24 minutes ago, Arthur124 said:

 

Sounds sort of positive in a way.....  we will have to see what happens next.

 

If this is resolved by updating software on each individual car then it going to be a massive task across numerous manufacturers.......  easily into the hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

 

 

 

 

I expect they would only perform software updates for owners that presented their vehicle to a dealer with this particular problem. Doesn't seem like a recall type issue. Massively reduces the burden on the dealers. Do dealers typically charge for performing software updates? 

1 minute ago, joek666 said:

 

Definitely the most positive response we have had from Skoda to date, although no indication of timescales, which I will push for as and when I get a response myself.

 

Very important that owners keep applying pressure to the manufacturers in order to push this through.

I have had a similar reply above from Audi. They say a software update which makes me think they are switching to INRIX. If this is the case then it seems new maps will also be needed or the location tables will not work.

9 minutes ago, joek666 said:

 

I expect they would only perform software updates for owners that presented their vehicle to a dealer with this particular problem. Doesn't seem like a recall type issue. Massively reduces the burden on the dealers. Do dealers typically charge for performing software updates? 

Yes and they will try to recover any costs of sorting this out.

 

Map update only I would have thought. Very unlikely to require new software.

Does sound positive, but we don’t know how negotiations will go with INRIX.

Explain to me how if someone took their car  to France TMC worked with French stations, it would appear that what it needed was French maps and a French GPS location. No trafficmaster involved. Does that mean we simply need new maps with Inrix code included?  Is a firmware update a red herring or is there actual TMC info held in the firmware for all countries that you could download maps for. That would be a very inflexible solution. As at IT devoleloper I wouldn't do it like that! 

However with Skoda nothing would surprise me! 

It's interesting to note that this message hasn't filtered down to dealership level yet.  I just spoke to my local Skoda dealer (who I have to say have been very good and accepted that a diagnostic would be pointless), and they've checked on their internal bulletins and there's nothing.  But, it does appear to be a step in the right direction.

25 minutes ago, joek666 said:

 

I expect they would only perform software updates for owners that presented their vehicle to a dealer with this particular problem. Doesn't seem like a recall type issue. Massively reduces the burden on the dealers. Do dealers typically charge for performing software updates? 

The matter of charging an interesting one and may well spawn a separate thread when it comes to it.  To my mind, this is an issue created by Skoda (or VAG) themselves and should therefore not be a cost passed on to the customer base.  It may mean a call to Trading Standards when the time comes

14 minutes ago, NigelR99 said:

Is a firmware update a red herring or is there actual TMC info held in the firmware for all countries that you could download maps for. That would be a very inflexible solution. As at IT devoleloper I wouldn't do it like that! 

I think the firmware update is probably a miscommunication.

Having looked in detail at the maps for Audi’s RNSE system (also supplied by Here) the TMC tables are located entirely in the map data, and so no firmware update would be required to change supplier.

So you are correct - to embed this kind of data in the firmware would be a crazy design decision. Especially as I imagine TMC providers update their tables fairly regularly as new junctions and roads get added.

29 minutes ago, NigelR99 said:

Explain to me how if someone took their car  to France TMC worked with French stations, it would appear that what it needed was French maps and a French GPS location.

Correct, I took my MIB1 Amundsen equipped Octavia 3 to France many times and each time it picked up French TMC data and displayed it correctly - even if the data was not totally up-to-date (on one road it was a year out of date!).

Edited 17 May, 20233 yr by PetrolDave

1 hour ago, pcbbc said:

I think the firmware update is probably a miscommunication.

Having looked in detail at the maps for Audi’s RNSE system (also supplied by Here) the TMC tables are located entirely in the map data, and so no firmware update would be required to change supplier.

So you are correct - to embed this kind of data in the firmware would be a crazy design decision. Especially as I imagine TMC providers update their tables fairly regularly as new junctions and roads get added.

I thought you had experimented by changing supplier in the firmware to INRIX and the messages came back but were wrong because of the Trafficmaster tables were not suitable. May have got this wrong but if we get maps with INRIX data how will the firmware find them unless it is switched to receive INRIX? Just asking as I like learning about this stuff.

