Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[Ootohere]

No.  VW are to blame.

Martin Winterkorn seems to be the one all the blame is being directed to. 

He wanted too much they would not say no.

 

Frightened to tell Martin Winterkorn that it was impossible so the 2nd biggest Car Manufacturing Group never noticed that they had to cheat.

The German Government Departments that have Statistics on Everything never noticed, 

the other EU Government Authorities never noticed, 

the other World Regions including the US never noticed and no Dealers or Importers said a word.

 

So everyone was happy, 

Martin Winterkorn and all those at VW and investing in the VWG were happy, 

Pigs in Muck rolling in money.

[Breezy_Pete]

OK, thanks. Thought for a millisecond that you'd found something in the world that wasn't VW's fault.

[vrskeith]

No.  VW are to blame.

Martin Winterkorn seems to be the one all the blame is being directed to. 

He wanted too much they would not say no.

 

Frightened to tell Martin Winterkorn that it was impossible so the 2nd biggest Car Manufacturing Group never noticed that they had to cheat.

The German Government Departments that have Statistics on Everything never noticed, 

the other EU Government Authorities never noticed, 

the other World Regions including the US never noticed and no Dealers or Importers said a word.

 

So everyone was happy, 

Martin Winterkorn and all those at VW and investing in the VWG were happy, 

Pigs in Muck rolling in money.

Brings back memories of the (W) Bankers around the world in 2008 !!  Still suffering from their greed  today.

Edited 9 November, 2015 by vrskeith

[Tony R]

This has already been happening with VAG/SUK moving to the using of less individual dealers and more multi-sited dealership groups and with other changes (forced taking of end of quarter stock) have resulted to Skoda being in the bottom few of what the dealership network think of Skoda as a franchise brand but is likely to get worse as dealers call for VAG to take the hit on forecourt diving values and lower sales.  

My dealer already moved to Dacia/Renault and no doubt glad they did and are particularly with Dacia brand are going great guns and retaining main of their Skoda customers who see Dacia-Renault as a replacement brands and with synergies resonating with what were Skoda's core values in the nineties and noughties. 

 

 

          It would be nice if Skoda could be floated off  to be on their own. Apart from the Commie era, that company seemed to have had an illustrious history and capable of some excellent  engineering and products. I wonder how many  know that the original and founder  vehicle of the V W company ( Beetle )  was in fact a SKODA . It was  designed by Ferdinand Porsche when he was working at and for Skoda ( in 1933? )  and then scarpered with the design blueprints  to Germany and offered the concept to A H, thus the Peoples Car was launched, stolen from Skoda.  All this came as a surprise to me  and when the Octavia was launched in the UK in late 90's I went to a launch day  at the Skoda  dealers in Greenford where there was a person from Skoda UK H O, with whom I engaged in conversation. I asked him if there is a book on the history of Skoda, to which he responded by going to his car and came back with such a book. He told me to go to a certain page and asked what the vehicle there was.  V W Beetle I replied, and he corrected me  by saying it was a Skoda and purloined by Germany with the duplicity of  F. Porsche!. That book at the time cost £25  so I did not buy it but presumably still exists?

[Ootohere]

So Greanpeace activists are outside VW HQ having a wee protest.

I wonder how they travelled there, on foot & bikes probably.

[vrskeith]

So Greanpeace activists are outside VW HQ having a wee protest.

I wonder how they travelled there, on foot & bikes probably.

VW Camper Van- powered by Porsche or was it Jamie Oliver on another sugar protest.

[P6bJOHN]

Could they use their wee protest to make Adblue?

 

 

I'll get my coat.

[Ootohere]

Generous. Not.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34763777

 like they are weeing on their customers.

 

Offers already in the US,

and in meetings in the EU thinking what the least they can get away with in which markets it seems.

http://theguardian.com/business/2015/nov/09/vw-repair-germany-540000-cars-hardware-changes

[KBPhoto]

The gift of a voucher / card / whatever that can only be spent at VW (or Skoda / Seat?) dealers means that $1000 to the customer probably equates to about one third of that in actual costs to VAG.

Good way to make it seem like the amount given in compensation has a higher value than perhaps it does and protect VAG from potential bankruptcy.

[StuartAB]

The gift of a voucher / card / whatever that can only be spent at VW (or Skoda / Seat?) dealers means that $1000 to the customer probably equates to about one third of that in actual costs to VAG.

Good way to make it seem like the amount given in compensation has a higher value than perhaps it does and protect VAG from potential bankruptcy.

It's $500 to spend with VAG garages and $500 to spend anywhere, and no requirement to sign away any rights to sue, etc.

 

I'd be happy with that for the UK.

 

Stuart

[warley]

Could they use their wee protest to make Adblue?

 

 

I'll get my coat.

Only if YOU'RE IN a desperate situation.

[warley]

It's $500 to spend with VAG garages and $500 to spend anywhere, and no requirement to sign away any rights to sue, etc.

 

I'd be happy with that for the UK.

 

Stuart

There seem to be around ten UK law firms touting for business if you google "Volkswagen claims" and I reckon they will be expecting to milk more than $1000 for thememselves aside from what they will want for the owners.  I think that VW should offer a generous (very) trade in deal for a new car if you sign a bit of paper to say that is the end of the matter. At least that way they can go on making cars without big production cuts - if that is important to them. I think many owners would go for that rather that get some short term compo and a repaired car with unknown future reliability. I would be thinking of a new VW for 25% less that 2 months ago with a trade-in figure at august 2015 values. That would probably retain those people as future customers.The alternative would be so see a lot more customers in court. That would probably not retain them as future customers. VW need to look to the future now, it's only just begun!

