Breaking VW Emissions Scandal -Mk I

[lol-lol]

The main concern should be not how individual owners have been let down by the VW test fixing in the US and Europe and the Rest of World but the consequences on the 92% of people who do not own VW diesels but suffer from the elevated NO, and PMs, over and above what VW fooled the test in to reporting as their NO output.  In the US VW diesel are 1% or less of the cars in usage, in the EU it is more like 8% in the UK and over 10% in many European countries.  The UK if DEFRA's calculation of 23,500 premature deaths UK and most of the NO coming from light diesels means significant amounts of this is coming from VW diesels though I do look forward to quantification of other manufacturers diesel and local authority action as to limit their access to big cities as Athen, Berlin, London and Paris and most other major cities are planning within the next 4 years so we can cut the death toll which puts most other causes of death in the shade but has been so sidelined for far too long and we should  praise the EPA and US scientist for finally bringing this to the fore to protect society.  Less me, me and more us, us please.  

 

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28245-nitrogen-oxide-is-not-so-harmless-and-could-damage-human-health/

 

https://consult.defra.gov.uk/airquality/draft-aq-plans/supporting_documents/Draft%20plans%20to%20improve%20air%20quality%20in%20the%20UK%20%20Overview%20document%20September%202015%20final%20version%20folder.pdf

 

3.1. Targeting the problem

27. We are taking national action to reduce NO2 concentrations, including to deliver effective Euro standards and accelerated uptake of both cleaner and low carbon transport. This is complemented by action at a local, community and individual level.

28. The failure of the Euro standards to deliver the expected emission reductions under real world driving conditions means that road transport is by far the largest contributor to NO2 pollution in areas where the UK is exceeding NO2 limit values. Figure 2 provides an overview of the breakdown of NOx emissions in 2013 and of the traffic sources. A more detailed breakdown of source apportionment by road link is available in the accompanying zone plans.

29. On average around 80% of NOx emissions in areas where the UK is exceeding NO2 limits are due to transport, although non-transport sources of NO2 are still considerable contributors. The largest source is emissions from diesel light duty vehicles (cars and vans) where both the emissions standards have had least impact and there has been significant growth in vehicle numbers over the last ten years.

Edited 15 November, 2015 by lol-lol

[ppejic]

Tommorow, Moonday 16.11. VW will present solution for 1.6 tdi engines

http://de.reuters.com/article/companiesNews/idDEKCN0T40DF20151115
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/vw-abgas-skandal-regierungskommissare-kommen-zur-probefahrt-nach-wolfsburg-1.2735678

sorry, but links are available in german language only :(

Edited 15 November, 2015 by ppejic

[lol-lol]

List of critical CO2 vehicles, model year 2016     (ie CO2 issue as well as the NO)

 

(No Skoda petrol models here as they have not got the cylinder de-activation engines so far.) 

 

Good thing for UK government is VW will be paying millions in extra road excise duty to them, probably, after the re-classification of the CO2.  

 

http://www.volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/news/2015/11/CO2.bin.html/downloadfilelist/downloadfile/downloadfile/file/List+of+critical+CO2+vehicles%2C+model+year+2016.pdf

 

Skoda Fabia R3 1,4l 55kW(75PS) 210Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F 

Skoda Fabia R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F  

Skoda Fabia R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F  

Skoda Fabia R3 1,4l 77kW(105PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F

Skoda Fabia Combi R3 1,4l 55kW(75PS) 210Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F  

Skoda Fabia Combi R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F  

Skoda Fabia Combi R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F  

Skoda Fabia Combi R3 1,4l 77kW(105PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F  

Skoda Rapid Spaceback R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F  

Skoda Rapid Spaceback R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F  

Skoda Rapid R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F 

Skoda Rapid R3 1,4l 66kW(90PS) 230Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐5F 

Skoda Yeti R4 2,0l 81kW(110PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ350‐6A 

Skoda Octavia R4 1,6l 81kW(110PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F 

Skoda Octavia R4 2,0l 135kW(184PS) 380Nm 4V TDI CR MQ350‐6F  

Skoda Octavia Combi R4 1,6l 81kW(110PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F  

Skoda Octavia Combi R4 1,6l 81kW(110PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐6F  

Skoda Octavia Combi R4 2,0l 135kW(184PS) 380Nm 4V TDI CR MQ350‐6F 

Skoda Superb R4 1,6l 88kW(120PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F 

Skoda Superb R4 1,6l 88kW(120PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐6F 

Skoda Superb R4 1,6l 88kW(120PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐6F  

Skoda Superb R4 2,0l 110kW(150PS) 340Nm 4V TDI CR MQ350‐6A 

Skoda Superb R4 2,0l 140kW(190PS) 400Nm 4V TDI CR MQ350‐6F  

Skoda Superb Combi R4 1,6l 88kW(120PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR DQ200‐7F 

Skoda Superb Combi R4 1,6l 88kW(120PS) 250Nm 4V TDI CR MQ250‐6F  

Skoda Superb Combi R4 2,0l 110kW(150PS) 340Nm 4V TDI CR MQ350‐6A

Edited 15 November, 2015 by lol-lol

[Ootohere]

Have a look at post #2963 on page 99.  

