1.8TSI and 2.0TSI engine failures

[Sarge]

Well done on getting loyalty discount.  I didn't even get that. I'd have bitten their hand off if they'd offered me a new engine for £3500.00!

[TheClient]

It sounds like the reduced cost offer was not taken up as the car was sold minus engine.

 

lifesaver112 - Now you've sold the car unrepaired I can't see you will have any further success with Skoda UK Goodwill of any amount. I am assuming Skoda UK offered goodwill, as you are saying you bought externally (non Skoda dealer).  They, Skoda UK,  won't pay anything on a notional loss.  If they offered a reduced repair, you could have tried to press them at the time, as it sounds like they empathised with your side of the story at the time.  That is more than a lot get, with a lot of requests falling completely on deaf ears.

 

Because you didn't buy from Skoda UK themselves you have no consumer rights against them. Your consumer rights would be against the selling dealer anyway. There are probably some avenues to try and bring an action against SKODA UK / VAG UK  but the case would be very costly and outcome far from clear and very very unlikely to be worth the risk.

[drg]

Hi Guys,

 

Yesterday went to leave work to go home in my 2010 2.0T Vrs (44,000 miles) and turned the ignition and nothing (silent Bang). Company mechanic had a quick look in the oil cap could not see any damage but you cant really see in. However we both agreed that the engine does not seem to have any engine compression. 

 

I suspect the dreaded tensioner fail......

 

Car is at my father in-laws garage being looked at tomorrow. Any ideas on part costs for a engine re-build on tsi engine?. 

 

Absolutely gutted!!!!

[TheClient]

At the upper limit of costs, Skoda dealers seem to quote in the region of £5.5k - 6k for new engine (fitted).

 

On page 55, there is a posting from a Continental European member for engine failure and they used a repair kit from Tornau Motoren, for euro 1150. Their engine is the 1.8, so the kit would need to be available for the 2.0tsi for it to be viable. Some parts like tensioners would be the same. I have no idea on quality vs genuine but it sounded interesting.  This engine was already using excessive oil so needed the piston and ring replacement to prevent recurrence.

 

Based on that, I expect all the genuine parts for a full rebuild, including pistons, rings, main bearings, chains, seals from a dealer would exceed that, maybe £1200 and up.  Valve parts on top.

 

If it is just the tensioner and main chain with no engine damage (probably unlikely given description) the genuine parts are circa £300-£350. Mild damage factor in some replacement valves and head removal as well.

 

A spectrum of prices really, you're lucky in one way I suppose, you have someone to help you out and maybe pay parts only!!

 

 

[drg]

Thanks For Reply

 

I agree I am Lucky in one way as i have the help to sort the engine.

 

Just A bit shocked as i was aware about the possible issue of the chain tensioner, but thought it only happens in a small percentage of cars never thought it could be mine...... But these things happen. 

[kton200281]

Sorry to hear this and hope you get this sorted. Did you have any warning signs at all first? Assume you haven't had a replacement tensioner fitted when you got the car? 

[Sarge]

Depending on clutch and DMF condition, may need to factor these in too if replacing engine, as much cheaper to do at this stage. I had mine done with new engine but garage had advised that clutch was well worn and DMF was known weak spot. 

[samnjarv]

Mine went bang 2 yrs ago at 41k on a 10 plate, came up with Fault code p0011 and p0016. Was took to skoda Sheffield and stripped to find tensioner fault and engine was replaced. Skoda said they would change the engine under good will and asked if I'd mind going halves to the labour cost which I urged for a bit but in the end think I gave them about £300 

[drg]

kton200281

 

I brought the car from westgate skoda with 19,000 miles on the clock. No warning signs. Car has been brilliant until this happened!

Just last month I had the dsg gearbox serviced (new filter and oil change). 

 

Such a shame! Work colleagues can't believe this happened with relatively low mileage on the clock. 

 

Part of me is wondering what to do once it is repaired! Will be worried every time I turn the key to start it! 

 

 

[Sarge]

That's my dilemma. My new engine is the latest version and has a two year warranty so am ok for now. The car is fantastic - all the options, great condition, not a single squeak/ rattle, is a joy to drive but there's this bit in the back of my mind constantly reminding me of the issues with these engines! 

