Had to sit a while in the main dealer service reception - something I’ve done a few times over the last 6 years - and had to smile whilst eavesdropping on the conversations when collecting / paying.

Nothing has changed over the years, almost everyone gets the same alert on their free safety check - ‘we’ve noticed your battery charge is poor, battery is in good condition so it could be too many short journeys, have you got a battery charger? If not we can do the job for (currently) £40’.

As expected, when it came to my turn, I got the same spiel when I came to pay.

I’m thinking either ŠKODA are using poor quality batteries else the charging systems are too cautious.

Is it just my dealer or does anyone else hear the same thing?

We all hear the same thing! it's just the dealers trying to make money.

To improve the wltp figures by a gnats, the BMS targets around an 80% state of charge and then reduces to trickle charge. Only when you do a long journey does the battery ever get to full charge.

It's normal, all manufacturers do it.

If the battery really is low then keyless entry gets disabled on the passenger side and start stop gets disabled.

 

Which car???

 

Do you use 'Stop-Start ???

 

Assuming you are speaking of the 12v battery, it is very easy to get the state of the battery checked at (assuming) any local garage.

Edited 11 February, 20251 yr by Tilt

I am not one for defending Dealerships, usually quite the opposite but no it's modern drivers (and older drivers that have forgot) that have no idea about electric consumption in (home or) car.  Also mainly a male thing (machoism, ego, arrogance or any combination of the three) of being incapable of reading instruction manuals for the car (or battery chargers).

 

Can't blame those that don't know as we all learnt for a first time.

 

The German marques particularly have had for decades over complex computer systems now with start/stop and all the driver electric comforts and "aids" and "assists" on the cars the consumption and work for the battery (and alternator) can be very high particularly this time of year, just turning the electric powered steering uses a fair bit of power).

 

Many modern and older drivers think that if the engine starts and the lights seem bright enough then the battery won't be in a low state of charge which is wrong. 

 

The computers don't like a low state of charge and can play up from this by throwing up all sorts of unexpected warnings and lights and unseen error codes and cause issues and problems.

 

First sign of low state of battery charge is the stop/start doesn't work when it should but most ignore this, it might go away with driving the car only to return again and be ignored again until the battery gets too low. 

 

VW making revenue and profits out of spare put in the book to change the 12v at 5 years then 4 years (might be 3 by new for all I know) so if the Dealership is promoting the use of (appropriate) battery chargers (maintainers) is at least a small step in the right direction.  The reason they may offer this service is vast experience of car owners and drivers and their often lack of carrying out driver maintenance on the vehicles.

 

A quick recharge of the battery at the Dealership is better than nothing but if the battery is in low a good depth and long(er) lasting  low (amps) slow recharge on a battery charger takes hours and can take very many hours.

 

Charging (or recharging with an appropriate charger maintainer) may also need to be done after very hot weather in the summer.

 

But for winter here's why they might offer. -

 

 

Don't forget that VAG pure ICE vehicles from at least 2015 are actually micro-hybrids, the battery charging system is designed to use energy recuperation, which is why alternator charging is restricted to approx. 75% battery max SOC.

Mine is 2015 EU5 emission control and does not have stop start, looks like I dodged a bullet.

My point was more that seemingly everyone using the service dept are advised their batteries need charging - In my case today I was told it needed charging despite last Friday I'd done 240 miles and not used the vehicle over the weekend - whilst I wasn't told the actual figure/charge I find it hard to believe that every time I have work done (all too often!) I get the same 'battery needs charging' advice. 

3 hours ago, Berisford said:

My point was more that seemingly everyone using the service dept are advised their batteries need charging - In my case today I was told it needed charging despite last Friday I'd done 240 miles and not used the vehicle over the weekend - whilst I wasn't told the actual figure/charge I find it hard to believe that every time I have work done (all too often!) I get the same 'battery needs charging' advice. 

 

You are quite right, it is up-selling of a service in much the same way as McDonalds' employees automatically encouraging larger portions (that you may not want).

 

However, as others have already pointed out modern cars with stop/start and numerous other electronic loads and devices do require more expensive versions (EFB or AGM) than the traditional flooded lead-acid type to support the extra requirements. Also bear in mind that stop/start has largely been implemented by the manufacturers to meet increasingly severe pollution and consumption requirements.

Anecdotal comments in Briskoda suggest that stop/start equipped vehicles battery life (even with the much expensive EFB or AGM types) can be as short as two years or longer than 5 years, depending on vehicle usage patterns.

 

Occasional charging on an advanced charging systems (presumably those used by the dealers) can reduce sulfation present in lead acid batteries and theoretically extend their life. They may also detect a failing battery and offer a relatively high-priced replacement.

 

There are two ways of looking at this: a) cynically, which I fully understand or b) this is offering preventative maintenance for the many owners that do not know anything, or even care, about vehicle maintenance but would complain vociferously when their battery fails in inconvenient circumstances soon after a vehicle service, which Murphy's law dictates is 'always'.