Exactly same issue on my mums Honda CR-V 

 

24 minutes ago, short1uk said:

Exactly same issue on my mums Honda CR-V 

 

 

This shows graphically that it is not just VAG cars. It is also Honda.....  along with many other manufacturers.  The problem also affects stand alone satnavs that use Trafficmaster RDS TMC (such as Garmin). 

 

As noted earlier, this will affect hundreds of thousands of UK vehicles and satnav owners, as well as those tourists travelling to the UK.

 

As for your mum and her Honda, she has a few options......

 

1. Wait for a fix.

2. Move to France.

3. Move to Italy.

4. Live without Live Traffic.

5. Sell the car !!!!!

 

Let's hope the national press pick up on this soon.

Edited 17 May, 20233 yr by Arthur124

41 minutes ago, Hillbilly23 said:

I thought you had experimented by changing supplier in the firmware to INRIX and the messages came back but were wrong because of the Trafficmaster tables were not suitable. May have got this wrong but if we get maps with INRIX data how will the firmware find them unless it is switched to receive INRIX? Just asking as I like learning about this stuff.

RDS transmits a country code (CC) and extended country code (ECC) which uniquely identify the country the FM station is broadcasting from.  Additionally every TMC provider within a country is assigned a location table number (LTN) to identify the table they are using (only 6 bits so not unique between different countries).

Typically TMC receivers use a combination of CC, ECC and LTN to decide which table to use. If they don’t find a matching table with the correct CC, ECC and LTN in the map database they ignore the received TMC messages.

 

My only reason for hacking the firmware (rather than modifying the map data) was just that was a lot quicker to do.  I’d already modified the firmware to capture all the TMC messages and save to SD card so I could inspect them, so I knew just where to make that change.  Modifying the map data and changing the TrafficMaster LTN (0x07) to the INRIX one (0x0A) would have had the exact same result, but would have needed much more work.

 

Hi, new on here, been reading this thread for a few days now and have learned a lot from all you guys, just wanted to thank you all firstly for all the info provided.

 

I've had the same issue too since end of March/beginning of April (when I noticed it not working) I have a VW CADDY(16)/SEAT LEON(16)/FABIA MONTE CARLO(69), all of which having the same issue, all with different versions of the Mib2/Mib2.5 units, just yesterday I was at my local dealer for something else so I asked the guys at service if they knew anything about the RDS-TMC issue and 2 of them didn't even know what that was and after explaining I asked if anyone else has mentioned having tmc issues and they just said no like they weren't even interested, I've had my caddy map updated to latest version just last week and they said it would be the last update for this unit as it was end of life. (map version 254). So if VAG group release updates how will that effect people with mib2 satnavs and its end of life and no more updates are being made for those vehicles? 

 

Sorry if I haven't been clear enough,

 

Thanks again

 

Neil

56 minutes ago, pcbbc said:

RDS transmits a country code (CC) and extended country code (ECC) which uniquely identify the country the FM station is broadcasting from.  Additionally every TMC provider within a country is assigned a location table number (LTN) to identify the table they are using (only 6 bits so not unique between different countries).

Typically TMC receivers use a combination of CC, ECC and LTN to decide which table to use. If they don’t find a matching table with the correct CC, ECC and LTN in the map database they ignore the received TMC messages.

 

My only reason for hacking the firmware (rather than modifying the map data) was just that was a lot quicker to do.  I’d already modified the firmware to capture all the TMC messages and save to SD card so I could inspect them, so I knew just where to make that change.  Modifying the map data and changing the TrafficMaster LTN (0x07) to the INRIX one (0x0A) would have had the exact same result, but would have needed much more work.

 

Thank you for the explanation. Now I fully understand why the maps are the problem and not the software. It explains why people who go to France get their TMC from French FM stations without the need for software changes as their map LTN codes are already on the maps and set up to work with the stations sending the information.👍

5 minutes ago, MappedCaddy said:

Hi, new on here, been reading this thread for a few days now and have learned a lot from all you guys, just wanted to thank you all firstly for all the info provided.