[TheClient]

Yes, it is a bit unnerving.

 

The current K revision tensioner, like would be in your engine and what i had fitted on purchase was first qtr 2012 from memory. So they've been around for quite a while now. Some people have had them changed preventatively (like myself) and they would feature in replacement engines after around that date. I haven't yet read in these threads about a failure of version K of the tensioner (touches wood)............

 

I have no emperical proof but I suspect, and also hope the design is far better now. Certainly the ratchet mechanism is better.  However, equally I wouldn't assume a recurrence of the fault is totally impossible, question is what sort of mileage / duty cycle point is it likely to be a problem. VAG keep their mouths shut so don't help anyone running these cars / engines....  Perhaps a periodic tensioner and timing change is still the only way to be totally happy. Say 5 Years /   45k miles max. I'm just plucking numbers out of the sky, but you get the Idea. 

[Ian]

What would be interesting to know is how many people have done high mileages with these engines with no problems with the timing chain, and whether or not they were on variable/extended service.

Early cars with this engine now nearly 10 years old, so in normal use would be well past 100k miles by now. My 61 plate 1.8TSI Octavia on variable service has just reached 79k miles and i'm wondering whether it's worth dropping the £800 or thereabouts to get the chain, tensioner etc. changed anyway. There's no real sign of an imminent problem at the moment, with just a slight rattle on a cold start on a hot day, and the car has never used more than 1 litre of oil between services.

In another two years and 40k miles, the car will be next to worthless anyway so probably no point changing the chain if it makes it to 120k miles.  However if my luck changes, the chain could fail tomorrow morning and the car become effectively worthless now and £800 to to a preventive change now is a lot cheaper than a new car.

Has anyone managed over 150k miles in a 1.8 or 2.0 TSI yet, and does there seem to be a mileage that if the car gets past with no problems it's then most likely to be ok for the rest of a normal engine life?

[stylo]

16 minutes ago, Ian said:

What would be interesting to know is how many people have done high mileages with these engines with no problems with the timing chain, and whether or not they were on variable/extended service.

Early cars with this engine now nearly 10 years old, so in normal use would be well past 100k miles by now. My 61 plate 1.8TSI Octavia on variable service has just reached 79k miles and i'm wondering whether it's worth dropping the £800 or thereabouts to get the chain, tensioner etc. changed anyway. There's no real sign of an imminent problem at the moment, with just a slight rattle on a cold start on a hot day, and the car has never used more than 1 litre of oil between services.

In another two years and 40k miles, the car will be next to worthless anyway so probably no point changing the chain if it makes it to 120k miles.  However if my luck changes, the chain could fail tomorrow morning and the car become effectively worthless now and £800 to to a preventive change now is a lot cheaper than a new car.

Has anyone managed over 150k miles in a 1.8 or 2.0 TSI yet, and does there seem to be a mileage that if the car gets past with no problems it's then most likely to be ok for the rest of a normal engine life?

 

What you should consider is the replacement cost of your car. It may be worth next to nothing to sell, but it is still worth something to you ie if you had to replace it.

 

If i had an older model, I would not hesitate in dropping the $ to upgrade the tensioner and chain.

 

Then again you may be lucky and the tensioner may never fail on you and you've saved $800!

[csjas1]

On ‎07‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 12:00, TheClient said:

At the upper limit of costs, Skoda dealers seem to quote in the region of £5.5k - 6k for new engine (fitted).

 

On page 55, there is a posting from a Continental European member for engine failure and they used a repair kit from Tornau Motoren, for euro 1150. Their engine is the 1.8, so the kit would need to be available for the 2.0tsi for it to be viable. Some parts like tensioners would be the same. I have no idea on quality vs genuine but it sounded interesting.  This engine was already using excessive oil so needed the piston and ring replacement to prevent recurrence.

 

Based on that, I expect all the genuine parts for a full rebuild, including pistons, rings, main bearings, chains, seals from a dealer would exceed that, maybe £1200 and up.  Valve parts on top.

 

If it is just the tensioner and main chain with no engine damage (probably unlikely given description) the genuine parts are circa £300-£350. Mild damage factor in some replacement valves and head removal as well.

 

A spectrum of prices really, you're lucky in one way I suppose, you have someone to help you out and maybe pay parts only!!

 

 

I have just recently also experienced a slipped timing chain on my 2011 VRS @70,000 miles, FSH with dealership, the car was with the dealer for about 4 weeks while repairs were completed. To be fair to the dealership they have been ok other than the time it took. They have charged £970 as it would appear I was lucky with no other damage. Is this reasonable? they say they have added a element of good will in to the invoice for labour, parts etc.  I have been in touch with Skoda UK and they have a case but they keep stating any good will is for the dealership to honor.

[TheClient]

18 hours ago, csjas1 said:

I have just recently also experienced a slipped timing chain on my 2011 VRS @70,000 miles, FSH with dealership, the car was with the dealer for about 4 weeks while repairs were completed. To be fair to the dealership they have been ok other than the time it took. They have charged £970 as it would appear I was lucky with no other damage. Is this reasonable? they say they have added a element of good will in to the invoice for labour, parts etc.  I have been in touch with Skoda UK and they have a case but they keep stating any good will is for the dealership to honor.

Well that is a little curious. I would say £970 is about normal Skoda prices for a Tensioner and Timing Chain replacement with rails, guides, seals and a new lower cover. The parts are a little over £300 inc vat. And labour time about 5 - 5.5 hours. so for skoda dealer probably £700, total £1000.

 

Not sure what goodwill they (the dealer) have included. Maybe ask them for a bit more detail on what extra work they did. Did they do more than what I've mentioned?

 

4 weeks seems a very very long amount of time for a job that can be done in a day, or 2/3 days at the outside if awaiting parts.  Did they have a problem with parts not being available or did they have a lot of trouble diagnosing the problem and that is why they took so long and also why the charge would of been higher?  That would not be a very good explanation of a higher charge or to apply the goodwill against IMO.   If you don't know, probably questions to put to them in a nice way of course.

 

As for Skoda goodwill, that is a slightly unusual response. Not the usual no.  They seem to not be willing to indicate whether they have provided goodwill support on the repair or not, and have basically said, if they had the dealer has to present it to you.  Lots of smoke and mirrors there. You need some answers from the dealer then.   It has been mentioned before that on here in some circumstances where Skoda meet goodwill they cover parts and the dealer covers labour but I am not sure if that is always or even often the case how Skoda UK manage it. Sometimes Skoda UK seem to take control of the entire repair and goodwill themselves with the dealer just carrying out the work and re-charging.

 

Worth a  few more questions with your repairing dealer I think to explain exactly what goodwill support you've been given here and what extra work was carried on. Presumably they've already explained to you the 4 weeks?  Is there an invoice with breakdown and goodwill deduction?

 

 

 

 

[csjas1]

Hi, Thanks for the information.

I have checked the invoice and it breaks down to £280 for labour, £490 for parts for the fixed + sundries £37.00 all less VAT. Certainly there has been no discount on the oil, filter and sump plug as the individual items are more than i was charged for my service in Sept 2016.

I was probably a little unfavourable to say 4 weeks! i was without the car for this time but the dealer did have the car for at least 3, a bit slow in the diagnostic and deciding what to do,  waiting for equipment, parts etc . I would rather they took the time but i wasn't confident initially they knew what was best course of action. 

Skoda UK have been very guarded and measured in the discussions we have had so i don't think they have as yet agreed anything with the dealer. 

I am due a call from the dealer / Skoda tomorrow.

I certainly feel something is not quite right with what has been invoiced and i feel more confident to continue to challenge the cost with the information you have provided. I also think there is still more issues with this type of engine in general which Skoda have not admitted to me yet. 

Lets see where tomorrows conversation(s) lead. 