 

Reading above, I think @nta16 put it better than I did lol

Edited 12 February, 20251 yr by Gerrycan
Acknowledging @nta16

I do understand your cynicism as I have enough bad experiences with the English motor trade to have a mountain of it but do have to give credit where it's deserved. OK yes it might be just upselling but if it is needed then it is, if is not of course that is another matter and if they want to sell it or actually offer a service then yes they need to give more information as an explanation of the benefit or need.

 

In this case you put that they asked if you have a battery charger so it's not an out and out up sell, if they are finally advising customers about the need for battery recharging on these modern cars it is a good thing because as I put before many older drivers have forgot about this simple easy, clean hands car maintenance that can save a lot of time, hassle and money from car problems and breakdowns.

 

It may also be the case that older drivers don't realise the greater need with the more modern cars but they should know really, where does the energy come from for all the driver comforts, "aids" and "assists",  Just think of a list of all the electric items on a modern car, just with the buttons you can press to use them let alone all the ones the car itself uses. 

 

Let me assure you that from a previous life and experience generally I know that not all customers are great and many just want the bare minimum done to the vehicle often they don't really even the bare minimum but are forced into for some reason and even then they may ignore things like safety and statutory requirements and it's not a matter of they can't financially afford it.

 

16 hours ago, Berisford said:

In my case today I was told it needed charging despite last Friday I'd done 240 miles and not used the vehicle over the weekend - whilst I wasn't told the actual figure/charge

Obviously I have no idea of the state of charge of your battery and the Dealership could have been trying it on (again) but it is possible that the battery might need recharging it depends on many varying factors, or it might not desperately need recharging but might be best recharged.  To force the undersized boot on to the other foot you did not have the figures for state of charge to know anyway, which is bad on their part.  Also state of charge is not the full story about the battery but an indicator.

 

There are many threads and posts on Briskoda for the various models of the issues that a battery in low state of charge has caused with the poster often unaware that the low state of charge is the cause of these unexpected warning lights, messages, error codes and issue(s).  Of course not all issues are caused by low state of charge but many more than the average driver realises, the car 12v battery is very important and always has been but especially now on a more recent modern car.

 

16 hours ago, Berisford said:

I find it hard to believe that every time I have work done (all too often!) I get the same 'battery needs charging' advice. 

That may or may not be the case with your car, I can't know, or it could be a con I would never rule this out, but certainly there are many cars where it could well be the case that the battery needs recharging, to be more dishonest they would try to sell a new battery.

 

I've not seen battery replacement mentioned at 2 years but I have 3, even VW put 4 years but there is no reason why those batteries could not have lasted a lot longer by the use of recharging, best done as a preventative measure than a distress need.

 

Some people prefer to just use, abuse and neglect the 12v battery and replace it which is fine and their choice, to me that seems wasteful and expensive but it keeps the economy going round.

 

So have you checked your battery to see if it does need recharging, that of course would be now rather than when at the Dealership.

 

Edited 12 February, 20251 yr by nta16
missing words

25 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Let me assure you that from a previous life

 

 

You been reincarnated???

 

Start another thread please let us know your experiences, Lol.

43 minutes ago, Tilt said:

You been reincarnated???

Yes I must have been many times and each time I must have been very bad or evil to have suffered with the British motor trade so much in this life.  😣

 

My dealer gave me the story, with my Octavia, but did not try to sell me a charger. Went to my company’s regular auto electrician and battery supplier, they tested battery and confirmed it was not happy! They then sold me a battery charger/conditioner, and that is the important issue. You need to recondition the battery, not just a trickle charge, like in the old days. Connected the charger/conditioner, selected type of battery (important!), and off it went. Next morning, all green lights and job done. I only do about 3000 miles a year, in my cars, and mainly local trips, so makes sense. Never a problem with my van, as that does zillions of miles a year!

11 hours ago, Choclab said:

My dealer gave me the story, with my Octavia, but did not try to sell me a charger. Went to my company’s regular auto electrician and battery supplier, they tested battery and confirmed it was not happy! They then sold me a battery charger/conditioner, and that is the important issue. You need to recondition the battery, not just a trickle charge, like in the old days. Connected the charger/conditioner, selected type of battery (important!), and off it went. Next morning, all green lights and job done. I only do about 3000 miles a year, in my cars, and mainly local trips, so makes sense. Never a problem with my van, as that does zillions of miles a year!

Just to clarify Choclab, they wanted £40 to ‘charge’ my battery, not to sell me a charger - in fact they do sell chargers, a CTEK look alike, but with a 3 figure price tag!

2 minutes ago, Berisford said:

Just to clarify Choclab, they wanted £40 to ‘charge’ my battery, not to sell me a charger - in fact they do sell chargers, a CTEK look alike, but with a 3 figure price tag!

Presumably with a very high rate, bulk charger - which must be used very carefully to avoid damaging the battery by overcharging.