 

I've had the same issue too since end of March/beginning of April (when I noticed it not working) I have a VW CADDY(16)/SEAT LEON(16)/FABIA MONTE CARLO(69), all of which having the same issue, all with different versions of the Mib2/Mib2.5 units, just yesterday I was at my local dealer for something else so I asked the guys at service if they knew anything about the RDS-TMC issue and 2 of them didn't even know what that was and after explaining I asked if anyone else has mentioned having tmc issues and they just said no like they weren't even interested, I've had my caddy map updated to latest version just last week and they said it would be the last update for this unit as it was end of life. (map version 254). So if VAG group release updates how will that effect people with mib2 satnavs and its end of life and no more updates are being made for those vehicles? 

 

Sorry if I haven't been clear enough,

 

Thanks again

 

Neil

I believe the Audi MMI3G that is in my car was fitted to Audi A1's until 2018 so I doubt a 5 year old vehicle could be classed as "end of life. I also doubt that (I assume) your 2016 vehicles could be classed the same. I have a 2009 Audi A6 and 2023 maps are available. I was going to update my 2021-2022 until I saw this thread and am now hanging on hoping for a version with working TMC.

Hi all, 

Apologies  in advance work a long winded message.

 

Now that I've read all 13 pages I feel a bit like I can set my own TMC company up lol.  🤣

Seriously though, even though we're Seat leon 2017 and arona 2018 owners (with the same problem) I thought I might add my 2p's worth.

Now I like to get my maps updated for free to which I found out how to do via Google, because of rip off Britain not sure if you know but Seat charge you for each and every map update approx £200 per sd card.😳because map care isn't available in the UK. 

Now when I had been searching for a new map, I was on version 1910 and have been for probably about a year as no new maps have been on the seat uk website.  Something I did think was strange was I could download the 2110 version from the seat.com website.... Made me think have they updated anything? I guess I shouldn't really say but if you know how I would update then the 😉overall file would be the same but is there any differences between the new and old... They also if you use a vw program on the pc to download the maps it states that they have needed to change the name of said maps. 

I understand that my post is not going to help a great deal but if your into map data and file changes or if there is any person of managemental directorship that actually wants to help it may well hold the key as to how the VAG group will need to facilitate the roll out of an update. 

Regards
Rob

 

5 hours ago, Lamplite1c said:

Hi all, 

Apologies  in advance work a long winded message.

 

Now that I've read all 13 pages I feel a bit like I can set my own TMC company up lol.  🤣

Seriously though, even though we're Seat leon 2017 and arona 2018 owners (with the same problem) I thought I might add my 2p's worth.

Now I like to get my maps updated for free to which I found out how to do via Google, because of rip off Britain not sure if you know but Seat charge you for each and every map update approx £200 per sd card.😳because map care isn't available in the UK. 

Now when I had been searching for a new map, I was on version 1910 and have been for probably about a year as no new maps have been on the seat uk website.  Something I did think was strange was I could download the 2110 version from the seat.com website.... Made me think have they updated anything? I guess I shouldn't really say but if you know how I would update then the 😉overall file would be the same but is there any differences between the new and old... They also if you use a vw program on the pc to download the maps it states that they have needed to change the name of said maps. 

I understand that my post is not going to help a great deal but if your into map data and file changes or if there is any person of managemental directorship that actually wants to help it may well hold the key as to how the VAG group will need to facilitate the roll out of an update. 

Regards
Rob

 

Usually the changes are new roads and road layouts plus a few more POI (points of interest). The next maps should include new location tables to allow INRIX date over Classic FM to be used. Nobody knows as yet when these will be available.

This is interesting. The latest maps listed  on the Audi website for my MMI3G Basic in my Audi have jumped from 4G0060884AM which was the 2023 version to 4G0060884AN which is also listed as the 2023 version. I am currently on 4G0060884AK which was the 2021-2022 version. Strange to have two updates for the same year.

 

https://shops.audi.com/en_GB/web/zubehoer/p/navigation-update-4g0060884an-11?f=YEAR!2009&category=8052

 

 

12 hours ago, Hillbilly23 said:

I believe the Audi MMI3G that is in my car was fitted to Audi A1's until 2018 so I doubt a 5 year old vehicle could be classed as "end of life. I also doubt that (I assume) your 2016 vehicles could be classed the same. I have a 2009 Audi A6 and 2023 maps are available. I was going to update my 2021-2022 until I saw this thread and am now hanging on hoping for a version with working TMC.