[TheClient]

Yes, a little guarded for sure and slightly unusual this. Certainly that is cheap labour charge for a dealer. But the parts are more than a genuine cam chain, cam chain tensioner, seals, guides, rails and lower cover, so they must have replaced some extra parts (the £300-£330 I suggested include a new oil filter and 4.7 Litres of Oil), you should be able to see on the invoice what they have replaced. Did they do the oil pump chain and tensioner or balance shafts or something else as well?

 

Normally, if applying goodwill it would be reasonable to expect a total invoice with a goodwill credit visible or at least an explanation of what they have deducted from it on the phone before pick up and payment.

 

It sounds like they faffed around with the diagnosis a bit which ought not to be your problem or IMO consume any of your goodwill credit. See how you go. Be nice it costs nothing, usually works better.

 

Edited 13 July, 2017 by TheClient

[csjas1]

I have managed to copy invoice 

[Sarge]

Goodwill is perhaps a reduced labour rate. That's what my dealer did for me when replacing my engine. 

[TheClient]

Yep, well that breakdown is clear. They have given you 50% or more goodwill on labour, probably amounting to ~£400.

 

The job is a bit more expensive than the indication I gave because they have done one balance shaft chain and tensioner and camshaft control valve. They don't normally need doing. There are two balance shafts. They must have seen a problem.

 

In you discussion, your focus should be on the parts cost as there is no goodwill in there and it is now the majority of the invoice.

 

If nothing is forthcoming I'd move on, you've come out of the situation with mild bruising when others have been admitted with trauma.  In full engine failures from the same fault many have got not a penny. You are actually lucky, even though you may not feel like it.

[anotherdownunder]

On 2/18/2013 at 22:46, MrMatt said:

The dealer has informed my Skoda will not help regarding the cost, repair etc..

My local Skoda service centre said it is easy to check the earlier tensioner to see if impending problems or the latest. He also said the 7-speed DSG in my 2011 Octi needed no oil change.

[Ootohere]

^^^ Did he mention the World Wide Recall on the 7 Speed DSG / DQ200 which included Australia and might include yours as it is from 2009-2012

Synthetic Oil Changed to Mineral & a Software update?  

Was yours done or needing done.

This was Skoda New Zealand's 'Service Campaign / Recall Action'.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign 

 

[flinflon]

I see that checking timing chain length is for  Octavia 3, 1.8/2.0 tsi engines  for years 2013 and 2014. I presume this method does not apply to Octavia2 1.8/2.0 tsi FLs.

[TheClient]

Yes, the images a few posts ago refer to the Mk3 TSI.  Not sure why they were specifically linked. The mk2 EA888 is similar though.  There is still has an inspection plug on the lower cover and you can count the teeth extended on the tensioner probably with an enlarged inspection mirror.. I can't remember off hand the number of teeth acceptable, I'm guessing 4 or 5.... There are some posts linking to the TPI's in this very thread, it's a very long thread to wade through though. Set aside 5 mins or so - maybe more!

[csjas1]

On 7/14/2017 at 08:25, TheClient said:

Yep, well that breakdown is clear. They have given you 50% or more goodwill on labour, probably amounting to ~£400.

 

The job is a bit more expensive than the indication I gave because they have done one balance shaft chain and tensioner and camshaft control valve. They don't normally need doing. There are two balance shafts. They must have seen a problem.

 

In you discussion, your focus should be on the parts cost as there is no goodwill in there and it is now the majority of the invoice.

 

If nothing is forthcoming I'd move on, you've come out of the situation with mild bruising when others have been admitted with trauma.  In full engine failures from the same fault many have got not a penny. You are actually lucky, even though you may not feel like it.

Just an update to my original post from July, I have now agreed to a refund of £400.00 to be made by the dealer from my posted invoice. This money has been provided by Skoda UK and dealt with as a warranty claim payment. It has been a long draw out affair mainly with problems of communication between Skoda UK and the dealership. No real explanation or than as above although Skoda UK said that the dealership should have liased with them more before the repair was costed, done  and invoiced.  The car is running fine but i feel i have come to the end with this vehicle so intend to sell. 

So if anyone interested in 2011 VRS estate in black magic 71,000 FSH please let me know. Engine probably good for the next 70,000 miles  

Edited 20 August, 2017 by csjas1