Interestingly I've just read a couple of posts in the Yeti section where there is mention of cars being tested in the past and found to produce more power as standard than the manufacturers published figures. 

 

As I said there, I wonder if VW will try and use that as a "Get out of jail free" as regards any drop in power!

VW owners could fail MOT if they ignore recall ???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11952066/VW-owners-could-fail-MOTs-if-they-ignore-recall.html

'Is considering plans'.

 

These people Consider reducing Motorway Speed Limits to get the UK Pollution down,

& that was not long after they considered increasing Motorway Speed limits to get the UK Economy moving.

 

VW Owners vehicles can fail a MOT now with a DPF Removed, or many other reasons, 

so lets see what Proposals and then legislation they come up with.

 

First off they maybe need to tell the public and vehicle owners what the Defeat Device installed by VW has had on their 

Euro 5 Emission vehicles, 

and what the 'Fixes' are going to be, and what changes a vehicle might then have imposed on them by 'the fix'.

Anything negative to the performance, and who is guaranteeing that a owners has no losses financially,

is it the VWG or is it the UK / EU Governments that are requiring cars to attend someplace for the 'fix',

& are these people Licensed / Certified and Qualified by some EU Legislation.

 

..................

The Volkswagen Group will be required to establish 'Fix' facilities on Islands off the British Mainland

where they do not have ones currently, maybe take Mobile Workshops,

or they will be paying Travel and accommodations and loss of earnings 

to those getting a Ferry to a 'Workshop' for the the Qualified Technicians to carry out work.

So Reuters have an Article saying that 'VW may offer discounts to owners in Germany of cars with the cheats'.

 

So if Germany make it a Requirement that cars must go in for the fix, and then the UK makes owners take cars in,

it will be sauce for the goose.

 

It looks like VW still think they can get out of things cheaply, bribe German owners, 

ignore other EU owners concerns, or treat them differently.

They might think or know German Owners will stick with them and play the game, 

obviously time will tell.

 

Maybe the 1.6 TDI's are the big problem, and they can not economically get them OK with a simple 'Fix'.

 

.........

Protecting the premier VWG Brands of Audi & Porsche's reputation seems really to be the thing causing concern to VW, 

as though they never used the Same engines and Software in some Audis.

Power isn't going to be an issue unless hardware is changed so 2.0l's will be fine. Euro 5 isn't bothered about what happens above the very slight applications of the throttle that are needed for the very slow acceleration cycles or to maintain the set speeds.

 

VW will not need to nobble what happens at wide open throttle or at any throttle settings above those used during Euro5.

 

What is in question is can driveabilty and economy be retained at the throttle settings used during the Euro 5 tests when possibly more use of EGR/SCR/Breathing techniques will be used as they are during the DYNO map.

 

Lee

VW owners could fail MOT if they ignore recall ???

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11952066/VW-owners-could-fail-MOTs-if-they-ignore-recall.html

 

Typical MP bluster.

 

What are they going to do about all the other manufacturers cars (if they are so concerned about the environment) that emit well above the test limits in real world use and the older vehicles which are the real culprits?

 

And when MOT's are stricter and have more sophisticated emissions testing equipment what levels are they going to use as a pass because they ain't going to be able to replicate the values obtained in the labs as per current Euro testing or when testing moves to "real world"?

Power isn't going to be an issue unless hardware is changed so 2.0l's will be fine. Euro 5 isn't bothered about what happens above the very slight applications of the throttle that are needed for the very slow acceleration cycles or to maintain the set speeds.

 

VW will not need to nobble what happens at wide open throttle or at any throttle settings above those used during Euro5.

 

What is in question is can driveabilty and economy be retained at the throttle settings used during the Euro 5 tests when possibly more use of EGR/SCR/Breathing techniques will be used as they are during the DYNO map.

 

Lee

 

Maybe, but why did they use the cheat software to pass the Euro tests then? It seems (though we don't know for sure) that other manufacturers passed the tests without cheat software so why couldn't VWG given their size and expertise in diesel engine design and have to resort to illegal software?

 

I'm sure that you are right in your last sentence though. When I tested a 150PS Euro 6 diesel (and now own a 110PS) I was surprised at the lack of go at lower revs (I've had plenty of VWG 2.0 diesels over recent years) and had to really give it some gas to get it to go, once moving a bit quicker it was fine though.

 

I do notice this with my own Yeti, pull away at light throttle and it reaches a point where it sort of holds a steady state unless you put your foot down quite a bit harder. I've thought before that it must be something to do with the systems and software used to achieve Euro 6. I've not driven a Euro 5 110PS Yeti to compare with (I'd expect it to feel a bit more powerful and have better drivability) but I wonder if after the recall it could have a similar characteristic to what I've found with mine, albeit to a smaller amount. Purely unscientific of course  but we get our feel of a vehicle by how it drives not what is said on paper. 

 

My wife had a Mini Cooper a few years ago which supposedly had 120bhp. When you put your foot down it felt as though the engine was disconnected from the throttle and how much power was delivered was being decided by a committee, not a very nice driving experience at all.

 

She now has a Cooper S which is much nicer and there feels like much less intervention but it doesn't feel like 175bhp though.

