What do you think of autos?

[IllusionEntity]

I have just been in an auto and up a slight incline it screamed it's bo**ocks off to 4000RPM until it finally changed gear.

What are your thoughts on autos?

[gac]

Old-fashioned autos with viscous liquid couplings are horrible to drive. My ex had an automatic 1.6 Scenic. With a combination of weedy petrol engine, big car, and auto box, I'm pretty sure I could put out more bhp by just looking at a dyno funny.

DSG autos on the other hand should feel pretty much just like driving a manual car, but with the gearchanges done for you. I've never driven one, but in theory they're much nicer to drive.

[IllusionEntity]

Old-fashioned autos with viscous liquid couplings are horrible to drive. My ex had an automatic 1.6 Scenic. With a combination of weedy petrol engine, big car, and auto box, I'm pretty sure I could put out more bhp by just looking at a dyno funny.

DSG autos on the other hand should feel pretty much just like driving a manual car, but with the gearchanges done for you. I've never driven one, but in theory they're much nicer to drive.

Funnily enough I was in a scenic! Sounds like they're going to die!

[P6bJOHN]

I had a 2008 1.4 16v Corsa 4 speed auto before my Roomster 1.2 105 DSG. The Corsa needed revving hard to make it go, would change down for hills on motorways and scream up them. It had no bottom end torque. The Roomster is more relaxing, faster, quieter and far more economical. The old School GM35 3 speed auto in my Rover is even more relaxing and can be in top at 20mph, but only averages 18mpg. The DSG is the best option, and it can be manually shifted if required.

[MudPuppy]

I've driven 2 autos. The first was a Nissan Navara. I actually found it quite worrying, especially when I was driving offroad and wanted to keep a slow pace going downhill and it kept changing up a gear, meaning I had to try and slow with the brakes, which got interesting on muddy ground. Why you would have an automatic 4x4 I will never know. On roads it always sounded like it was in the wrong gear and I'm sure I drove everywhere cringing.

The other was a 911 Carrera S (PDK). That made a lot more sense, plus as it's semi-automatic you can drive it manually if you want.

[Ootohere]

You would hardly ever want anything other than an Automatic for serous off roading.

some boxes certainly dont have a very low gear when the dont have a transfer box with low ratios.

You would obviously using the shifter to bring it manually to 2nd to lock it if required or available before dropping into anything seriously steep., probably not to first.

Maybe Overdrive button at Off And a manual down shift to 3rd then 2nd as required.

& an old Trials trick of a little application of the hand brake up a few clicks to slow down on the steepest decents.

As to the Road cars, lots of choices of good automatic and CVT boxes now.

Exercising the left foot by moving it up and down in a straight line is over rated IMO.

Might as well ride a push bike and exercise both.

george

Edited 28 July, 2012 by sk4gw

[Auric Goldfinger]

The DGS Box is a Dream to drive

[alkip]

With a knackered left leg I don't have a choice but, now on my 8th auto I like 'em, drive them properly and you've got a great combo. That said the Renault auto that I had was awful so I understand where you're coming from with that marque

[JimmyW]

My Pajero is an auto,it does feel a bit slushy,but after 2.5 years i've learnt to drive it properly,and after 80 km/h the torque converter locks up and its a direct drive then. I've only recently been looking into a switch to lock the torque converter on demand,so when pulling a trailer up a hill it doesn't make the revs go too high to stay in the torque band.

And offroad it is very good,lock it in 1st for going down hills,and it just sails down them. Only thing is with mud is the turbo comes onto boost a little strong and ends up spinning the wheels. And being an auto you don't know if the engine revs are going up because the engine is under load,or because the wheels are spinning

[gullyg]

Old-fashioned autos with viscous liquid couplings are horrible to drive. My ex had an automatic 1.6 Scenic. With a combination of weedy petrol engine, big car, and auto box, I'm pretty sure I could put out more bhp by just looking at a dyno funny.

