Tracking & alignment

[Macsamillion]

Got a puncture on the rear of the car (2018,estate,280 45k) took it for repair tonight. Whilst wheel was off noticed the inside edges of both my rear tyres are badly worn. Garage says the alignment must be out. I had new shocks a few weeks ago but think the wear must have been happening before?

They are advising I get new tyres and a 4wd alignment done. Not what I was expecting heading for a 20 quid repair. Has anyone seen Similiar issues? 

[Gammyleg]

Yes had the same problem. New shocks seem to have fixed it.

I don't believe the rear alignment can be adjusted.

[ApertureS]

6 hours ago, Gammyleg said:

Yes had the same problem. New shocks seem to have fixed it.

I don't believe the rear alignment can be adjusted.

Yeah the rear axle can be adjusted in all directions either by moving arm locations or by adjusting eccentric bolts.

 

How much load are you normally putting in the car? If it’s a lot, it has a tendency to push the wheels outwards which causes inside edge scrubbing 

[Macsamillion]

4 hours ago, ApertureS said:

Yeah the rear axle can be adjusted in all directions either by moving arm locations or by adjusting eccentric bolts.

 

How much load are you normally putting in the car? If it’s a lot, it has a tendency to push the wheels outwards which causes inside edge scrubbing 

I don`t have any abnormal heavy loads, normally just dogs. Don`t tow anything. Going to contact a garage who does alignment on 4wd cars and see what they say. Slightly frustrating that i still have about 5mm on my rear tyres. Need to check the rules again on tread 

[J.R.]

10 hours ago, Gammyleg said:

Yes had the same problem. New shocks seem to have fixed it.

 

New shock absorbers will not make any difference whatsoever to the camber, castor, toe in or thrust angle of the rear suspension, not one iota.

 

Loading the vehicle sagging springs or lowered springs will all create adverse wear to the inside of the rear tyres.

[Gammyleg]

 

 

6 hours ago, Macsamillion said:

Yeah the rear axle can be adjusted in all directions either by moving arm locations or by adjusting eccentric bolts.

 

I stand corrected. I was sure I'd read on here that it wasn't possible. Another model perhaps.

 

Your new shocks could well remedy the situation. You could leave it at that and monitor the tyre wear over a period time to confirm. I'd only opt for wheel alignment if the problem looks like it is returning.

No point in spending money on something that's not required.

 

 

[langers2k]

1 hour ago, Gammyleg said:

I stand corrected. I was sure I'd read on here that it wasn't possible. Another model perhaps.

 

It depends if you have a rear beam or multi-link suspension at the rear

 

Given the OP has a 4x4, that'll mean they get multi-link and the full range of adjustments.

[Macsamillion]

2 hours ago, langers2k said:

 

It depends if you have a rear beam or multi-link suspension at the rear

 

Given the OP has a 4x4, that'll mean they get multi-link and the full range of adjustments.

So I should get the tracking checked? Earlier post suggests that it can only be caused by over loading or defective springs. 

[langers2k]

Plenty of places will do free alignment checks so it might be worth it for piece of mind.

[Macsamillion]

Well got the alignment checked and the rear was out. £60 to adjust. Hopefully that's it now. 

[MunsterScot]

I had the same sort of issue on my 2017 190tdi Sportline combi.  Inside edge of rear tyres wearing.  Cupping I think it is called.  4 wheel alignment done and the rear drivers side was slightly out but not much.  Shocks are Koni special actives and only about 2 years old.  I'd to replace the front springs just over two years ago as the drivers side snapped.  Rear springs are the originals.  I don't carry heavy loads (at least not often) and I don't have a tow bar. 

 

Could it be worn / saggy rear springs causing the issue with the rear types cupping? 

 

I've rotated the wheels for now so the new tyres are on the back and the old cupped tyres are on the front.  A bit of extra road noise from the front but hopping that will go as the tyres wear.    