That letter includes the 1.4TSI ACT in the New Superb.

?

Did that engine not get fitted and available as an option in the end?

Edited 15 November, 2015 by goneoffSKion1

[lol-lol]

Have a look at post #2963 on page 99.  

That letter includes the 1.4TSI ACT in the New Superb.

?

Did that engine not get fitted and available as an option in the end?

 

You are right it is in the brochure and was tested by the motoring press a few weeks ago.

 

Darn good engine it looks too, neighbour got it in his Golf, fuel consumption not as good as he hoped but then he does quite short journeys and but the margin is the standard 20-10% less ie 50-ish he said rather than 60 mpg advertised.

[Ootohere]

As to the stuff from VW on 2016.,

do they mean Euro 5.5 Engines that were Euro 6 Emission compliant for 2016 but already in cars a few years before,

ie 2014 on.?

So Euro 5 / 5.5 that VW had CO2 Testing Results showing as being to Euro 6.  Now Irregularities showing that as doubtful.

http://volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/news/2015/11/CO2.html

[lol-lol]

As to the stuff from VW on 2016.,

do they mean Euro 5.5 Engines that were Euro 6 Emission compliant for 2016 but already in cars a few years before,

ie 2014 on.?

So Euro 5 / 5.5 that VW had CO2 Testing Results showing as being to Euro 6.  Now Irregularities showing that as doubtful.

http://volkswagenag.com/content/vwcorp/info_center/en/news/2015/11/CO2.html

 

2016 models usually the one that come from the factory from May the previous year ie from May 2015 but that does not mean that MY2015 or MY2014 are not also involved especially if the engine etc is the same spec as MY2016.

[ppejic]

Tommorow, Moonday 16.11. VW will present solution for 1.6 tdi engines

http://de.reuters.com/article/companiesNews/idDEKCN0T40DF20151115

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/auto/vw-abgas-skandal-regierungskommissare-kommen-zur-probefahrt-nach-wolfsburg-1.2735678

sorry, but links are available in german language only :(

"The commissioners can be reimbursed Rapport regularly from carmaker. The appointment on Monday is particularly important. Then VW will presented a solution for the mid-size 1.6-liter diesel engine according to research by the Süddeutsche Zeitung, NDR and WDR. With a test vehicle that control the inspectors themselves, though not over hill and dale. They should be convinced that now everything is above board. No manipulated measurement results more, but also no restrictions on driving pleasure.

The government commission consists of scientists and experts of the Berlin Department of Transportation and the Federal Motor Transport Authority in Flensburg. It is headed by State Secretary Michael Odenwald. That's Dobrindts man for fire service jobs, which kicks in when there is a fire. Whether on the Berlin airport or at VW. The group has already presented Odenwald and his commissioners a solution for the 2.0-liter diesel engine. Since it does not have enough of the software to change anything. In the 1.6-liter variant that is according to reports from Group circles different as must also be done on the engine itself. However much it is not, in any event, no Adblue catalyst was needed, as experts had speculated."

[Breezy_Pete]

Anyone want to have a crack at interpreting that:

 

"With a test vehicle that control the inspectors themselves, though not over hill and dale"

 

into something that sounds less dodgy!

Edited 15 November, 2015 by Wino

[ppejic]

that is Google translate but probably meaning EU  indoor testing norms.

Edited 15 November, 2015 by ppejic

[Ootohere]

Odd.

The Head of VW USA lost his job, the Head of Skoda was going to take it over, and then he left VW before ever doing it,

& yet VW can get their lying cheating selves organised and making full page adverts apologizing and goodwill gestures in the US, 

and in the home market in Germany while they just dither in the RoW.

http://theverge.com/transportation/2015/11/15/9739960/volkswagen-apologizes-with-full-page-ad-in-dozens-of-newspapers

[vrskeith]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/vw-emissions-scandal-vw-buy-back-cars-co2-irregularities

[fuzzybunny]

Hi guys, over a hundred pages on this thread, must be a record. Having followed it all the way through I have come to the following conclusions.

 

1. VAG deserves to be fined for using the cheating software and lots of VAG butts need kicking for allowing it to get to this stage. This seems to be in hand but could go on for years.
    
2. IF the speculation on this forum is correct and the VAG ‘Fix’ means that we end up with an inferior engine then the knock on effect will be felt in poor resale values. That means class actions against VAG and loss of customer and dealer confidence which will take years to correct. Also loads of customers refusing to have the ‘Fix’ leading to further problems.
    
