Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Breezy_Pete]

The more realistic testing regime I understands commences January 2016.

It won't have the criticised 'creeping' acceleration, it'll be more realistic and I'd expect heavier constant load running.

But the agencies involved aren't going to expect those levels to be maintained at all times on the road, just not multiple times more.

That can't be relevant to cars that were designed for, and tested to, earlier regimes though, can it?

[Scribbler]

I realise everyone feels hurt and a bit let down by this issue I do myself but the point Graham is making is that there is no point in over reacting. In the real world the VAG cars are producing lower harmful emissions than other manufactures with or without the defeat devices.. :sun:

 

SPECULATION

[Ryeman]

I realise everyone feels hurt and a bit let down by this issue I do myself but the point Graham is making is that there is no point in over reacting. In the real world the VAG cars are producing lower harmful emissions than other manufactures with or without the defeat devices.. :sun:

With the possible exception of Volvo for one

[Llanigraham]

If it was known then there would be no point in speculating, you seam to misunderstand the point of a Discussion forum and want a gestapo run system instead. Where everyone has to agree with the defacto opinion namely yours and if not you get your red marker pen out.

 

Well done, the second invoking of Godwin's Law in this discussion.

[Ryeman]

That can't be relevant to cars that were designed for, and tested to, earlier regimes though, can it?

That would be retrospective and I doubt that would occur.

But from what I've read 2016 models will face the 'realistic' testing regime.......emissions engineers with other companies won't be sending Xmas card to VW that's for sure.

[looby]

SPECULATION

 

Sorry didn't quite get that... :sun:

[Scribbler]

Well done, the second evoking of Godwin's Law in this discussion.

 

If you could tolerate other peoples opinions then there would be no need for the comparison.

[05surveyor]

Too many supposed "experts" contributing.

 

In the course of my work I have come across two definitions of an "expert"

 

1. An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less, and ends up knowing absolutely everything about f*** all.
    
2. An "ex" is a has-been, and a "spert" is a drip under pressure.

Take your choice from the above, and remember that in the courts only an "expert" can give opinion evidence, everyone else is restricted to factual evidence.

Edited 15 October, 2015 by 05surveyor

[gadgetman]

There is a PROPOSAL for a new test, but that will only affect new vehicles registered after the date of the Legislation, and is not retrospective.

The proposal is that all cars will have to meet their published NOX figures within a margin (assume something like 10%) and would cover all cars where the manufacturer has provided official NOX figures (so essentially Euro 5 or newer)

So older Euro 1-4 will either get a pass or have a default limit to hit as it wasn't mandatory to issue NOX figures then.

As posted earlier the NOX test during an MOT will bring our MOT in line with the majority of Europe and is primarily in response to DPF removals and the government's legal requirements to hit emissions limits or face hefty fines.

Yes it's still in proposal/consultation stage but last I saw was it'll be here within 18 months - and that was in an article early summer this year. Recent articles over the VW scandal have also mentioned the forthcoming NOX testing, so it's not speculation or scaremongering.

Owners are quite within their rights to wonder how this will directly affect them, their cars value and if their car will be able to meet any new testing the UK government will be introducing.

[Clunkclick]

I would assume there's a lot of difficulty producing a system that's light, efficient and reliable in something as small as a car plus the benefits are not as likely as large either, gas turbine systems have a large drop off in efficiency when they're not running at their peak speed which standard car engines do not suffer as badly.  

 

I agree it makes sense to split the engine and the propulsion system and I'm sure we'll see it in time, Jaguar had a concept car that used a pair of gas turbines with four electric motors:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

 

The FIA WEC cars have been progressing with increasingly powerful electric systems and smaller petrol/diesel engines, I wonder how far they'll go as there's a lot of performance potential in essentially having an electric system when the combustion engine is purely producing power.

 

Have the details of the recall being confirmed?  I've seen a few references saying the 1.6TDI will need hardware changes but not the 2.0 TDI but I can't see a source for that.

 

John

Whilst they're at it, of course, creating hybrids based on de-coupled highly tuned air cooled motorcycle four-stroke engines as generators for a sodium/sulphur + Lithium battery combination mediated powertrain (All current technology) , with all the weight saving, reduced warm-up times and weight saving that carrys with it, they could also address the energy wastage and pollution caused by conventional largely  friction based braking systems and look into energy supplementation, at high speed, using ram-air, and, at rest, solar cells t'on roof and bonnet (Again, all within current technological grasp).

 

Trouble is, it takes a war for the rapid adoption of technology like that, and the global economy increasingly is set-up for slow-step, trailling edge technological evolution based on maxing-out the commercial exploitation on each snail-step forward. I sure the planet will wait.