DSG autos on the other hand should feel pretty much just like driving a manual car, but with the gearchanges done for you. I've never driven one, but in theory they're much nicer to drive.

I've never driven a DSG auto but I have driven a number of the "old style" vicous liquid boxes and they vary from excellent to awful.

My mother owned a Volvo 960 Auto which was a lovely car to drive but the box was a little dimwitted.

My Gran has had a long line of autoboxed cars (auto license due to ill health), her old Merc was lovely to drive but her Rover 45 and Astra (both 1.8s) were nasty.

I owned a Volvo 854 T5 Auto for about 3 years which has a great box coupled with a great engine - a real joy to drive, if not pay for it's thirst for fuel.

My experience of autos are if they are in a good quality car with plenty of power they are generally really nice, although not as good as a manual for spirited driving they are still good and are lovely in heavy traffic / long motorway drives. Just don't get one on a cheap car with small engines.

[Anzio]

Do Landrover do a Defender or County auto for serious off roading?

[gullyg]

Do Landrover do a Defender or County auto for serious off roading?

May be completely wrong but from memory the last auto Defender was the 50th anniversary edition with the V8 petrol.

[edit]

After a quick look on autotrader it would appear autos are available with the Diesel, but there's only about 5 on autotrader in the UK.

[Ootohere]

Now i own a Land Rover (auto Defender for towing) so i am not a Land Rover basher, but they are not the Ultimate

So Re

Land Rover Defenders.

No, Jaguar Land Rover (JRL TATA) do not do Automatic Defenders as Standard.

But THe Special Division build plenty for Customers for their needs.

Yes since 1948 we had Land Rovers, & BMW Land Rover, Ford Land Rover, and always Owners have been fitting Autoboxes theirshelf.

Now we Have These Euro 5 Engined 2.4 & now 2.2 TRansit engined things & people still fit Autoboxes as a Modification.

You will note how few Farmers drive these Real 4x4's now that rust as they leave the factory, let alone the Dealership.

Now farmers tow their trailers with Toyota's Nissans, Izuzus etc, Double Cabs and often with Autoboxes.

THey Keep going back and Buying something like the DEfender with Puma Engine and a year later they are back on the 'Jap Crap' because they need something they can trust.

(Look at Plouging Matches if you see vehicles on the road going to them & you will see the Tractors arrive on trailers often towed now by Kia or Hyundai AWD's)

Many Using a Land Rover Off Road will convert them with Gearboxes from the Likes of Ashcroft Transmissions.

http://www.ashcrofttransmissions.co.uk

You need to think of 'Off Road' & 'Serious Off Road'.

THat is not Really 'On Tar' On a 'Prepared Track' Crossing a Un-made Road.

(someplace where the lardy vehicles are usually going to be too heavy and struggle, since the LR is not really the 'Best 4x4 by Far')

You get the Odd Utilities 110 Land rover in the UK that ventures across a Field or School Play ground and gets stuck and towed out by the Unimog that its paired with, but that as much tyres as anything else.

As i said, For 'Serious off road' ie Winch Challange', 'Comp Safaris', CCV, Trials, Dakar, Desert Bashing Hawk Flying Shieks,

It will be an Autobox that is the Gearbox of Choice even if a Defender started out from the factory with a Manual fitted.

Driving around the world world on roads and tracks where a Peugout 504 or Toyota Hi-ace mini bus drives is not really off road, its on road.

THe Tahaliban would be no more if they were driving Land Rovers, but no they Drive Toyota Pickups with Part time AWD & Chinese & Japanese Motor Bikes.

UN , Toyotas, Not Many Land Rovers going 'Off Road' in the British Army.

george.

Edited 29 July, 2012 by sk4gw

[mannyo]

I have driven and owned both DSG and and conventional viscous based Autos. My current Audi A8 has the latter type of gearbox, and you need to know and adapt to how they behave as a conventional auto needs to be driven very differently to DSG and a manual.