Edited 25 October, 201510 yr by VAGCF

Running with the same calibrations as used in the type-approval tests would have negative effects on fuel economy and emission-control component lifetimes. Presumably they cheated to get better fuel economy figures, and not have to spend so much on 'better' (bigger/costlier etc) exhaust after-treatment bits and bobs.

 

Edit: actually, probably not the fuel economy figures, 'cos they would be based on the tested performance, I guess; under the 'test' map. Let's say 'real world' economy instead.

Can we have a rest from all this supposition. It's starting to drag on a bit, and as not one of us knows exactly what is going to happen, a period of peace sounds good. Until I see on here, or in the various forms of media, hopefully sometime in 2016, figures and personal accounts of what the " service action " has done to owners vehicles, I shall just keep on driving and not worry. There are many more things out there causing pollution for folk to talk about.

Stop bloody reading the thread if you don't like what you see!

Stop bloody reading the thread if you don't like what you see!

 

Exactly!

 

Just keep looking at the BBC news stories instead and come back to this thread in 2016!

Edited 25 October, 201510 yr by VAGCF

Thanks for that little gem. You keep waffling, and supposing, and I'll wait for the facts next year. Have a lovely Christmas, hope you get lots of anti rage pills off Santa.

Anti-rage! :clap:

 

I'm one of the most laid back folks on the planet who just happens to like to indulge in a bit of discussion now and then!

 

It was either that or Strictly!

Edited 25 October, 201510 yr by VAGCF

I think anzio might have been referring to my 'rage'. So I've added a friendly laughing smiley to that 'stop bloody reading' post to show that it was amusement, not crossness, that motivated my outburst.

Read the post above yours. You aren't on my Christmas list.

Wino, I've been around long enough to not let things bother me. No hard feelings.

:beer:

Keep smiling.

There must be a lot of owners and trade people who are now holding a depreciated asset and can't trade up (or out) because of the demand/supply imbalance.

That's why I think VW could go a long way to fixing that instantly by declaring VW's confidence in its own product and announcing a 5 year warranty......it would cost nothing..........or would it?.

?.......

What is in question is can driveabilty and economy be retained at the throttle settings used during the Euro 5 tests when possibly more use of EGR/SCR/Breathing techniques will be used as they are during the DYNO map.

Lee

To me that's THE question.......ancillaries lifespan.(hence the reference to warranty extension)

Running with the same calibrations as used in the type-approval tests would have negative effects on fuel economy and emission-control component lifetimes.....

Exactly

Comments have been made re stop the speculation, waffle etc as it getting boring. People have a right to be concerned as we may well have an asset depreciating more quickly than normal, may even have difficulty in selling and I sure traders holding large stocks of " mal-adjusted "  vehicles are rightly  apprehensive. That the government are threatening to fail vehicles that don't get recalled  indicates trouble lies ahead. And for some to say owners of vehicles which subsequent to recall/ amendment  should not be entitled to compensation from V A G  I would suggest is nonsense. In the Telegraph article  posted a few messages back, the Head of V A G UK said they did not set out to deceive  motorists, utter rubbish. That is exactly what V A G did and should  be held responsible  accordingly. I still think  the w/wide cost of fines plus the cost of  " repairs "  and the compensations awarded will seriously undermine the solvency of the organisation. Ma Merkel best tighten her purse strings what with 1.5 million refugees to cope with,  a failing V A G , and  falling tax revenues.

If the European Central Bank can bail Greece out I don't think VW is much of a problem...

The European Central Bank and others are investigating and also under Investigation on what had been borrowed already by VW to Finance lending money to lease vehicles where they may not have been entitled to borrow.

The 'European Investment Bank' (EIB) has been reported as possibly recalling loans because VWG's assets are not worth what they were believed to be worth.

http://www.eib.org

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Central_Bank

The European Central Bank is not there to act as 'The Bank of Germany'.

Greece is a State & a Country, 

The VWG are a rather mixed up German Head Quartered company where the Board and Senior Management seem to do rather well financially while 'knowing nothing' about the illegal activities of the company employees they are managing.

 

Confirmed today as still being the 2nd Biggest Car Manufacturer in the World by sales, 

so let them use their own assets or various divisions sold off to sort out their own illegal activities, 

and have their major shareholders shoulder the blame and financial penalties.

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34635468

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34572562

If you google

Millbrook PEMS. (portable emission measuring system)

You'll see what they are up to re on road measurements and thus what light diesel manufacturers are going to have to deal with.

The European Central Bank and others are investigating and also under Investigation on what had been borrowed already by VW to Finance lending money to lease vehicles where they may not have been entitled to borrow.

The 'European Investment Bank' (EIB) has been reported as possibly recalling loans because VWG's assets are not worth what they were believed to be worth.

http://www.eib.org

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Central_Bank

The European Central Bank is not there to act as 'The Bank of Germany'.

Greece is a State & a Country, 

The VWG are a rather mixed up German Head Quartered company where the Board and Senior Management seem to do rather well financially while 'knowing nothing' about the illegal activities of the company employees they are managing.

 

Confirmed today as still being the 2nd Biggest Car Manufacturer in the World by sales, 

so let them use their own assets or various divisions sold off to sort out their own illegal activities, 

and have their major shareholders shoulder the blame and financial penalties.

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34635468

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-34572562

Sounds good but not what happens in real life.... :sun: