184PS TDI Vs 150PS TDI - Physical/Mechanical differences?

[Jono]

Does anyone know what the physical differences between these two engines are?

 

In addition to different mapping.

 

Injectors?

 

Turbo?

 

Charge cooler?

 

Gearing? (sounds odd but I thought I read it somewhere - although of course this wont affect power output)

 

I'm assuming there must be some, as the remapped end-result differs so much.

 

 

 

[Shermo]

Physically I believe it's just the injectors and the ECU (which contains the map), I remember someone did some digging about a year ago although that was on an Audi forum for the A3, but same engines.

[steveo82]

It will just be the 170CR lump which is still the physical make up of the engine as they obviously only got another 14BHP from it to create the 184.

 

 Anyhow as above really, shouldn't be too much physically different as most tuners could get another 34BHP from a map alone quite easily.

[Jono]

It will just be the 170CR lump which is still the physical make up of the engine as they obviously only got another 14BHP from it to create the 184.

 

 Anyhow as above really, shouldn't be too much physically different as most tuners could get another 34BHP from a map alone quite easily.

 

Sounds plausible, but do you know that to be true? or just assuming, because it's perfectly plausible?

[Exeterj]

Interestingly the service manual for MY13/14 cars (CKFC 150ps and CUPA 185ps) shows them having the same compression ratio of 16.2:1 but in the brochure dated March 2015 the compression ratio of the 184PS is 15.8:1 whereas the 150PS is still 16.2:1 - not sure which is correct or if it has been changed for MY15 onwards.

 

Other thing i noted is both Scout engines (we've just acquired the 150ps one) is supposedly EU6 by the brochure - not sure if this means we'll have to adblue.

[steveo82]

Sounds plausible, but do you know that to be true? or just assuming, because it's perfectly plausible?

The slight drop in compression ratio may be due to slight increase in boost, but as above I'm applying assumption, reasoned assumption mind you

[cortina63]

The piston stroke may differ to achieve different comp ratio,shorter conrod or a taller piston

[pipsyp]

It will just be the 170CR lump which is still the physical make up of the engine as they obviously only got another 14BHP from it to create the 184.

Anyhow as above really, shouldn't be too much physically different as most tuners could get another 34BHP from a map alone quite easily.

This is not true....its a new gen of CR unit....completely new DPF implementation, cooling system (including a water cooled turbo). It probably shares the same swept capacity and basic mechanical componentry but the design is all new.

V good they are too.....I can confirm that a regular 150 TDi model would give a Mk2 170 CR a real run for its money for outright performance.....much better power delivery and 100 or so less Kgs of weight the reason.

[kallekilponen]

Since the 150 unit is EU5 and 184 EU6 (on MY15 at least) there's some difference in the DPF as well. My understanding is that it's closer to the engine in the more powerful variant.

[nickcoll]

The 150PS and 184PS are the EA288 family engines which came in with the MQB platform introduced with the Octavia III. The 170PS is the older generation CR engine from the Octavia II and is a much less impressive beast. The new engines are stunning, and the 150 feels like a far more powerful engine than its rated output. Coupled with the lower weight than the Octavia II, an Octavia III with the 150PS engine is a very decently fast car which can still manage excellent fuel economy.

 

According to the VW guide to the EA288 family:

 

The design of this new generation of diesel engines was based on the existing EA189 engine family. Displacement, cylinder spacing, stroke and bore ratio are shared between the EA189 and the new EA288 gasoline engines. The new EA288 engine design forms the basis for all future inline diesel engines at Volkswagen. Several sub-assemblies were redesigned in the EA 288 family of 4-cylinder diesel engines to satisfy future emission standards.

[pipsyp]

Since the 150 unit is EU5 and 184 EU6 (on MY15 at least) there's some difference in the DPF as well. My understanding is that it's closer to the engine in the more powerful variant.

I suspect the 184 has better, more accurate/efficient injectors than the 150....this probably goes some way to bringing the 184 motor to EU6 compliance.

[andyvee]

Not one mention of camshafts so far .........

 

...... or cylinder heads

[Jono]

Not one mention of camshafts so far .........

 

...... or cylinder heads

Are they different?

