& the AA.

http://theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/snow-chains-winter-tyres.html

You are making an assumption based on your own experiences of the climate / weather applying to Norway. I last went there in late May & early June 2014 at which time there was still standing snow on the high ground.

I say again - our climate is completely different.

We have relatively little snow, in comparison, even on the high ground to the north of England and in Scotland, and that which falls rarely lays for any length of time. For the majority of the U.K. The number of days of snow cover annually is in single figures, and in many years there is no laying snow across much of the country.

You may notice that the winter tyre brigade accede to this, but then change the thrust of their argument to the "below 7C"

 

 

there is still standing snow from last winter on the high ground in this country. There was an item on the news last week about a mini avalanche that had brought down the biggest amount of snow seen in the summer months in years.

Thanks for the endorsement on my life as I drive on summers all round the year. Maybe my living for over 20yrs in the dales assisted my driving skills, maybe my Police cars being fitted with summers concentrated the mind, or maybe it's because I was taught to drive to suit the conditions assisted my survival. I'm pleased to be informed that all the maybes are not relevent, it's because I'm a kn*b, Doh! I should have guessed.

 

As part of a Department of Transport accident investigation team, which included deaths and serious accidents involving police pursuits and responses, we would look at all factors but particularly the state of the vehicle right down to the brakes and tyres which formed part of our report.  Several of the emergency services do use All Season tyres all year round and I think that is the right choice.

 

The Police Federation needs to get it act together for its members and public safety to ensure it also is best set up for winter driving.  I also did Police driver training when I went from Transport to Customs, tended to work with Special Branch (as well as SBS and other government branches) rather than regular plod and they and we would often use Range Rovers and other 4x4s which would be set up with All Weather conditions tyres.       

 

You can drive to the conditions all you want but a car fitted with appropriate tyres will do things even Stig Blomqvist cannot do, laws of physics.  Perhaps we could reduce the statistics of road deaths if we do adopt a more enlightened approach to All Season/Winter tyres.    Customs included in stats as we count as police under PCEA 84.

 

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

Here's one we come across a few winters ago when I was up my dads for christmas. Funnily enough we managed to get around safely in a fwd car with no winters lol.

 

The second pic is my car5 of choice for winter traveling............ I wish.

Seriously though, I was helped advance my driving after passing my test by a mate who was a test & rally driver for Peugeot, Mitsubishi & later Ford. I also like to advance my skills & have the Police advanced driver handbook. I recently helped my mate pass his advanced high speed driving Police course. Currently I have been driving for 21yrs up here in Scotland's winter & have never had any points on my license........

 

SO I am pretty "awesome"..............however I still managed to write my car off when I was driving to suit conditions at 30mhp in a 60mph zone in winter on summer tyres.............

 

**** happens,................well nature happens more like, & being a winter mountaineer, ski mountaineer, ice climber I know that nature takes control.......NO matter how "awesome, invincible" etc you think you are......

 

Just because it hasn't happened to you yet does not mean it can't happen in the future..........

This sort of thing happens every single day with or without freak acts of nature. For example on my drive to work this morning I will again pass a car who's driver thought that a ditch is just a parking spot disguised. Seriously it's harder to get the car into the ditch than it would've been to stay on the road. We see this sort of thing everyday.

As part of a Department of Transport accident investigation team, 

 

I'm remarkably pleased for you, that still does not qualify you to insult people, the above statement could mean you just typed up the minutes, or are actually an accident investigator. Please climb down off from your ivory tower and look at the tongue in cheek title of this thread. Whilst down here amongst us mere mortals look around and see you don't know enough about us to pass judgement. (unless you are also a member of the judiciary). Happy Days!

I'm remarkably pleased for you, that still does not qualify you to insult people, the above statement could mean you just typed up the minutes, or are actually an accident investigator. Please climb down off from your ivory tower and look at the tongue in cheek title of this thread. Whilst down here amongst us mere mortals look around and see you don't know enough about us to pass judgement. (unless you are also a member of the judiciary). Happy Days!

Please don't quote his posts. The people who have him on their ignore list won't appreciate it. :p

Anybody who does not use All Season or Winters in sub 7C ambient conditions is a kn*b IMHO

So obviously not a very humble opinion more of a statement about who you are really.  If you cannot be bothered to partake in a discussion without resorting to insults perhaps your opinion will mean less to those of us reading it.

 

As part of a Department of Transport accident investigation team, which included deaths and serious accidents involving police pursuits and responses, we would look at all factors but particularly the state of the vehicle right down to the brakes and tyres which formed part of our report.  Several of the emergency services do use All Season tyres all year round and I think that is the right choice.

