DSG box - is yours awful too?

[Kodiak-Red]

Hi, I've had my Kodiaq 190ps DSG Sportline for a year now and the one HUGE fly in the Skoda ointment I'm thinking is the auto box. Once moving the response of the car to throttle input is pretty much ok, but the auto-box is no ZF as found in a Bimmer. When setting off in normal driving mode the car is sluggish for the first 10-15 yards or so, and the accelerator pedal is totally non-linear. Even if I stamp abruptly on the gas it takes the car over a second to respond and then it goes ballistic, as if the throttle has only 'OFF' or 'FULLY OPEN'. Switching the box to Sport mode makes little difference to the throttle response - it just changes down sooner and up later.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? I've read a couple of reviews of other VAG products (eg Passat) where the journo has described similar dynamics (or lack of ). It takes the polish off an otherwise lovely car. I'm currently researching a re-map of the DSG as the engine seems to have enough power ultimately, it just doesn't get delivered to the wheels smoothly.

[DaveMiller]

What you describe seems more to do with the way the engine responds to throttle input - nothing to do with the gearbox?

[CheshireBumpkin]

Yes, I'm struggling with this too. I suspect a pedal box (nod to the Superb Forum) is the best solution, but have yet to take the plunge myself. 

[Kodiak-Red]

Thanks guys. I mentioned the issue to my dealer at the first service. Response?: "They're all the same sir...😒"

 

Guess I can check the throttle response on a clear stretch of road in manual mode? 💡

 

Will update when I find the answer.

[Greenliner1]

I suppose it’s how you drive it, it suits my gentle driving style, it is keen to change up quickly.

 

It takes a little coaxing to get the 190 horses to wake up!

 

I found the 6 speed DQ250 on the Tdi vRS Octy I previously had a much more ‘vigourous’  response and seamless in operation, but I do like the long legged 7th gear for motorway cruising.

 

How do you find it in sport mode?

[SimonAudi]

I thing with Carista or OBD11 you can change the throttle responce mode to more direct..

 

If that does not work.. you can by a tunning box for the throttle..

 

As above - I believe the issue is more related to the throttle than the DSG

 

 

I have been meaning to change mine - due to the delay when you step on the gas....to see if it makes any difference.

 

 

[jamesdevon]

I find this with my 150 diesel too. I thought it it was the gearbox at first but its definately go do with the throttle response. 

 

Skoda seem to set up the throttle response differently to say Seat or Audi. 

 

They see to go for a very subtle response as opposed to Seat which is quite aggressive. 

[Kenny R]

I certainly don’t have any of the gearbox or throttle response problems mentioned on my 2018 2.0 TSI DQ500 DSG. Must be the  emissions control on the newer engines and the different DQ381 DSG gearbox, or whatever one they replaced the DQ500 with.

Edited 20 February, 2020 by Kenny R

[J.R.]

Emissions related?

 

Way back around 2003 ish I drove a small Peugeot diesel hatchback, the throttle pedal had a sort of nydraulic damper to prevent you from opening the throttle too quickly, drive it gently and there was no resistance, drive it hard and it was like walking through quicksand wearing wellington boots, I was in a hurry and it made my foot ache.

 

rapid engine acceleration and emission control are not good bedfellows.

[Winston_Wolf]

Personally I find the 7 speed DSG (DQ381) in my Kodiaq TDI 150 to be very responsive on take-off. In this regard it's appreciably better than the 6-speed DSG in my last car (a VW Sharan TDI 140) and is therefore an area in which the car has exceeded my expectations.

 

That said, in situations where a brisk take-off from a standstill is essential (e.g. busy roundabouts/junctions) I usually toggle the DSG lever into sports mode where the take-off is a bit more urgent. 

 

I suspect the higher maximum power output derived from the larger turbo unit in the TDI 190 comes at the cost of more turbo lag than you get in the TDI 150.

