Turbo Swap Choices for EA211 1.2 TSI

[FabiaGonzales]

After much difficulty trying to research turbo upgrade options for other members, I decided it's probably worth making some sort of list of turbos that can be bolted straight onto the 1.2 TSI.

See the second post for a quick simple installation guide and other suggestions/advice.

 

Which Turbo do I want?

For some reason, despite them all being pretty much the same power, and all being used in what's effectively the same chassis, there's about 25 different engine codes and just as many different turbo models. It's quite a mess, so i've tried to organise them here.

It's also just been made aparent that there's some variants (seems like any ACT ones) which use a different style of wastegate actuator, they're also made by a different company and have different turbine designs, they should all provide the same final power, but might have slightly differing boost characteristics.

 

1.2 TSI Turbos - Standard - The original turbo on your car should be one of these, unless your turbo died, there's no point buying these.

04E 145 721 L

04E 145 713 B

04E 145 713 Q

04E 145 704 T

04E 145 704 L

04E 145 704 N

04E 145 703 Q

 

1.4 TSI Small Turbos - Avoid - Same size as the 1.2 TSI but with different shaped exhaust housing, you won't see any gains with these.

04E 145 721 E

04E 145 721 R

04E 145 713 N

04E 145 704 F

04E 145 704 R

 

1.4 TSI Large Turbos - Avoid - Has an additional sensor on the exhaust housing, stay away unless someone confirms it's removable and fits.

04E 145 721 C

04E 145 721 G

 

1.4 TSI Large Turbos - Avoid - These have a different type of Wastegate actuator, stay away unless someone confirms it works.

04E 145 722 G

04E 145 721 P

04E 145 715 B

04E 145 715 D

04E 145 715 E

04E 145 715 F

 

1.4 TSI Large Turbos - Best Choice - Matching Wastegate and confirmed working by myself and others.

04E 145 721 B

04E 145 721 F

04E 145 704 C

04E 145 704 P

 

Purchasing Options

New turbos can be bolted straight on the day it arrives in the post, though they're incredibly expensive and will set you back potentially by more than £600.

Remanufactured/Refurbished turbos are a cheaper alternative for an equally safe purchase, and are also good to bolt on the day it arrives, these go for usually around the £350 mark, sometimes some pop up a bit lower though.

Used turbos are by far the cheapest option, but it's advisable to have it rebuilt. A used turbo will set you back around £100-150, having it rebuilt will cost you around the £100-150 mark, total cost roughly £250.

 

When purchasing a Used Turbo

If possible, collect it in person before commiting to the purchase so you can inspect it to ensure it is the correct part and that there is no damage. A damaged turbo can still be repaired, but a repair will set you back closer to £250-300.

If there's any damage to either intake compressor or exhaust turbine, or if it does not rotate freely (be very gentle when attempting to spin it, it's very fragile), it's not worth your time or money.

Use brake or carb-cleaner to clean out any oily residue (try not to get it in the oil channels, as you do want oil in those, but cleaning the coolant passageways is fine). But again, do not poke anything in the blades, they are easily damaged!

I'd recommend to check a few turbo refurb companies for rebuild prices, then checking how much you can get hold of a turbo for, both used and refurbed, and proceed from there before actually purchasing anything.

 

Disclaimer should you choose to install a used turbo without having it rebuilt or at least inspected by a professional:

I advise against doing so, and I shall NOT take any responsibility for any damages incurred by YOUR actions.

Turbos spin sometimes upwards of 250,000 RPM, the slightest of imbalance from any kind of damage, can result in catastrophic failure!

This could potentially send metal shards through your engine, completely ruining your engine too! Just get it rebuilt already!!!

Edited 8 June, 2020 by FabiaGonzales

[FabiaGonzales]

What kind of gains can i get?

The lower power 1.4 TSI (122/125PS models) use the same size turbo as the 1.2 TSI, only the 140/150PS variants use a larger turbo.