 

The Police Federation needs to get it act together for its members and public safety to ensure it also is best set up for winter driving.  I also did Police driver training when I went from Transport to Customs, tended to work with Special Branch (as well as SBS and other government branches) rather than regular plod and they and we would often use Range Rovers and other 4x4s which would be set up with All Weather conditions tyres.       

 

You can drive to the conditions all you want but a car fitted with appropriate tyres will do things even Stig Blomqvist cannot do, laws of physics.  Perhaps we could reduce the statistics of road deaths if we do adopt a more enlightened approach to All Season/Winter tyres.    Customs included in stats as we count as police under PCEA 84.

 

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

You are trying to show us that you are highly qualified and highly experienced in all these matters yet you despite being highly intelligent you still cannot refrain from a blanket criticism of all who choose to take a different path to you.  It is a fact that many people choose for their own reasons not to change tyres in the winter but as far as your concerned they all come under one heading.  Brilliant!

 

So apologies to Rusty for adding this quote again but I think I will join you and this person will be the first I have ever ignored on this or any forum.

This shows a reduction in Police vehicle fatalities and has no mention of tyres, so what was the point of it being included in this thread?  

http4.pdfs://www.ipcc.gov...Report_131

Maybe to suggest that if a person is to be pursued by the Police, they should choose a car to steal shod with a performance tyre to suit the conditions? 

What has FUBAR done?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Edited 7 October, 201510 yr by MattHunt

I'm remarkably pleased for you, that still does not qualify you to insult people, the above statement could mean you just typed up the minutes, or are actually an accident investigator. Please climb down off from your ivory tower and look at the tongue in cheek title of this thread. Whilst down here amongst us mere mortals look around and see you don't know enough about us to pass judgement. (unless you are also a member of the judiciary). Happy Days!

 

I am sorry if some police vehicles are not fitted with All Season/Winter tyres like other emergency services during the winter season, after being a Union safety Rep with NUCPS, now called just PCS, certainly something worth fighting for.  As to private vehicles it is a small cost for much better performance as Dept of Transport info shows.  Why would you not do it for the sake of a few hundred quid and keep your summer tyres for summer.  Having partly grown up in Canada probably influence my thinking.  It could be an El Nino year so best be prepared unless like walking or public transport. 

I think there are three issues here, 

1, The percieved need for winter tyres, I'm not disputing some people/regions might need them, not all.

2, The economics, not everyone is in a financial position to have a set of seldom needed tyres stacked in a corner.

3, Your self recognised infallibility

 

None are a reason to call the people without winter tyres a kn*b, no matter how highly paid, trained, or esteemed you consider yourself above others. I'm out.

Edited 7 October, 201510 yr by P6bJOHN

As part of a Department of Transport accident investigation team, which included deaths and serious accidents involving police pursuits and responses, we would look at all factors but particularly the state of the vehicle right down to the brakes and tyres which formed part of our report.  Several of the emergency services do use All Season tyres all year round and I think that is the right choice.

 

The Police Federation needs to get it act together for its members and public safety to ensure it also is best set up for winter driving.  I also did Police driver training when I went from Transport to Customs, tended to work with Special Branch (as well as SBS and other government branches) rather than regular plod and they and we would often use Range Rovers and other 4x4s which would be set up with All Weather conditions tyres.       

 

You can drive to the conditions all you want but a car fitted with appropriate tyres will do things even Stig Blomqvist cannot do, laws of physics.  Perhaps we could reduce the statistics of road deaths if we do adopt a more enlightened approach to All Season/Winter tyres.    Customs included in stats as we count as police under PCEA 84.

 

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

Nope, don't believe it.

Having sat in a rally car with John Haugland I am quite willing to believe that Stig could easily defeat the laws of physics.

Yeah but what tyres did he have on Graham????

Not Dunlop Sport Maxx's!! LOL

Having partly grown up in Canada probably . 

 

That explains quite a few things.

Just got two new tyres, Summer tread!

 

FK you winter!

 

I'll get through the snow through the power of road rage. Or stay in me bed and not bother.

Bookmarked.

Expecting updates as and when.

I'm remarkably pleased for you, that still does not qualify you to insult people, the above statement could mean you just typed up the minutes, or are actually an accident investigator. Please climb down off from your ivory tower and look at the tongue in cheek title of this thread. Whilst down here amongst us mere mortals look around and see you don't know enough about us to pass judgement. (unless you are also a member of the judiciary). Happy Days!

 

You are right in that I was just an Assistant Admin Officer for Department of Transport, going out with Reporting Officer (in some cases going out with him in his Skoda Rapid (84-90 version) holding the measuring tape etc but did read the reports and not type them, do not type very well. Never been a member of the Judiciary but when I did my first caution as Customs Officer for smuggling the response for the smuggler was yes I understand the caution as I am a Police Officer, I nearly fell backwards.  He pleaded to just do him and not his travelling partner which I did, I do have a heart!  