If you have never driven an auto with a torque convertor before, and try then you'll find that it takes quiet sometime to learn how to get the best out of these boxes. They like lots of throttle, to make good progress and driving them gently can make even the most powerful car seem sluggish. However saying that, the further you press the pedal the longer the box will hold onto gears so you need to find the right balance for the conditions. You can drive a conventional auto up a steep hill without the engine screaming away quiet easily, simply ease of the throttle slightly and the car will change gear. Unlike a manual you will not lose momentum, and will continue at the same increasing pace.

I did 30K in my DSG superb, and switching to the Audi required an adaption to the driving technique despite both being Auto boxes.

Having sat on the M25 friday evening for miles in stop / start traffic whilst driving my dads manual Fabia, I sure missed the Audi and the next car I buy will be an Auto, despite the fuel economy penalty.

[ChrisRs]

We will never have a manual again..the DSG is fantastic

[KenONeill]

I've never driven a DSG, but IME VC slushboxes never change at the right revs; they're always either holding gears too long, not long enough, or hunting between 2 ratios.

Honda's CVT is nice though; it actually does what I tell it, sorting out either the lowest revs it can manage or holding peak torque until it has to increase revs to go faster.

[@Lee]

I once drove in a Corsa 1.something auto hire car. The thing should have come with a warning, something like 'ON NO ACCOUNT SHOULD YOU ATTEMPT TO OVERTAKE OR USE MOTORWAYS IN THIS VEHICLE'

[yetifabia]

To be honest, there's auto's and there's DSG. To lump them together is like bracketing a steam engine with a rocket. I drove manuals for 40 years because auto's were crap. Now I have 2 DSG's. Just try one - you will be converted.

[Titanium_Man]

I've driven a new merc c220, golf gd td and a Nissan GTR all with an auto box and I hated it...... although the GTR was bury the foot and point, which has its own perks I suppose!

I actually like to manually gear change, keeps me feeling in control ha!

[Latte]

I actually like to manually gear change, keeps me feeling in control ha!

Thats just one more advantage of a DSG, you can change manually if you wish.

[Titanium_Man]

Not really... Its the whole thing...

Clutch, pedal, revs etc etc I know I'm a little "different" with some things but hey!!

[Zlin]

I like automatic cars for driving in towns and cities. I haven't driven a DSG equipped car, the only automatics I've driven were an Allegro Van Den Plas, a 3 litre Volvo 760 estate and more recently a Smart for Two. The Allegro was already quite an old car when I was driving it and I felt that it held gears too long and the engined revved rather highly. The Volvo was also an older car when I drove it and to me it was the automotive equivalent of a hooligan on the open road, not so accomplished when cornering on winding country roads though. It always changed gear very smoothly and in start-stop or slow moving traffic it was very pleasant and a joy to drive. I wasn't so happy about the Smart car, I felt that it had a very choppy gear-change, perhaps the cars' short-wheelbase accentuated the lurch felt at every shift.

[rockhopper]

The first auto I drove was a DAF?Volvo 66. CVT transmission. I didn't like it.

My first auto was a Mondeo mk2 2.0 petrol. Awful.

Replaced it with a BMW 523i touring with the 5 speed tiptronic 'box. Brilliant. did 50,000 miles in it.

Replaced that with a 530d with the same 5 speed auto box. Brilliant (surprise surprise). I did another 50,000 miles in this one.

Was given a e60 535d msport with tiptronic 'box for a few weeks. Awesome diesel rocket.

The came the Octavia DSG. 2.0 L&K Estate 2006 model. I covered about 40,000 miles in it.

What a revelation. An economical automatic.

The DSG does require a different way of driving and takes quite a bit of getting used to, but it is worth it.

I then changed that for the Yeti. I have covered about 26,000 miles it it to date.

This has the later generation DSG software & possibly updated 'box, but basically it is the same as the Octavia.

But, it will change down whilst going down hill, if you touch the brakes - selects 3rd instead of 4th and uses engine braking to hold the speed steady.