[seboni121]

Id have a gte in a whisper !! Where do i sign the gagging clause

[Ootohere]

They keep giving figures of vehicles affected, 

but maybe many less than half are a vehicle owned by a private individual or owned outright and not with some finance on it.

 

Many vehicle will belong to financial Institutions, bought for Hire, Lease, Fleet on Borrowed money,

much borrowed from VW Finance and they (VW) borrowed the money in the first place.

Many of the Affected Used vehicles will be sitting at Dealerships or In Trade, and VW will own many of those, 

and VW Group owned Companies will own many.

 

It is a Money go round for VW, and lots of Gesture Goodwill even in the US will be paid to Companies not Individuals.

Not that Companies should not be compensated, but if VW is paying out to its self and saving Taxes because

of losses it is going to still all be a con.

[StuartAB]

The bottom line is that my Superb runs as well as it did three months ago, with an excellent economy/performance balance. I don't plan to sell it for another four years, when it will be eight years old, and I don't plan to let them tinker with it. As I use a VAG specialist independent garage, that's not an issue.

[Ryeman]

The bottom line is that my Superb runs as well as it did three months ago, with an excellent economy/performance balance. I don't plan to sell it for another four years, when it will be eight years old, and I don't plan to let them tinker with it. As I use a VAG specialist independent garage, that's not an issue.

......as long as maintenance of registration doesn't become an issue for those who don't respond to the recall.......there might be a bit of political pressure along those lines.

Time will tell.

[merseadog]

$1000 equates to about £660   

[Ootohere]

http://vwdieselinfo.com

 

Lets hope the VW site does not get hacked or have malware on it,

VW would be well and truly bankrupted.

[lol-lol]

News from FT.     http://www.ft.com/fastft/422171/fitch-cuts-volkswagen-rating-2-notches-bbb

 

Fitch cuts Volkswagen by 2 notches to BBB+ 

 

Make it three for three.   Fitch Ratings has followed rivals Moody's and Standard & Poor's and downgraded Volkswagen, the German carmaker at the centre of an emissions rigging scandal.  The company's rating was taken down two notches to 'BBB+' from 'A', Fitch said on Monday, as it warned that the fallout from the scandal could be "substantial".  It also put the company on negative outlook, paving the way for further potential downgrades.  Volkswagen, one of the largest carmakers, has been in turmoil since admitting it used software to manipulate the results of emission tests administered by US authorities.   Fitch said:

 

The downgrade reflects the corporate governance, management and internal control issues highlighted by the ongoing emission test crisis related to up to 11 million diesel-powered vehicles. The downgrade also reflects the expected direct and indirect financial effects from this crisis including recall costs, fines, lawsuits and legal claims worldwide as well as lost sales and revenue and probable discounts on vehicle sales. We believe that Volkswagen's credit metrics are solid for the ratings and can absorb several billions euros of extraordinary cash outflow, particularly as we expect fines and legal claims to be spread over a few years.  However, we expect the final cost to be substantial, although it is too early to quantify precisely the magnitude and timeframe of its consequences on the group's revenue, income, cash generation and key credit ratios. The latest findings unveiled by the company's ongoing internal investigation are increasing the damage to Volkswagen's image and reputation and could potentially lead to further legal claims from regulators and customers, further impacting the group's revenue and earnings.

 

On Bloomberg their hack Hans Nichols did mention re-engineering ie not just software, for some  of the 2 litre as well as the 1.6.

[vrskeith]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/us-vw-diesel-owners-receive-fuel-card-compensation

[warley]

 

On Bloomberg their hack Hans Nichols did mention re-engineering ie not just software, for some  of the 2 litre as well as the 1.6.

I had been wondering why the 1.6 "needs new injectors" and the 2.0 does not. The implication seemed to be that the 2.0. had different injectors but perhaps it does not - does anyone know? I assume the new injectors are to provide a cleaner burning spray implementation - maybe 5 different partial sprays on each stroke. Someone else suggested that the newer injectors may require higher rail pressure and therefore a new pump. Would the ECM be re-flashable with new hardware needed or would that have to be replaced? We simply don't have enough info from VW at present but they are supposed to tell the Yanks what they propose by 20th November so that may give a few clues as to what the EU fixes might involve.

[valep]

Just been on the news it my be 10 month before VW start the fixes

[Ryeman]

Imagine if you're in the position of having to trade in your car for an MPV type vehicle with a minimum of 6 seats and the Honda dealer doesn't want your car......or the px offer is too low.

It could be nearly two years of being in limbo.

For many that's a double penalty.

[Ryeman]

For those confused about what's coming

Just remember it's the DPF that suffers from short runs because it deals with the 'low combustion temperature' particulates....there being little in the way of NOx under such conditions.

It's the EGR that controls the 'high combustion temperature' NOx problem, and that is the emission that was a fraud on the test procedure.

It's going to mean MORE use of the EGR valve directing more exhaust gas for longer (remember the gas is 'dirty') to control the high temps to vastly reduce NOx from 35 to typically 12 times 'test' standards when on the road (which seems to be the ~ multiplier of other manufacturers )

The accelerated fouling of the EGR will almost inevitably be the achiles heel of the 'clean diesel' concept.

If I can get away with it, I won't be having it done if I intend to keep it long term.

If I chose however to sell or trade out I'll have it done simply for the general public's perception that it's been 'fixed up'......someone else can deal with the outcome.

Edited 11 November, 2015 by Ryeman

[ppejic]

Good morning Ryeman :coffee:

 

It is correct conclusion about EGR, but from what I have read, right timing of train injections can also have positive influence in reducing of combustion temperature.