Given that with no other mods, when mapped the difference between the two turbo sizes of the 1.4 TSI is roughly 30PS, we can expect the 1.2TSI should produce around 160PS (130PS being a common Stage-1 level map) with the larger turbo.

Obviously, with other mods like a sport-cat or intakes, this may well increase further - sometimes by more than 20PS, possibly achieving more than 180PS. Torque probably won't change much if at all though, it'll just hold that torque to higher rpms.

So, to summarise, with no other mods, probably around the 160PS mark, with torque somewhere around the 240NM mark.

 

Can I fit it without mapping it straight away?

Yes, but the larger turbo has different boost characteristics, it will run fine, but it barely provides any torque until about 2000 rpm, where the stock turbo provides strong torque from just 1400 rpm.

You will also notice that it feels like the engine is breathing much better beyond 4500 rpm, it just keeps on going where before it would feel like it ran out of puff. The turbo is barely doing anything yet it pulls so well.

This will all change when mapped - which i haven't yet done - and i'll be certain to update you all when i have had it done!

 

What else do I need to fit it?

You should buy a Gasket Set for it, this comes with new seals for the oil lines, charge pipe, coolant lines and new exhaust gaskets.

You can get one from here: https://www.autodoc.co.uk/elring/9970020 they take sometimes up to 2 weeks to arrive, but it's got everything you need in there.

 

Can I fit it myself?

Yes, for tools, you'll need your standard metric socket set, 8mm through till 15mm is enough, you'll also want a T30 bit, and a 6mm Hex bit (a T40 bit works if you don't have a 6mm Hex bit).

There's one more bit which is called a Triple Square Spline bit, it's like a 12point Torx, and i've no idea what size it is, i'll let you figure that one out for yourself! It's metric though.

There's 3 bolts which use that bit, visible from under the bonnet there's 3 of them, they secure the heatshield (which also serves as a brace), onto the turbo and the engine.

You'll want some vice grips (mole grips, moll grips, lockjaw grips or whatever you like to call them), to release the hoses off the intake pipes.

Finally, you will also want to lift the front end of the car on some axle stands, never work under a car with just a jack!

If you're not confident, just take it to a garage.

 

Tips for installation / Simple instructions.

First thing you should do is unplug the wastegate connection, that's just behind the back of the intake pipe as it goes into the turbo.

Take off the entire airbox (disconnect the flexi from the turbo intake, and the cold air feed - you'll need those vice-grips for this), it just pops on/off 3 nubbin type things, give it a tug and it comes off easily.

Take off the charge pipe, it's just got two clips on either end, chances are the rubber seal has probably stuck itself, so it might be a bit tough, but once you get it moving it'll come off fine.

Cover the throttle body! You don't want to get anything in there! I stuck a rubber glove over it.

Next, open the coolant reserviour to release any pressure, then follow the pair of metal lines round from the turbo till the rubber lines, move the metal clips an inch or two away from the end, and the rubber hoses will pull off.

Now go ahead and remove all the bolts for the coolant and oil lines (when you're underneath the car, there's a plastic/aluminium heatshield which can be removed by taking out the two bolts, you'll gain a lot more access by removing that).

Pull all the oil and coolant lines off (there's one in particular that's a bit tight - that's what she s....) from the turbo, so no you're just left with the turbo.

Unbolt and remove the heatshield/brace, that's those wierd 12-point torx bits and a couple random 10mm bolts if i remember correctly, and now the only thing left is to remove the turbo from the exhaust.

Now i'd suggest to loosen the exhaust clamp, but don't fully undo it, so when you take off the manifold nuts the turbo can't just drop off - as it's easier to get at the nuts from underneath the car, you don't really want a turbo dropping on your face!

Once you've got the manifold nuts off, you can fully undo the exhaust clamp, it might take a bit of tapping with something metalic to free it up, then you can pull out the turbo (from the top).