[linni]

Get some VCDS and do this:

 

Direct Acceleration - Throttle response
With this mod, you can change the behaviour of the accelerator. Option B provides a more linear acceleration without sudden deliveries.
1. Module 44 - Power Steering (Code 19249)
2. Adaptation
3. Select - switching driving profile
Choices:
A - Gradual, controlled by time
B - Directly controlled threshold value

 

 

[Winston_Wolf]

For those experiencing this problem, have you noticed what gear the car's in while this is happening?

 

Presumably due to the 1st gear ratio being incredibly low (about 5MPH/1000RPM) I've noticed that on a light throttle the car just loves to grab 2nd gear at the very earliest opportunity when moving off - literally, almost as soon as the car starts moving. 

 

What can happen at roundabouts is that when you see your gap coming you take your foot off the brake and feather the throttle getting ready to go and the car starts moving very slowly. Unfortunately, behind the scenes it's already shifted into 2nd while this is happening so that when your gap arrives and you jab the throttle there's no shove because the turbo's off boost due to very low RPM plus you're now in 2nd gear.  It then either then tries to correct the situation by dropping back into 1st and you surge forward after a shift delay (especially as the DSG has already pre-selected 3rd on the second clutch at this point) or it stays in 2nd and there's no meaningful shove until the revs climb and the turbo does its thing. 

 

2nd gear ratio on the TDI DSGs is about 8.5MPH/1000RPM.  Even on my smaller turbo'd (and therefore quicker spooling) TDI 150, meaningful torque doesn't arrive until at least 1250RPM which in 2nd gear equates to about 11MPH so if you're below that speed and in 2nd then you're almost certainly off-boost. With its larger (and therefore slower spooling) turbo, on a TDI 190 the minimum speed you need to be at in 2nd is probably even higher.

 

To guarantee a responsive take-off, I've learnt to not start the pulling away process (i.e. no throttle feathering) until I know I'm going and then commit to the take off in one fluid movement with the first press on the throttle pedal being a quick, solid one. I find it does this much more reliably in sport mode (on the transmission) plus it hangs onto 1st for longer. It seems that sport mode always tries to keep the revs above 1750RPM when accelerating, the level at which max. torque is available.

 

Anyway, that's my theory about what can happen with my own car which may of course be independent of a throttle response problem on another vehicle.

[Markymate]

Sounds like throttle lag rather than gearbox.  When I first got my Kodiaq 1.4tsi DSG, it had a slight lag when pulling away so I brought and fitted the XLR racechip. 10 minutes to fit and bang tidy, lag gone. Two years later and its still doing its job. 

https://www.racechip.co.uk/pedal-box/xlr.html

[BoxerBoy]

Mine is wonderful.

 

Must be the way I drive 😁

[Kodiak-Red]

Thanks to all for some brilliant feedback on this issue. It just seems frustrating that as a driver you have to adapt to drive around the issue when there are so many cars out there that just 'do it'.

 

I noticed in mine today (190ps 7 spd DQ381) that it generally has more pep in Individual mode where I have Drive / Gearbox / Steering modes all set to Sport, with the ACC etc set to Normal. Turning off TCS stability control seems to make no difference. Winston Wolf's theory on the gearbox behaviour holds some water for me but also so does the argument that the throttle response in general is quite lethargic unless you're in Sport mode.

 

I think I'm gonna try a remap by Bespoke Remapping Ltd who use Black Code maps. Discussion with them suggests I can get a much improved throttle response using the 'Economy' map for greater torque. It's got a 14 day money back guarantee so looks like I can't lose. Will probably get it done early March so will update on this thread later with the outcome.

[ZacDaMan72]

I did the VCDS tweak that changes the throttle response on my Golf R and it’s pretty noticeable. Don’t wanna mess with my RS (throttle response is fine) so you could try that?