[Ootohere]

@MunsterScotI hope when the rain comes tonight and the colder weather in the next weeks your car steers and brakes OK with those on the front.

 

The experts and tyre fitters and many here will tell you good / new tyres to the rear only.

 

IMO what a load of guff with FWD, AWD vehicles, and even with RWD,s i want good on the rear and the front as i still use the front for steering and braking and if i lose the tail i can maybe do something while i still have traction / braking / steering.

[MunsterScot]

@toot I had read that the recommendation was to always put the new tyres on the rear.  Hence moving the new tyres to the rear and putting the old ones on the front.  I'll see how it goes.  I'll probably end up getting new tyres on the front as well . 

[Carlston]

1 hour ago, MunsterScot said:

@toot I had read that the recommendation was to always put the new tyres on the rear.  Hence moving the new tyres to the rear and putting the old ones on the front.  I'll see how it goes.  I'll probably end up getting new tyres on the front as well . 

 

It's best to start with four matching new tyres and rotate them so that they wear out together.

 

You might want to choose the two innings method, the three innings method, or the four innings method. I prefer the three innings method.

 

Notice that with the three innings method, the second innings lasts twice as long as the first and third innings. However, with all three methods all the tyres will be on the front and back for 20,000 miles.

 

The below examples assume that the tyres will last 40,000 miles.

 

With the two innings method, the tread depths will be more mismatched at some points than the other methods.

 

I prefer the three innings method to the four innings method because the tread depths are just as closely matched, but you only need to rotate the tyres twice rather than three times.

 

Notice that with the three innings method, the second innings lasts twice as long as the first and third innings.

 

Two innings method

First innings

Drive 20,000 miles

Second innings

Drive 20,000 miles

 

Three innings method

First innings

Drive 10,000 miles

Second innings

Drive 20,000 miles

Third innings

Drive 10,000 miles

 

Four innings method

First innings

Drive 10,000 miles

Second innings

Drive 10,000 miles

Third innings

Drive 10,000 miles

Fourth innings

Drive 10,000 miles

 

Edited 23 September, 2023 by Carlston

[ArisaigDavid]

I generally use my car for outings.

 

Sorry, I just couldn't help it.

[J.R.]

I would fall asleep at the wheel long before I reached even a first innings of 10000 miles.

 

What are you supposed to do between innings? Drink beer in the clubhouse?

[Carlston]

Here are some example numbers, to illustrate the three innings method.

 

To keep the maths simple, I will assume that the tyre's new tread depth is 8mm and the legal limit is 2mm.

 

I will assume the front tyre wears down by 2mm every 10,000 miles and the rear tyre wears down by 1mm every 10,000 miles, ie. the front wheel drive car is wearing down the front tyres twice as quickly as the rear tyres.

 

Three innings method

First innings

Drive 10,000 miles (after first innings tread depths are as follows...front tyre 6mm, rear tyre 7mm)

Second innings

Drive 20,000 miles (after second innings tread depths are as follows...front tyre 3mm, rear tyre 4mm)

Third innings

Drive 10,000 miles (after third innings tread depths are as follows...front tyre 2mm, rear tyre 2mm)

 

In case this isn't clear, the front tyre in the first innings becomes the rear tyre in the second innings and the front tyre in the third innings.

 

Similarly, the rear tyre in the first innings becomes the front tyre in the second innings and the rear tyre in the third innings.

 

Notice that at the end of each innings, the difference in tread depth is no more than 1mm. So at all times the tread depths are closely matched.

 

Edited 23 September, 2023 by Carlston

[Donweather]

On 21/09/2023 at 04:47, Macsamillion said:

Got a puncture on the rear of the car (2018,estate,280 45k) took it for repair tonight. Whilst wheel was off noticed the inside edges of both my rear tyres are badly worn. Garage says the alignment must be out. I had new shocks a few weeks ago but think the wear must have been happening before?