VAG no longer issue map updates for the MIB1 systems fitted to the Octavia until 2016, when questioned they admitted that they only issue map updates for the MIB (and similar) systems for 5 years after they are no longer used in production. It is the MIB systems that they class as end-of-life not the vehicle.

 

If they follow the 5 year rule then map updates will no longer be available for the MIB 2 and MIB2.5 systems after around 2025.

For anyone with a MIB2 Amundsen, have you updated to the latest maps as available in the linked thread below? Any difference to receiving TMC info, or still the same? I have about 0.1% faith that VW group actually proactively updated the latest maps in advance of Trafficmaster stopping TMC broadcasts. But I thought I'd ask nonetheless. If no one has tried it, I'll give it a go. 

 

 

1 minute ago, joek666 said:

For anyone with a MIB2 Amundsen, have you updated to the latest maps as available in the linked thread below? Any difference to receiving TMC info, or still the same? I have about 0.1% faith that VW group actually proactively updated the latest maps in advance of Trafficmaster stopping TMC broadcasts. But I thought I'd ask nonetheless. If no one has tried it, I'll give it a go. 

I've been using the 2024 maps with my MIB2 Amundsen for a couple of weeks and it's made no difference - TMC is still crossed out.

14 hours ago, Lamplite1c said:

Hi all, 

Apologies  in advance work a long winded message.

 

Now that I've read all 13 pages I feel a bit like I can set my own TMC company up lol.  🤣

Seriously though, even though we're Seat leon 2017 and arona 2018 owners (with the same problem) I thought I might add my 2p's worth.

Now I like to get my maps updated for free to which I found out how to do via Google, because of rip off Britain not sure if you know but Seat charge you for each and every map update approx £200 per sd card.😳because map care isn't available in the UK. 

Now when I had been searching for a new map, I was on version 1910 and have been for probably about a year as no new maps have been on the seat uk website.  Something I did think was strange was I could download the 2110 version from the seat.com website.... Made me think have they updated anything? I guess I shouldn't really say but if you know how I would update then the 😉overall file would be the same but is there any differences between the new and old... They also if you use a vw program on the pc to download the maps it states that they have needed to change the name of said maps. 

I understand that my post is not going to help a great deal but if your into map data and file changes or if there is any person of managemental directorship that actually wants to help it may well hold the key as to how the VAG group will need to facilitate the roll out of an update. 

Regards
Rob

 

You got Exciter to thank for that in 2017 when he cracked it. All Seat sites publish that now. Was called the "workaround" by the Seat Cupra site. Seat UK for mib2 decided not to sell Mapcare. It's bundled in free with VW and Skoda. Audi and Seat elected to continue to sting owners if they wanted to upgrade their maps. In Europe they sold Mapcare which gave you a 3 year license of updates. Another way of cracking it is to add long life navigation FeCs which is what VW and Skoda have. Those cracks are now known for mib2.

 

There are some infotainment VCDS flags you can change for the traffic services. I guess some one has looked at this ?. In the 5F unit. Suspect some bright folk might have thought of that. It's how you anchor the unit to paid traffic services. Needs someone to experiment may be ?.

Edited 18 May, 20233 yr by Tell

Interesting read here for anyone who wants to have a go:

 

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/enabling-tmc-in-the-uk-is-it-possible.386243/page-3

A bit more progress to report -

 

03866452

 

 

AO

Audi Executive Office <*****@*****.tld>

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To:

• You

 

Thu 18/05/2023 13:51

 

Ref: 03866452

Dear Mr Powell

Thank you for your recent with contact with Audi Germany. As your email address which you have submitted on the enquiry is that of a UK address, Audi Germany have sent your details to Audi UK to respond on their behalf, as you would fall under the UK jurisdiction.

As Audi UK's Director, Andrew has asked me to personally investigate the matters raised and ensure that you have a dedicated point of contact. I would like to assure you that, as a member of the Executive Office, I am empowered to act on Andrew’s behalf and will of course seek to bring your concern to a resolution.

In order for me to progress your case in a timely manner, may I please request some additional information from you?   Your vehicles registration or VIN number.  Your full address with postcode.  My details are at the bottom of this email should you need to provide any further information. If not, I will be in touch again within the next 48 hours, after I have reviewed your correspondence fully.


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