an "unhelpfull" icon, perhaps I have gained myself a cyberstalker.