 

Nick

Edited 15 October, 2015 by Clunkclick

[Ootohere]

The Volkswagen Group keep putting forward 'Heads' of this or that,  VW North America, VW Europe, VW UK,

then each says,

'I am not an engineer'.  'I believe', 'as far as i know',  'as i understand it'  etc.  

 

THOSE QUESTIONING THE 'I AM NOT AN ENGINEER'  are 'NOT ENGINEERS', and that suits the 

UK & EU Governments.

 

They are still delaying, spinning, and as far as they can trying to keep the general public hearing VW SCANDAL,

missing the AUDI, SKODA and SEAT Scandal ftom the VOLKSWAGEN GROUP.

 

Bring on the Head of VOLKSWAGEN ENGINE DESIGN.  Put who ever in front of Committees that knows the answers.

[Breezy_Pete]

@ gadgetman

 

DPFs don't deal with NOx; only particulates?

NOx are gaseous molecules.

Are you sure European countries have NOx testing in their MOT equivalents? Even California doesn't.

[silver1011]

I'm going to have a stab in the dark here.

 

There will be no compensation.

 

Your car will be fixed for free, they'll make it as easy as possible for you to get the car to them and will go to extra lengths to minimise any inconvenience whilst it is being repaired.

 

Anyone who is expecting a partial refund on the purchase price or a goodwill gesture towards their cars reduced value will be left disappointed.

 

The car is not right, VAG have agreed to fix it for free. Job done, car fixed, life back to normal.

[Ryeman]

Except for those involved in a class action.

[Llanigraham]

Not if any "class action" is thrown out!

[Ootohere]

Lets hear an announcement from a UK Government Treasury Spokesperson in how much the UK Governments money,

Tax Payers and Pension Funds are Invested with VWG/ Lower Saxony / Qatar Holdings / Hedge Funds invested with them.

 

Because bringing the VWG to its knees will cost lots to many that are not even car owners or drivers

of any vehicle, let alone one with a VW designed and built engine.

 

Just how much the UK / EU has invested with the VWG might be the real scandal in the end.

 

Car Supermarkets, Main Dealers, Independents and Finance Companies having even 10% knocked off the value of vehicles on their Inventory and balance sheets could make many bust. 

[silver1011]

Are VAG cars actually any cheaper now than they were a month ago?

 

Have used values taken a nose dive?

 

Surely forecourt prices fluctuate a few percent from one day to the next anyway?

 

I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that my Skoda is now worth more, the freeze on sales and the subsequent lack of cars means mine is now more desirable 

 

As for compo, Bob is no longer in town which leaves...

[mjh69]

Is it correct vw have stopped selling 15 & 16 plate cars now?? And one of my friends has bought a 64 plate octavia. Would that be a euro5 or 6

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[ExPassat]

Well Ive had a letter from Skoda Uk saying my 2010 1.6tdi Octy is in the frame and there will be a "technical solution". Personally I think the easiest solution would be a brand new Octy....

[silver1011]

A brand new car, no problem sir, they start from £16,285 OTR.

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/models/new-octavia-hatch/prices

[Llanigraham]

Are VAG cars actually any cheaper now than they were a month ago?

 

Have used values taken a nose dive?

 

Surely forecourt prices fluctuate a few percent from one day to the next anyway?

 

I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that my Skoda is now worth more, the freeze on sales and the subsequent lack of cars means mine is now more desirable 

 

As for compo, Bob is no longer in town!

 

No reduction in VAG sales according to todays Times!

[ExPassat]

For free, surely - that wouldnt sink the company would it?

 

On a more serious note - bloody nightmare for anyone working at a main dealer. Imagine all those cars coming in to be fixed, 

[Mark5290]

I believe I'm right in saying that neither US nor EU lab testing protocols test the engine's emissions at full power?

I seem to remember reading a post from an MOT tester, can't think of what forum it was though, that when he had checked a VAG diesel cars emissions, the car would not rev past about 2500 rpm.

In the old days of rotary and inline pumps, if we had a diesel that had failed it's emission testing, we would wind out the max revs stop screw, so the engine would not Rev as high just for the MOT, everyone did it and the MOT station knew you had done it, still passed it though.

[silver1011]

 

For free, surely - that wouldnt sink the company would it? 

 

On a more serious note - bloody nightmare for anyone working at a main dealer. Imagine all those cars coming in to be fixed, 

 

 

Assuming franchised dealers will be paid by Skoda UK to perform the recall work I'd imagine they'll be recruiting as we speak!

[ExPassat]

If they were clever they'd contract the work out to independents too. My local dealer is 30 miles away.

 

 

Perhaps theyd throw in a free set of tyres and shocks on the basis that the extra emissions could have corroded them?