STG 44 Steering Assist Module
Security access 19249
Adaptation 

Driving profile switchover: set from "incremental; controlled over time" to "direct; controlled over time"

[chrisluciofg]

On 22/02/2020 at 05:00, Markymate said:

Sounds like throttle lag rather than gearbox.  When I first got my Kodiaq 1.4tsi DSG, it had a slight lag when pulling away so I brought and fitted the XLR racechip. 10 minutes to fit and bang tidy, lag gone. Two years later and its still doing its job. 

https://www.racechip.co.uk/pedal-box/xlr.html

 

set and forget, or do you need to make any selections each time you start up ?

[Markymate]

Just set to the setting you're comfortable with, That's it, done. It stays at that setting till you decide to change it. Once I did mine and was happy, I just removed the dial from the box and stored it.

[MrMoonWhite]

I experience the same thing with my MK3 Superb 190TDI 4x4.

It is literally useless to have it in other than «sport» on the DSG to being able to    get out of a junction. I also feel the car is «lazy» and not responsive when driving. Tried the throttle response option is VCDS to set to Audi, but that did not help either.  Had a rental Octavia with 150TDI and this felt great! Why is this?
 

Will give the option @linni mentioned a try! Please update if others have sucess with this.

[linni]

Do not try Audi mode, lots of people are complaining all over the internet screwing things completely up!

 

I tried throttle response mode just for curiosity. As said, RS doesn`t have any lag, just Normal mode seems sometimes bit lazy. Throttle response mode performed the car into gocart, which was too sharp for me. 

[Winston_Wolf]

1 hour ago, MrMoonWhite said:

I experience the same thing with my MK3 Superb 190TDI 4x4.

It is literally useless to have it in other than «sport» on the DSG to being able to    get out of a junction. I also feel the car is «lazy» and not responsive when driving. Tried the throttle response option is VCDS to set to Audi, but that did not help either.  Had a rental Octavia with 150TDI and this felt great! Why is this?

I think it's down to the smaller turbo unit on the TDI 150 spooling up much quicker with the same throttle input.  Most of the people complaining about this problem are TDI 190 owners which says a lot especially when you consider there are far more TDI 150 owners out there.  

[mentaliss]

DSG's  2.0ltr Diesel's  have become known for poor throttle response = poor gear change, lag, hesitation..... My 4x4/190ps had all these problems so from my research I got hold of a guy who remaps particularly to motor racing since remapped done all the above sorted ..smooth ride, gear change with throttle response as the car should be

[Ootohere]

That is 190ps that have become known for poor throttle response, even though many might not find that so.

No point putting 150ps 2.0 TDI's down as being the same.

 

Maybe Skoda are managing to get the emissions required with the WLTP & RDE2 results with the 200ps 2.0 TDI's going into the new Octavia & Superb and have them not feeling lacking from a standing start.

[DaveMiller]

The more I consider this, the more I think different people are talking about different problems.

 

In response to Winston_Wolf’s question, I’ve been experimenting (in my 1.4TSi) and particularly watching what gear it’s in.  Answer:  first, I think.  Even if I set off “casually” into a roundabout, I’m well within the roundabout by the time it changes to second.  When it has frightened me, I've been nowhere near that far in.  I had previously noted that putting the gears into “sport” made no difference to the no-go-then-suddenly-frantic effect (though it did mean it was much farther round the roundabout, and revving in an unsavoury fashion before it changed up).  Whether it would make a difference putting the mode, rather than just the gears, into sport, I haven’t tried.

 

Interestingly, though, I couldn’t now get it to frighten me!  When my local busy roundabout was quiet, I tried many entries at various throttle openings.  All fairly normal.  The fright has only ever happened a handful of times in two years and 9,500 miles - partly because I don’t do many miles in that car, and partly because I tend not to be out at rush hour, and needing to grab a tight gap.

 

If something has been cured, through time or the two services, I’ll be delighted ... but I’ll try to have the calm to check the gear indicator during my next fright, if it occurs.

[SuperbTWM]

I've just had 9 days with a 69 plate VW Arteon 2.0 TDI 150 DSG and I couldn't fault it at all, never found it laggy, never hesitated to pull away at junctions or roundabouts and found it really smooth, only thing that puts me off now is owning one outside the warranty period