Free electricity?

[Chriswright03]

Read the second half of this article and the comments from the legal expert:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33510792/a-man-was-arrested-for-charging-his-phone-on-a-train-why

 

Or do you know better?

I am sorry I do not understand what you are getting at here.  I am saying you cannot steal electricity because it cannot be physically touched hence the reason for the offence of unlawful abstraction.  So are you saying that it can be stolen? 

 

I think the years I have spent dealing with this sort of thing and the training I had for it mean I understand the law quite well.  Because it is part of the Theft Act 1968 does not mean by definition it can be stolen and I will repeat that is why the separate offence was created presumably because someone was found not guilty on a technicality many years ago.

 

Not trying to be difficult here but your post does not actually tell me what your argument is.

[Llanigraham]

I am pointing out that the legal expert quoted in the BBC article seems to disagree with your view.

 

And to be pedantic he was re-arrested for his unacceptable behaviour with the PCSO and the BTP Officers.

[Rustynuts]

I see no mention by any expert of "Stealing" anything? Only place in that article mentioning stealing electricity is "A community support officer said: 'Do you know you're stealing electricity?'".

[Chriswright03]

I am pointing out that the legal expert quoted in the BBC article seems to disagree with your view.

 

And to be pedantic he was re-arrested for his unacceptable behaviour with the PCSO and the BTP Officers.

OK so which part of what I say is the legal expert disagreeing with?

 

Also my discussion is nothing to do with what he was arrested for and I have never mentioned that at all.

[Llanigraham]

This paragraph perhaps?:

 

Abstracting of electricity

The offence of abstracting of electricity is part of the Theft Act 1968 in England and Wales, and carries a possible prison sentence.

It says: "A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."

Ed says the most common cases of abstracting of electricity are people bypassing an electricity meter by rewiring it, or cannabis factories tapping into a nearby electricity supply. Another is powering sound systems at illegal raves.

[vxh26]

Mr Lee told Sky News he had no regrets about using the plug socket on the train, saying: "I would do it again."

 

I suspect that were Mr. Lee to do so, having been told that the plugs in question were not intended for use by the public he would be prosecuted.

 

It is interesting to see how much variation there is in reporting the "facts" in this case.

[Chriswright03]

This paragraph perhaps?:

 

Abstracting of electricity

The offence of abstracting of electricity is part of the Theft Act 1968 in England and Wales, and carries a possible prison sentence.

It says: "A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."

Ed says the most common cases of abstracting of electricity are people bypassing an electricity meter by rewiring it, or cannabis factories tapping into a nearby electricity supply. Another is powering sound systems at illegal raves.

So what you are saying is the same as me then.  Unlawful abstraction of electricity is an offence.  What I am saying is it is not by definition in law theft because it cannot be stolen.  I shall not bore you with the legal definition of theft as it is out there if you want to find it but I assure you I do know what it is and it is also fact that you cannot steal something you cannot touch.

 

I have been saying it is an offence but it isn't stealing but that seems to be troubling you for some reason.  What you have posted above just highlights what I have said all along.  So back to your first post where you said I was wrong when I said you cannot steal electricity I think you will find in law I am right and you seem to be being obtuse for some reason or just unable to understand the difference between the definition of stealing and unlawful abstraction.

 

I am also at a loss to understand why you posted this.

 

 

And to be pedantic he was re-arrested for his unacceptable behaviour with the PCSO and the BTP Officers.

 

 

It would seem you appear determined to argue with me for some reason yet I have explained what the legal position is.  It would appear you are not going to be satisfied with my explanation so I shall not waste any more of my time on this.

[fabiamk2SE]

Go on then Phil go for it. It is called unlawful abstraction of electricity because to steal something you have to be able to physically touch it. You cannot do that hence it is not theft. It is still a criminal offence as many people I met in the course of my previous employ will testify to.

PS I did say pedantic.

You can touch it

I touched it once

I wouldnt like to do it again, and it wasnt pleasant, but i know it was there... I felt it.

[BO60BYS]

We have plug sockets on some of our buses now too.

 

Thats a new one

[Auric Goldfinger]

If anyone plugs a phone/laptop into one of our trains we loose power and the lights dim

[mac11irl]

If anyone plugs a phone/laptop into one of our trains we loose power and the lights dim

Thats coz yer trains are running at minimummpower production ... id love to see what would happen if someone plugged in a kettle...

[FUBAR]

This paragraph perhaps?:

 

Abstracting of electricity

The offence of abstracting of electricity is part of the Theft Act 1968 in England and Wales, and carries a possible prison sentence.

It says: "A person who dishonestly uses without due authority, or dishonestly causes to be wasted or diverted, any electricity shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years."

Ed says the most common cases of abstracting of electricity are people bypassing an electricity meter by rewiring it, or cannabis factories tapping into a nearby electricity supply. Another is powering sound systems at illegal raves.

As I read it, Chris was just pointing out why the specific offence is called 'abstracting electricity' rather than 'stealing electricity' or 'theft of electricity', not that the entire thing is not an offence. Just that it's named as such due to it not having a physical presence. Same as for when people tap into someone else's electricity supply etc.

[Chriswright03]

You can touch it

I touched it once

I wouldnt like to do it again, and it wasnt pleasant, but i know it was there... I felt it.

As an electrician I once knew said to me when I told him I had an electric shock once "You haven't had a proper one because if you had you wouldn't be here".

 

Anyway I think this thread is shocking. Watt!

[fabiamk2SE]

As an electrician I once knew said to me when I told him I had an electric shock once "You haven't had a proper one because if you had you wouldn't be here".

Anyway I think this thread is shocking. Watt!

True that.

Mine was off a syncron motor on a heating system. Not sure on the amps, but it was 240v.

It was enough for me haha.

Had it off some live pipes in an old house once too. Just wasnt expecting the gas pipe to be wired to the mains haha.

Edited 14 July, 2015 by fabiamk2SE

[@Lee]

If anyone plugs a phone/laptop into one of our trains we loose power and the lights dim

I call bs, you're still cooking your eggs n bacon on a shovel :yes:

[Scribbler]

 

It would seem you appear determined to argue with me for some reason yet I have explained what the legal position is.  It would appear you are not going to be satisfied with my explanation so I shall not waste any more of my time on this.

 

I Notice he hasn't replied to this I think he caught a glimpse of himself in the mirror and in currently embattled in a protracted argument with himself over who should move out of the way first. But Kudos for sticking in there with your explanation it seemed self explanatory to me without the need for clarification but I agree with your distinction.

 

What happens when the train stops does it have capacity to save the excess electricity generated? I would say probably not therefor the electricity supply is a transient state and I think they were being a bit of an arse for not letting him use the electric point seeing as it would be wasted. Surely its more sustainable to use the excess electric generated on the train (assuming diesel) than hook up to the mains at destination. Storm in a teacup if you ask me and some pcso's can get ideas above their station and laydown the law when a bit of objectivity and common sense might have prevailed. Its sometimes more important how a person talks to you rather than the words involved. The same could be true for the offender also.