13 hours ago, Choclab said:

not just a trickle charge,

Yes you want an appropriate charger maintainer and fully recharge the battery by following the instructions in your car's 'Owner's Manual' and charger's instructions.  Best to recharge the battery fully at a low rate of amps (2, 3, 4-amps) which may take very many hours,

 

 

13 hours ago, Choclab said:

You need to recondition the battery, not just a trickle charge, like in the old days

I'm going to disagree there, not necessarily, you have to over-use, abuse or neglect the battery a lot to need to set the charger to anything like a recondition/recovery mode.  With this you are reacting to the situation whereas it's better to be proactive with very occasional recharges to fully charged, more are needed in the case of vehicles not used frequently and/or on short journeys.  A "smart" (no devices are really smart} charger maintainer will generally do all this is required unless the battery is in an extremely low state of charge and health  then you might need special settings but then they might or might not work, for the average car owner best never to get the battery that bad and if so replace it and learn from the mistake.

 

 

13 hours ago, Choclab said:

selected type of battery (important!),

 Not required on a "smart" charger and these chargers don't need to be over-priced like the CTek, Lidl/Aldi sold perfectly good ones for very low prices or as just one example here's one from Ring Automotive Ltd. (I see 15% is off at the moment making it an even better price). - Smartcharger 4 -  https://shop.ringautomotive.com/rsc904-4a-smart-battery-charger-maintainer.html

 

Edited 13 February, 20251 yr by nta16
typo

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Not required on a "smart" charger and these chargers don't need to be over-priced like the CTek,

Also @Choclab A quick skim on Amazon found chargers from basic but adequate for ~£16 up to CTeks at £145. I presume that for that money the CTeks have platinum cored cables?  

If you really want to buy a Smart battery charger , these https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maypole-7423A-Battery-Charger-Electronic/dp/B009A83P1E

get good reviews and are UK manufactured.

What annoys me is it shouldn't be necessary, even with all the electrical requirements on modern vehicles (and don't forget LED lights take far less than the old ones), the alternator would be perfectly capable of keeping the battery charged (even on short journeys!) if it wasnt 'throttled' by the BMS system to reduce load on the engine in the cause of 'fiddling' manufacturers consumption figures ! The miniscule saving that the customer may make will be obliterated by the cost of a charger and leccy to run it.

Edited 13 February, 20251 yr by NottsIan

Then be smart and disconnect the current sensing shunt lead to revert to a standard battery charging profile.

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Then be smart and disconnect the current sensing shunt lead to revert to a standard battery charging profile.

 

 

If that is done, are there other mitigations in the system to stop the battery being charged when it's full?

It doesnt need to be anything that drastic. All it needs is the ability to set the target SOC to say 90% instead of 80% for vehicles doing low mileages. It could either be the ECU doing it automatically or the user being able to set it from the vehicle settings menu.

 

My understanding is no, it will revert to exactly how an alternator should behave.

 

Other more knowledgeable people may correct me.

 

Ah sorry, I misread your question, same answer, it will behave exactly as an alternator with a voltage regulator, whether it has a physical voltage regulator or the control module does it I dont know

9 minutes ago, J.R. said:

My understanding is no, it will revert to exactly how an alternator should behave.

 

Other more knowledgeable people may correct me.

 

Ah sorry, I misread your question, same answer, it will behave exactly as an alternator with a voltage regulator, whether it has a physical voltage regulator or the control module does it I dont know

 

I asked the question because many moons ago we used to have to top up battery fluid when the solution had boiled away from prolonged charging. Nowadays the batteries are sealed so makes it difficult. maybe that is what this BMS  "nonsense" is all about? To protect the battery from overcharge but maintaining it at enough to start the car?

 

As you say it's difficult to be certain . Was the boiling away before because of failed voltage regulators and has the VR been replaced by the BMS?

 

 

A great deal of battery problems are caused by people buying a new one and getting it wrong.

 

E:G car specifications may say it needs an 096 and they look for a reasonably priced one and end up with

 

 

Because it's "The same size" 😉 but costs less.

 

But they needed

 

 

They will both start the 2.0l diesel when new and fully charged.

 

But there is no way they will be as reliable as each other.

 

096 just means 278L x 175W x 175H which many don't realise.

The problem with modern cars is that the battery is only charging under certain circumstances, most commonly on overrun.  The alternator will not be making power all the time, only when the system allows it.  With the system not permanently producing power short journeys may not, therefore, put enough charge into the battery.  

I mainly do short journeys and stop/start rarely activates.  I needed to do a longer journey last week and for a short period the start/stop began working again. 

I don't worry about it. 

tom

@J.R. A "standard voltage regulator" should stop an alternator charging a lead-acid accumulator past 99% capacity.

 

@Stonekeeper There are/were 2 main causes of cells "boiling":-

1. Failed regulator. You'll easily find discussions of this issue on the Felicia, Favorit et al (and I think RWD) fora on this very website.
2. Sulphonated cell(s). I've seen this and was allowed to diagnose the issue using stand-alone meters. Thank you grandpa, for supplying the devices and allowing me to self-educate, and Mr Pringle for contributing the failed battery.