If you're replacing the manifold studs, now's the time, they're easily accessible from the top now. Install the shorter threaded side of the new studs into the manifold, the longer side *might* fit, but it also might bottom out (the threads about 25mm and the hole is about 25mm too), in which case you risk cracking the head!

Now just do everything in reverse, but with the new turbo, don't forget the exhaust gaskets! (there's one that goes between the manifold and the turbo, and one metal ring one that goes between the turbo and exhaust).

Putting everything back in was a doddle compared to getting everything back out. It took me 8 hours in total, and I ended up quite sunburnt! Don't go mad with tightening the oil/coolant line bolts, they weren't in particularly tight from factory anyway, if you're really worried put some loctite, just don't over torque them!

Manifold nuts and the exhaust clamp do need to be tight though, exhaust leaks can damage other stuff in the engine bay, make the engine not poorly (incorrect readings from the O2 sensors), and will fail the MOT if you left it that long!

 

Adaptation is advised but not necessarily required for the wastegate (I didn't do it on mine and it's been fine).

Before fitting, ensure the wastegate is able to open and close (it is a fairly stiff mechanism but it is quite possible to move it by hand),

If it's completely stuck then spraying some GT-85 both inside the exhaust housing where the wastegate protudes through, and in the actuator mechanism itself will work wonders and should reduce the chance of limp mode occuring.

[R44YVY]

On 08/06/2020 at 05:48, FabiaGonzales said:

 

1.4 TSI Large Turbos - Avoid - These have a different type of Wastegate actuator, stay away unless someone confirms it works.

04E 145 722 G

04E 145 721 P

04E 145 715 B

04E 145 715 D

04E 145 715 E

04E 145 715 F

04E 145 722 G this P/N Fits perfectly, thanks again for your help 👍🏻

Edited 10 June, 2020 by R44YVY

[FabiaGonzales]

4 hours ago, R44YVY said:

04E 145 722 G this P/N Fits perfectly, thanks again for your help 👍🏻

Wastegate working all good?

[R44YVY]

12 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

Wastegate working all good?

Everything working perfect, your post on how to do it helped massive amounts. Had a little coolant leak after I fitted it but soon fixed that. Topped it up with water going to get some coolant in the morning and should be good to go but can feel the difference already now just waiting for JBS looking like July/august time before the map can be fitted in. 
 

thanks again, your help on this forum is class. 

[Monkey_Dan]

Could this be done without going under the car?

Also I've been looking for a turbo and so.e of the larger ones are listed for the lower output 1.4 which is very confusing 

[pedro1987]

How much power would it have if my 1.2 is with revo and I put the 1.4 with downpipe and intake?

[FabiaGonzales]

1 hour ago, Monkey_Dan said:

Could this be done without going under the car?

Also I've been looking for a turbo and so.e of the larger ones are listed for the lower output 1.4 which is very confusing 

Yeah, have to check the individual part number rather than going off eBay listings and stuff. I'd always advise collecting in person because ive seen a few listings where the pictures are of something different to the part number they quote.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 hour ago, pedro1987 said:

How much power would it have if my 1.2 is with revo and I put the 1.4 with downpipe and intake?

160 with no mods, so id guess like 170? but you'll ideally need it mapping again to take advantage of it, otherwise you won't gain much if anything

[CrisBora]

3 hours ago, pedro1987 said:

How much power would it have if my 1.2 is with revo and I put the 1.4 with downpipe and intake?

 

 

Well well well, look who's here 😁

[Kanerr]

I'm very interested after the mapping! Please keep us posted!

[FabiaGonzales]

2 minutes ago, Kanerr said:

I'm very interested after the mapping! Please keep us posted!

I certainly will, unfortunately i'm a bit strapped for cash at the moment, unexpected £800 household repair (oven exploded and damaged much of the kitchen including a TV - just glad it wasn't a gas oven!).

 

I'm interested to hear myself from anyone else too, then i'll know what to look forward to  

[Kanerr]

Oh damn, thats a bummer. Glad you guys are ok.