 

I do apologies if my passion about road safety overspills.  If you attend RTAs and see a poorly maintained car which has resulted in casualties I would hope it you are angered too.  Police vehicles use to do some good things like change tyres as they hit 3mm tread depth and I hope that is still the case as, again with the usage of All Season/Winter tyres, the data shows very pronounced results....  

stopping distance-tyre depth.bmp

I think there are three issues here, 

1, The percieved need for winter tyres, I'm not disputing some people/regions might need them, not all.

2, The economics, not everyone is in a financial position to have a set of seldom needed tyres stacked in a corner.

3, Your self recognised infallibility

 

None are a reason to call the people without winter tyres a kn*b, no matter how highly paid, trained, or esteemed you consider yourself above others. I'm out.

Just a few thoughts to your 3 points.

1. The need is not perceived in that technical data shows winter tyres stop metres shorter that Summers in cold conditions, could be width of a Zebra crossing with obvious consequences.
2. Cost is quite small compared to running a car ie probably circa £200, my All Season are less than £40 each, rims similar price.  https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/
3. Quite the reverse I am happy to get all the help I can.  Still learning after more than a million driven miles over my 3 decades on four wheels and two.  Particularly on motorbikes had several painful and scary incidents due to lack of tyre grip hence my passion for road safety as well work experience.  

Just another road user who promotes use of non-summer when it is not summer, passion sometimes reigns when other stats like twice as many people were killed during the years of the Troubles in RTAs than the Troubles themselves.  Other key report/stats about rising RTAs..

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/438040/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-main-results-2014-release.pdf 

 

There were 1,775 reported road deaths in 2014, an increase of 4% compared with 2013.

 

Pedestrians accounted for three quarters of the increase in fatalities between 2013 and 2014.

Pedestrian fatalities increased by 12 per cent from 398 in 2013 to 446 in 2014. 

► The number of people seriously injured in reported road traffic accidents increased by 5 per cent to 22,807 in 2014, compared with 2013.

► There was a total of 194,477 casualties of all severities in reported road traffic accidents during 2014, the first increase in overall casualties since 1997.

► A total of 146,322 personal-injury road traffic accidents were reported to the police in 2014. Of these accidents, 1,658 resulted in at least one fatality 

 

What is the rise in pedestrian injuries attributed to? Summer tyres or people driving around in SUVs (or wannabes), thinking that they are invincible and having more accidents as a result?

There was a well documented report of increased numbers of Americans dying in accidents due to a perceived higher level of safety afforded by SUVs and similar and Britain is generally ten to twenty years behind the US...

Sent from my XT1039

What is the rise in pedestrian injuries attributed to? Summer tyres or people driving around in SUVs (or wannabes), thinking that they are invincible and having more accidents as a result?

There was a well documented report of increased numbers of Americans dying in accidents due to a perceived higher level of safety afforded by SUVs and similar and Britain is generally ten to twenty years behind the US...

Sent from my XT1039

 

I don't know but it would be interesting to find out.  Probably several factors.  Anecdotally it seems to me that road spend is one factor.  Road condition and marking seem to be much worse.

Some US studies on RTAs are very interesting. One of the most interesting one was the mandatory "motorcycle headlights on" law.  Statistics for bike accidents took quite a dip but they rose back to an intermediate level.  Conclusion was that initially less cars etc pulled out on bike as they noticed them but then after a few months of getting use to motorcycles with headlights on some car drivers pulled out anyways.  It was thought that the driver subconsciously saw the bikes but that did not alert their conscious as a danger to them so they pulled out, scary.

 

There is lots of evidence that seat belts, ABS, ESP and probably better tyres in some cases, have led us to drive more aggressively which is human nature.  As more cars get anti-collision system it will be interesting what effect that has on our driving and then, probably only a decade away, common driverless system.  Worth watch I, Robot (sponsored by VAG) if not already seen.            

Increase in pedestrian deaths would be people staring into their phones, oblivious. Nothing to do with cars/drivers/tyres.

Personally I don't care if others don't use winter tyres. 

 

For the love of god though, if you do get stuck move over to the side so those with 4wd/winters/both can get past you. Ill give you a wave - in fact, may even give you a tow. ;-)

 

I've had winters on my previous van and found them really useful - I was driving lots of miles and felt they did offer more sure-footedness over experiences I had from summer tyres in previous years. The miles I did justified the additional expense. I can understand for some that they cant warrant buying them.

 

This year, as I now have a Yeti with AWD ive changed to the Michelin Cross Climate and will use them all year. I wonder if more people will go this route once there are real world reviews and experiences of this tyre.