Approach a roundabout at 70mph and come to a stand still and the gearbox will change down and rev up to about 3500rpm and 'engine brake' as well, unlike the Octavia box.

If anything, going uphill it will use too high a gear (but mine is remapped). It will use 5th along the flat or slight incline at 30mph.

The auto is great off road as well. Every single manual car that went on an off road trip with me stalled many times. No problem with the DSG.

The only time I have had a problem with the DSG was when I went through water that came over the bonnet and the car went into limp home mode. i.e. 1st gear only, no reverse. That was a bit worrying, but the RAC cleared the codes and it has been fine ever since. Serve me right for going through water about twice the depth the car is suitable for - user error -

Off road the Yeti performed as well as the Land Rovers - 90's, 110's and Discos, jeeps and Land cruisers, it just lacks ground clearance, so just have to be careful not to beech it.

I was told by my instructor, that the really serious off road guys all use automatics.

I used an automatic Disco recently and it was amazing what it could do, but we were holding it in low 2nd most of the time.

I use autos due to getting sciatica with manual cars, and I drive too much mainly around London and the auto makes light work of the job. Just wish it had stop start technology to aid fuel economy.

[Kiwibacon]

To be honest, there's auto's and there's DSG. To lump them together is like bracketing a steam engine with a rocket. I drove manuals for 40 years because auto's were crap. Now I have 2 DSG's. Just try one - you will be converted.

Yes, there is automatic and then there are automated manual boxes (DSG etc).

I haven't found a conventional auto I liked yet, but with 6 gears or more I have driven a few that I could live with if I had to. I've only driven one DSG car and I hated it. The pre-emptive shifting was confused about 3 times in my test-drive which resulted in about 2 seconds of delay while the computer tried to sort it out. The shift quality was also something I just didn't like.

A lot of trucks and buses run automated manual boxes, but they aren't a dual clutch type like DSG, rather it's computer control of conventional shifting.

Offroad I hate autos. They all run away downhill and many are so slushy that holding speed is almost impossible. Not to mention the amount of heat they create. First gear in a ZF HP22 auto (common retrofit to a defender) is about 2.5:1, add torque converter slippage into that and you can't crawl downhill without relying heavily on the brakes. My 4wd has a 1st gear of 5.8:1, over double the reduction of the ZF and zero TC slippage. I can crawl up and down without brakes, I can also idle places which auto's can't.

Yes there are situations offroad where a slushbox is just lovely (like changing up while getting a run-up to a hiill and chopping down under power when you need it). But overall offroad I'll still take a manual every time.

I owned a road car for about 5 years with an auto. I simply couldn't find a good manual version when I bought it. I loved everything else about the car but hated the gearbox. I wired in a torque converted lock-up switch and that helped a lot on hills, preventing torque converter slippage, greatly reducing heat generation and to help prevent kickdown. But it was still a major regret and I ended up selling the car.

Now I'm trying to buy a skoda with a manual and it's damn near impossible. I've just heard that they cannot source me a new superb with a manual box, only hope is to wait for the Octavia 3.

[Kiwibacon]

As i said, For 'Serious off road' ie Winch Challange', 'Comp Safaris', CCV, Trials, Dakar, Desert Bashing Hawk Flying Shieks,

It will be an Autobox that is the Gearbox of Choice even if a Defender started out from the factory with a Manual fitted.

george.

You've listed a lot of different offroad competitions there George. Of that lot I'm sure the desert bashing hawk flying sheiks would certainly be using a conventional auto.

The Comp Safari, CCV and trials are something I don't see much here so couldn't comment. But the winch challenge guys if they use an auto like to have them built up as a clutchless manual with a torque converter. Dakar type racing would be using sequential type boxes like the Quaiffe ones fitted to the Bowlers. Certainly the current Bowler EXR has the option of 6 speed manual or 6 speed sequential boxes. http://www.bowlermotorsport.com/range/exr/