 

Just keep us posted 😛

[TheFozzy]

I currently have a 04E 145 715 F turbo, I haven't tried fitting it yet as I'm waiting to start my new modified insurance with Brentacre in July.  I'll let you know how it goes when I get round to it as I'll be doing a full service at the same time and I'll try to document the installation as much as possible. 

[Stuart8]

I’ve had my mk3 1.2 tsi remapped to 135bhp with a Forge induction kit. I now want a bigger turbo, so will I have to have a new map.

[Monkey_Dan]

28 minutes ago, Stuart8 said:

I’ve had my mk3 1.2 tsi remapped to 135bhp with a Forge induction kit. I now want a bigger turbo, so will I have to have a new map.

 

To take full advantage of the bigger turbo you'd need a custom remap. Was your current map a custom job or a generic stage 1 map?

[FabiaGonzales]

29 minutes ago, Stuart8 said:

I’ve had my mk3 1.2 tsi remapped to 135bhp with a Forge induction kit. I now want a bigger turbo, so will I have to have a new map.

Yes to take advantage of it, i'd be wary about putting it on without mapping it though, stock 90/110 boost is that low it isn't a problem running the bigger turbo without mapping, but i don't know how itd handle when remapped to begin with.

[Stuart8]

7 minutes ago, Monkey_Dan said:

 

To take full advantage of the bigger turbo you'd need a custom remap. Was your current map a custom job or a generic stage 1 map?

Pretty sure it was a generic map

[FabiaGonzales]

35 minutes ago, Stuart8 said:

Pretty sure it was a generic map

ADEdmundson will fit the turbo and custom tune it for you, they quoted me £400 for the tuning alone (i already fitted my turbo, but i'm not mapped or anything so it's all good), i'd send them a message (they're on Facebook) and see what they can offer you.

[Monkey_Dan]

I'm having the turbo from the 1 4 fitted Monday and mapped Tuesday. I'm also having my DSG reprogrammed too. Can't wait!

[Fab1493]

On 30/06/2020 at 17:19, Monkey_Dan said:

I'm having the turbo from the 1 4 fitted Monday and mapped Tuesday. I'm also having my DSG reprogrammed too. Can't wait!

I can't wait to hear your results!! 😁

[RobyFow]

On 30/06/2020 at 08:23, FabiaGonzales said:

ADEdmundson will fit the turbo and custom tune it for you, they quoted me £400 for the tuning alone (i already fitted my turbo, but i'm not mapped or anything so it's all good), i'd send them a message (they're on Facebook) and see what they can offer you.

So you fitted the larger turbo on your car but the ECU map is the stock one, the 90 HP version? And you drive the car everyday with no problems, no errors no limp mode or anything like this?

 

I'm asking because in my country (Romania) I found a new turbo (04E 145 721 B) for around 200 euros and I haven't decide it yet which upgrade path to follow.

I have a 2016 Fabia 1.2 TSi 90HP and I want the maximum power and torque I can get without other major changes to the car like stronger clutch or brakes, extra cooling, fuel injectors, induction kit etc. I know the turbo swap is considered a major change, but since I can do it with 200 euros plus 100 labor, and the turbo is brand new ....it's pretty tempting for me...

So if I want around 130 HP is better to remap with the current stock turbo or the remap with the larger turbo is a better choice? I assume that the smaller turbo will be pushed to the max for the same power that the larger turbo will obtain at half of its potential, so it will last longer before it brakes.

 

Do you think I can drive my car a few months with the larger turbo without remap? After a while when my budget will allow it,  I can make a custom map (400 euros)  especially for better boost at lower rpms.

 

What do you think!  

 

 

 

[FabiaGonzales]

1 hour ago, RobyFow said:

So you fitted the larger turbo on your car but the ECU map is the stock one, the 90 HP version? And you drive the car everyday with no problems, no errors no limp mode or anything like this?

 

I'm asking because in my country (Romania) I found a new turbo (04E 145 721 for around 200 euros and I haven't decide it yet which upgrade path to follow.