[andyvee]

Don't know, but they have been on previous generations

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[Micky 32]

An old thread but might be worth updating. The 184 and 150 engine are basically the same unit, same bottom end,  pistons and conrods, compression is also the same. The cylinder heads are the same as are the camshafts and both the 150 and 184 have VVT. I'm not 100% sure about the injectors but possibly different. Turbo on the 184 is different, different part number so obviously larger.

 

The 150 engine on the Superb/Passat is also the same as the 184 engine however the 190 has different pistons(  maybe different compression but piston rings are the same). For some reason the pistons have a different part number but conrods etc are the same. Now whether DPF's, intercoolers, exhausts are different who knows but the basic lump is the same...

 

The 240 ps biturbo engine that's on the Passat is a different story altogether, all part numbers different lol. ;-)

Edited 18 July, 2016 by Micky 32

[Petunet]

Injectors on the 150hp version are 04L130277AC and on the 184hp 04L130277AE.

They look almost identical and should be interchangeable.

On the 240hp engine almost  everything is different as Micky 32 said.

Edited 18 July, 2016 by Petunet

[bertJ]

Since the 150 unit is EU5 and 184 EU6 (on MY15 at least) there's some difference in the DPF as well. My understanding is that it's closer to the engine in the more powerful variant.

The 150 unit is EU6 in the UK and doesn't use AdBlue

[Micky 32]

Interesting PDF on the biTurbo 240hp engine, describing the added differences over the mono turbo engines including compression ratio specs etc.

 

http://users.telenet.be/veerle_haai/08_A2.2_Eichler_VW_bitdi_2.0.pdf

[davitc]

Surely there are Gearbox differences or is it jus the Auto box which is different to the 150.

 

I'd thought the vRS manual would have closer gearing. 

 

I remember a few years back I had the MK3 XR3i 105bhp which I think had the Escort Van final drive. Top speed was't as good as the latter 130bhp versions but it got to 60MPH in the same time.

[MrAdamwood]

The 150 unit is EU6 in the UK and doesn't use AdBlue

The EU6 engines use high and low pressure egr whereas the EU5 only has low pressure egr.

[Sec8200]

Beside the suspension advantage, higher maximum speed, how does the vRS compares to the 150hp unit. I saw vRS is heavier and not much faster 8.4 vs 8.1 0-100km/h. I guess its set for more torque on higher revs.

[GoneToBeemer]

Beside the suspension advantage, higher maximum speed, how does the vRS compares to the 150hp unit. I saw vRS is heavier and not much faster 8.4 vs 8.1 0-100km/h. I guess its set for more torque on higher revs.

 

As previously stated, the 150 engine is really flexible and pulls well. It would generally be all your would need in a car, and also I believe the vRS Diesel has a weight disadvantage to the other models.

 

I have a tuning box on my 150 DSG and it's bloody great!

[gullyg]

Car wise the vrs gets variable steering rack and better brakes.

I've had the 150 as a courtesy car and it feels every bit as fast acceleration wise as my vrs but the steering and brakes just aren't as good.

Suspension is a bit of a mixed bag. The 150 was more comfortable over potholes etc with less noise but on the other hand rolled more round the corners.

As the 150 isn't hauling about all the extra weight I'd suspect it'll get better fuel economy as well. Plus no fake exhausts.

[Sec8200]

As previously stated, the 150 engine is really flexible and pulls well. It would generally be all your would need in a car, and also I believe the vRS Diesel has a weight disadvantage to the other models.

 

I have a tuning box on my 150 DSG and it's bloody great!

 

what is the result of it? interested

[Bingicus_McMaximus]

Reviving a dead thread here but here goes

 

Hi there I’ve got the 2014 2.0 non vrs 150bhp. So turbo and injectors are different between 150 and 184  ? So if I change to the 184 turbo and injectors and map it I should achieve the same results as a mapped vrs ? I’m already mapped and at 199bhp cars bog standard bar 19s and coilovers. Just I understand it the vrs 184 maps to 225 ? Am I wrong here ? If not it doesn’t seem worth it changing two expensive things for a gain of 26bhp so please correct me if I’m wrong. Am I right in saying the injectors for a bi turbo should fit my 150 ? If so I just need to find a bigger turbo then the 184s 😂. Before anyone says it I don’t like owning vrs I prefer to take a plain Jane and make it my own so everything vrs would pretty much get ripped out ie interior parts suspension wheels obvs not the diff and the steering 😂😂but I quite like my steering in the 150bhp if I’m honest