They are advising I get new tyres and a 4wd alignment done. Not what I was expecting heading for a 20 quid repair. Has anyone seen Similiar issues? 

What tyres pressures do you generally

run, particularly on the rears?  Rears generally setup with a high camber and hence inside wear. Other thread on here indicates higher tyre pressures assisted others in reducing this inside wear somewhat. 

[Macsamillion]

47 minutes ago, Donweather said:

What tyres pressures do you generally

run, particularly on the rears?  Rears generally setup with a high camber and hence inside wear. Other thread on here indicates higher tyre pressures assisted others in reducing this inside wear somewhat. 

I'm running 2.6bar all round as per the plate on the car for reduced load. I did find the Tyre pressure a bit lower when I discovered I had puncture and checked others. Maybe they have been adjusted wrongly at a service without me knowing. Keeping an eye on wear now I have tracking done and pressures set. 

[Ootohere]

It is very common at a service that your tyre pressures are messed with / reset by someone who does not know how your car is used or loaded and you are not told.

Always check tyre pressures and reset if needed after a service, tyre fitting or anyone else touching your car and reset the tyre pressures.

(Barstewards let my All Season tyres down to a crazy low pressure on my last car at a service before hand back, i had just set them the day before it went in.)

 

Always check the Oil level after a service and the coolant level.

Never assume the correct quantity is in, they can underfill or overfill the oil and with coolant often top up to MAX and then it ends up resetting it,s own level where it eas before they touched it.

[Macsamillion]

21 minutes ago, toot said:

It is very common at a service that your tyre pressures are messed with / reset by someone who does not know how your car is used or loaded and you are not told.

Always check tyre pressures and reset if needed after a service, tyre fitting or anyone else touching your car and reset the tyre pressures.

(Barstewards let my All Season tyres down to a crazy low pressure on my last car at a service before hand back, i had just set them the day before it went in.)

 

Always check the Oil level after a service and the coolant level.

Never assume the correct quantity is in, they can underfill or overfill the oil and with coolant often top up to MAX and then it ends up resetting it,s own level where it eas before they touched it.

Seems like very good advice toot, and I must admit I have become a little lazy over the last few years and guilty of assuming people working on your car do the right thing. My job involves me  checking that people do what's asked and generally they need a bit prompting or some sort of follow up. We are all human after all. 

[brettikivi]

my one front left has worn visually more than the others; but the knackered ball joint was on the other side. I'll be replacing at least the pair of tyres next spring when they get put back on.

As far as rotation's concerned, anyone with Winters is not going to be affected; there are also still some directional tyres out there.  Currently running Turanza 005s, with 32000kms on. They were 5.xmm when I measured and you can really feel that they're ageing on wet roads. Surprised it's that high mileage. Alignment was done when they fixed the joint and the car feels much better now. Didn't notice any strange wear patterns. Need to check pressures but they were 2.7 all-round and they should have set them before the alignment, so...

[numskull]

2.6 all round on the Conti All Seasons unless the cars loaded and on a long fast run, then they go upto 2.8.

[Carlston]

11 minutes ago, numskull said:

2.6 all round on the Conti All Seasons unless the cars loaded and on a long fast run, then they go upto 2.8.

 

On the Superb MK3 280HP, the speed rating of the tyres will be either W (168mph) or Y (186mph) unless they are winter rated where the speed rating might only be V (150mph).

 

So I wouldn't call the national speed limit (for dual carriageways) of 70mph fast in relation to the speed capability of the tyres.

 

150mph on the German autobahn and the tyres are starting to get closer to their design limit, but 70mph really isn't fast for a W/Y speed rated tyre.

 

Edited 30 September, 2023 by Carlston

[MunsterScot]

I've got a 2017 2.0 TDi 190Bhp Combi and run 2.5 bar on all corners as usually there is only two people in the car.  Do you think increasing the rears to 2.8 bar might reduce the issue I'm getting with wear / cupping on the inside edge of the rears?