I have a 2016 Fabia 1.2 TSi 90HP and I want the maximum power and torque I can get without other major changes to the car like stronger clutch or brakes, extra cooling, fuel injectors, induction kit etc. I know the turbo swap is considered a major change, but since I can do it with 200 euros plus 100 labor, and the turbo is brand new ....it's pretty tempting for me...

So if I want around 130 HP is better to remap with the current stock turbo or the remap with the larger turbo is a better choice? I assume that the smaller turbo will be pushed to the max for the same power that the larger turbo will obtain at half of its potential, so it will last longer before it brakes.

 

Do you think I can drive my car a few months with the larger turbo without remap? After a while when my budget will allow it,  I can make a custom map (400 euros)  especially for better boost at lower rpms.

 

What do you think!  

 

 

 

I've had the larger turbo in for i think nearly 2 months now and still on stock 90bhp map. No limp mode, no problems, all been good.

 

The only thing you'll notice at first is you'll lose a bit of low down torque (turbo seems to come in closer to ~1800 rpm instead of ~1400 rpm) and there's a little more lag, but that's to be expected from a larger turbo

 

Can expect to see 170bhp from that turbo, the turbo is safely capable of 185-190bhp on the 1.4tsi engine, it can go further still given a bigger exhaust and intake too.

 

It's your choice, ~130bhp without turbo swap, or ~170bhp with turbo swap, no other changes are required. Torque doesn't increase much from just a remap, it just holds that torque to much higher rpms as the turbo can hold the boost longer. The stock clutch can take the torque fine as long as you don't go doing redline clutch dump lauches and hard shifts everywhere, but that's the same whether it's stock or mapped. Next time i have a clutch done, i'll probably put in a uprated clutch, but its not necessary.

[RobyFow]

Thank you very much for your fast reply.  I will probably start by remaping with stock turbo and if the turbo fails someday I will replace it with a larger one.

The main factor that led me to this decision is the low rpm lack of boost of the larger turbo. What I like the most to my 1.2 tsi engine is that it has enough torque from very low rmp and is so fun and easy to drive in the city. I don't. Want this to change.

 

One weird thing I saw these days during my search for info about the larger turbo is regarding the wastegate actuator; the rod doesn.t have any adjustments, is just one stiff piece of metal.

 

What were you referring when you said "Adaptation is advised but not necessarily required for the wastegate (I didn't do it on mine and it's been fine)." ?

You mean adaptation with vcds? But it seems no mechanical adjustment is possible for the wastegate actuator rod......

 

[FabiaGonzales]

54 minutes ago, RobyFow said:

Thank you very much for your fast reply.  I will probably start by remaping with stock turbo and if the turbo fails someday I will replace it with a larger one.

The main factor that led me to this decision is the low rpm lack of boost of the larger turbo. What I like the most to my 1.2 tsi engine is that it has enough torque from very low rmp and is so fun and easy to drive in the city. I don't. Want this to change.

 

One weird thing I saw these days during my search for info about the larger turbo is regarding the wastegate actuator; the rod doesn.t have any adjustments, is just one stiff piece of metal.

 

What were you referring when you said "Adaptation is advised but not necessarily required for the wastegate (I didn't do it on mine and it's been fine)." ?

You mean adaptation with vcds? But it seems no mechanical adjustment is possible for the wastegate actuator rod......

Adaptation is via VCDS, i didn't do it on mine and i've never had a problem.

 

The low down torque may improve once its mapped, but i cant say yet unfortunately, looking at 2 months from now before we'll find out.

 

There is still decent torque low down from the 1400rpm but it takes much longer for it to come in. I find 1800rpm is where it comes in more readily. Another thing i have noticed is i now get a nice slight induction noise when on boost between 2000-3000 rpm, its still there beyond that but the engine noise drowns that out a bit, i'll assume thatll get louder once it's mapped, and maybe a tad more still once i get a new intake hose made up