3. The answer as I see it is for VAG to ensure that the ‘Fix’ actually makes the engines ‘slightly’ better so those affected (like me) will want to have it done. The ‘Fix’ should give a slight increase in bhp, (but not so much that it effects insurance), small improvement in mpg and reductions in CO2 and Oxides of Nitrogen. That’s way customers will want to have the Fix because they will have a better vehicle. Customer and dealer confidence will increase, no detrimental effect on resale values so no class actions. VAGs reputations will increase and we have a win all round situation.
    
4. Trouble is that it will take at least 6 months to work out the Fix and do the testing to make sure it works. Plus a further 12 months to apply it to all the affected vehicles. In the meantime speculation will increase and folks will assume the Fix will be detrimental. VAG need to reassure affected owners NOW that their engines will be just as good if not better after the fix and perhaps issue some preliminary engine stats before and after so we can see the slight improvement.
    
5. Of course this assumes that VAG can actually provide a Fix that will make the engines better. I would hope that technology improvements means that this is possible. Because if they can’t then we are all jiggered!

 

Cheers

Edited 16 November, 2015 by fuzzybunny

[Ootohere]

^^^^ 102 Pages on VW and 11 Million vehicles.

 

There are 94 pages just on the Mk7 Golf R and only a handful of owners of them on Briskoda.

Lots of pages on the Audi RS3, and even less here have one of those.

[vxh26]

Hi guys, over a hundred pages on this thread, must be a record. Having followed it all the way through I have come to the following conclusions.

<SNIP>

What exactly constitutes a "worse" and a "better" engine?

 

As I understand it the issue is that VAG have used software to detect that an emissions test is being conducted on the engine and to reduce levels of certain pollutants such as nitrogen oxides.

 

I suspect that VWs "fix" will be to remove the relevant code and to make changes to the engine to reduce emissions to approved levels.  This is "Good".  VW's cheat software was "Bad".

[Pheasantplucker57]

Panorama BBC 1 tonight, (Mon 16th Nov) 8.30pm; The VW Emissions Scandal. Sorry for the late post, just noticed it.

[gadgetman]

Panorama BBC 1 tonight, (Mon 16th Nov) 8.30pm; The VW Emissions Scandal. Sorry for the late post, just noticed it.

Now changed to Terror in Paris instead.

[Ryeman]

What exactly constitutes a "worse" and a "better" engine?

 

As I understand it the issue is that VAG have used software to detect that an emissions test is being conducted on the engine and to reduce levels of certain pollutants such as nitrogen oxides.

 

I suspect that VWs "fix" will be to remove the relevant code and to make changes to the engine to reduce emissions to approved levels.  This is "Good".  VW's cheat software was "Bad".

"......make changes to reduce emissions to approved levels". This is good?.

For my engine the declared 'fix' is a simple software adjustment .......this is BAD.

NOx reduction on my 2.0L 140TDI means more exhaust gas recirculation more of the time resulting in a clean engine (dirty EGR/reduced lifespan) with less power/torque - economy(?).

Living in the country....no thanks!

[mjh69]

I agree. I for one wont touch the fix until i no exactly whats going to be the effects. And if its less power and torque then ill go with the solicitors cos it wont be the car i bought

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Ryeman]

I agree. I for one wont touch the fix until i no exactly whats going to be the effects. And if its less power and torque then ill go with the solicitors cos it wont be the car i bought

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

If you've got the printed brochure, you have the legally contestable proof they are looking for.

[fuzzybunny]

Panorama BBC 1 tonight, (Mon 16th Nov) 8.30pm; The VW Emissions Scandal. Sorry for the late post, just noticed it.

Repeated on Friday night at 12.15am BBC2 but may be replaced again by the Paris program.

[vxh26]

Any "Class action" in the UK will presumably be pursued under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. This is not the same situation as in the barking mad litigious USA.

 

Amongst other things, this means that exemplary damages will not be available and that damages awards must be "compensatory". Therefore anyone claiming will have to demonstrate genuine financial loss - not emotional distress. There will be no "Jackpot" style windfalls although the parasitic Legal Profession will doubtless do very nicely out of it

[fuzzybunny]

I notice that Slater and Gordon who are running a class action are trying to negotiate with barristers etc on a 'no win no fee' basis, (good luck with that!)

Essentially there would have to be a clear drop in resale value, (caused by the scandal), of your vehicle to make a claim.

Tricky to prove and would probably require Glasses guide and other experts to testify.

Could drag on for years.......

 

Of course I'm still hoping my engine will be 'better' after the fix, more mpg, reduced emissions and a couple more bhp!

I live in hope!

[05surveyor]

Of course I'm still hoping my engine will be 'better' after the fix, more mpg, reduced emissions and a couple more bhp!

I live in hope!

[05surveyor]

If the "fix" results in everything that you are hoping for, it raises the question of why the "cheat" was necessary in the first place.